cycling my tank

[Eddie]

Here we go, what are some good fish to cycle my 29 gallon tank? How many and how long will it take for optimal biological efficiency. Another question I have is, can I just throw in another sponge filter at any time after the cycling of the tank. I'm using a bio-wheel 170 at the moment.

[ronrca]

The best way to cycle a tank is using the fishless cycling method. The advantage of using fishless is being able to 'grow' a large bio filter to support the full capacity of your tank. To speed up the cycling process, 'seed' the filter or tank with filter media from an existing tank.

The ammonia you buy must be clear, non scent and doesnt foam when shaken. Just add 8ppm to begin with and in a couple of days start testing the ammonia daily. Wait until the ammonia starts dropping and keep adding ammonia daily. Now measure the nitrite. This is the longest stage of cycling. After a week of nitrite, also start measuring nitrate levels. Once ammonia and nitrite levels are 0, do a 90% wc and add 5ppm ammonia. After 24 hours test ammonia/nitrite. If both are 0, your tank is ready for fish!

Btw, what kind of fish are you planning for your 29G?

[Carol_Roberts]

Ammonia is the safest way to cycle a filter. After you have a cycled tank (filter) you can run another filter in it for a couple of weeks to "seed" it with good bacteria

[Eddie]

Well there is a local store here with a few blue discus. Don't know much about them but they look nice and I can't get any from anywhere else. I'm in the Azores Portugal. STRANDED OUT HERE WITH NOTHING!!!! It's cool though, he has plenty and they are very small. They seem to be healthy. Maybe not after the time it takes for me to cycle my tank. :(

[Eddie]

how much is 8 ppm?

[ed8t]

That's where you need the ammonia test kit. Ammonia concentrations will vary and it loses concentration over time, so I would mark down how much ammonia you added to get to the ppm level you need. Best to add too little to start off with and continue adding and testing to get to the ppm. You may want to experiment in a 5 gallon bucket first...that'll give you a rough approximation to the quantity you need.

[Eddie]

I do have an Ammonia test kit but just as far as adding ammonia to the tank. What is the correct amounts?

[ronrca]

As mentioned, keep adding ammonia and continue testing the ammonia levels until you get the 'target' level. Initially I start off with 5-8ppm ammonia. What kind of test kits do you have? Do they come with the plastic thingies? I use one just for ammonia. In a 20G, 1 squirt is around 1-2ppm I think.

[Carol_Roberts]

Add a capful of ammonia to the tank - wait 10 minutes and test the water. If under 5ppm add another capful of ammonia - wait 10 minutes and test the water. When the ammonia starts to drop I usually add a capful or so every other day to keep ammonia between 3 - 5 ppm. You do not want too much ammonia

[Eddie]

Thank you. Lots of good info. If I keep this up, how long will it take for my tank to be completely cycled. Just an estimate.

[Carol_Roberts]

4 - 6 weeks. It is not faster than cycling with fish, but you do get a larger bed of good bacteria at the end of the cycling period and you do not have to worry about dither fish bringing in parasites or disease.

[Eddie]

Thanks Carol! Sounds good. I actually kept discus about 6 years ago and I used fish to cycle the tank. The Discus did get ill and I really do think the fish I used to cycle the tank caused it. Good info :)

[Eddie]

got some bad news. impossible to find the ammonia on this island. I can't find any that are suitable. they all have surfectants or dyes. WHAT TO DO??? :confused:

[Eddie]

Carol,
How many tanks do you have? It looks like a lot. WOW

[Discusgeo2]

Basshead read this article in the Library on fishless cycling
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=25298

[Eddie]

Thanks, I have read that article already. I just can't find any ammonia here in the Azores with the perameters listed. I need ammonia with out dyes, surfectants, and perfumes. Can't find any at all :(

[Ardan]

If you can't get ammonia,
You may have to start with just a few discus, do wc's at least once a day or more, monitor ammonia and when it shows ammonia , do a wc


make sure ph is stable in wc water

It will take 6 wks or longer to cycle the tank, monitor for ammonia and nitrite.

The larger the tank the better for the discus as parameters change more slowly.
Too large a group of discus or too much food will increase the ammonia levels fast.

Use non iodized salt when nitrite appears at 2 tblsp/10 gal.


WHat is your ph? If its below 7.0 it will minimize the impact of ammonia on the fish. However nitrite becomes a bit more toxic in acidic waters.

wc's might be your best bet

unless you can get a cycled sponge filter from where you buy the fish :)

hth
Ardan

[Eddie]

I guess I'm a bit confused. If I need ammonia to colonize my filters why would I change the water to eliminate ammonia. Isn't that like a double negative. I know the fish won't stand ammonia so this seems like a problem. wouldn't this technic hinder the growth of my bio-filtration, thus causing perameters unsuitable for the fish. I'd hate to loose the discus in process. especially since the fish aren't that cheap here in the Azores :confused:

[Ardan]

You are right ammonia does affect fish, but ammonia is needed to cycle the filters and ammonia is reduced with wc's.


If you can't do a fishless cycle (no ammonia) you have to

1. use fish for ammonia, but keep ammonia levels low to help fish, but some in the water to help filters (lowest reading on test kit other than 0)
2. You can use flake food to cycle a filter with out fish, but
a. it does tend to smell and could result in bad bacteria (I have done it though)
3. to keep levels low to help the fish
a. keep only a small number of fish to start (maybe 3 or 4 in a 50 gal)
b. feed only small amounts of food to keep ammonia minimized
c. keep tank walls and bottom clean (siphon all waste and leftover food often)
d. wc's to keep ammonia very low

4. you can use other fish to cycle the tank, but then diseases can be introduded into that tank

5. ask the fish seller if they have a cycled filter or can put a filter in the discus tank for 2 wks to cycle it that they can sell to you with the fish :)

I have done it all of the above ways.

hth
Ardan

[Eddie]

sounds risky and tedious. I would like to get these fish before they croak at the dealers store but again, I don't want to jump the gun. I've cycled with other fish and my discus did get ill. It was tough getting them healthy again, so I will skip the cycling with other fish. The idea about getting the dealer to colonize another filter for sounds pretty reasonable. I'll think about it. I don't really have many options here so I might have to. another big thing is here on the island there are lots of power outages and I'm in the market for an emergency power box. If the power went out, the ammonia levels would get way out of range.

[Ardan]

Best of Luck
Sounds like you are thinking it through well and are being patient.


Cycling the filter at the dealer may be best (2 wks is usually sufficient) just run the new filter on the tank in addition to the current tank filter (don't stop any they have running). I think if you buy the filter there and the fish, the dealer would do it.

hth

yes a generator is handy :)

[Terrybo]

After reading this post, I realized that there is a very abundant source of ammonia available to aquarists. I did a web search to confirm my suspicions, and found the following website. http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml (go to the section titled "Sources of Ammonia") I've never tried fishless cycling-yet.

Terry ;)

[ronrca]

Ah yes! The 'other' source of ammonia! Suppose if you are in desparate need of ammonia, well.....must take whatever measuring neseccary! LOL!

[Eddie]

and what is the other source of ammonia?

[ronrca]

LOL! From reading the given link, urine is the 'other' source of ammonia that is avaliable to all aquarists! Kind of gross maybe but if you dont have a choice....................

[Eddie]

have you ever heard of this method working. what would be the ammonia concentration.

[ronrca]

LOL! I have never had to try it and only heard of it thru the link. This is where the ammonia tester is handy!

[Terrybo]

The author claims he has always used urine to cycle his new tanks. He says he uses "a couple of tablespoons".

Terry :spit:

[mattrox]

very funny reading.... :))

[Eddie]

I was thinking, How would it look, if your neighbor looks through the window and sees you standing on a chair, taking care of your business in the living room aquarium. Bad idea :o

[ronrca]

or your mom or wife! If they already dont think ur crazy, they will now!

[ed8t]

...if your neighbor looks through the window and sees you standing on a chair...

If I had to go that route, I would use a step ladder...make it easy for yourself, life is tough enough as it is (leverage is a good thing!) :)

[Eddie]

hey guys,
sorry to get off the funnies but, if your tank isn't fully cycled and your nitrates are getting out of control, what do you do? What can keep my nitrates down during the cycling process with fish in the tank? Water changes or what?

[Terrybo]

Yes - lots of water changes!

Terry

[Eddie]

I'm sorry. My NITRITES

[ronrca]

Depends if you have fish in your tank. With fishless cycling, wait! Wait! and wait until you get 20ppm nitrates. If your nitrates are not coming down, do a 75% wc.

[Eddie]

yeah, I've got 2 small discus in my tank. They are fine. They eat and run around the tank. They are'nt to comfortable when I do water changes though. They hide and it takes them a while to come out again. Anyways, the nitrite readings are not high but they aren't at zero. I do one or two water changes a day. about 10-20%. I'm I going in the right direction. Like I said the fish seem happy

[ronrca]

Keep doing wc's to keep the nitrites at a minimum. Right now your priority is keep in the discus alive and healthy.

About your wc's, are you aging your water 24 hours before?

[Eddie]

naw, I add chlorine remover and just go staright from the tap.

[ronrca]

does your ph in your tank match your ph straigth from tap? My discus never get 'uncomfortable' even when I do 90% wc. My water is aged at least 24 hours and heated to within a degree of the tank water.

[Eddie]

PH is exact and the fish are new so they may just need to get comfortable with the WC'S

[aziyaeian]

Can I cycle multiple filters in a same fishless tank?

[Tad]

Can I cycle multiple filters in a same fishless tank?

aziyaeian,
"Yes" you can cycle multiple filters with the fishless cycle approach!


regards,
Tad

[GrillMaster]

I tell ya what....I have a couple of silvers, an a clown loach...Its gonna be june before the thing is cycled with the wc's I'm doin.... :D ;)

[Azorean]

Hey Basshead:
If you are still looking for pure 25% ammonia with not added scents, detergents, etc. then all you have to do is go to the pharmacy directly across the court house and ask for "pure ammonia" . It will set you back e1.60 euoros and contains ONLY NH3 !!!!!!!!! Still waiting for an ammonia test kit so I can do the same things you are going.

Oh, by the way, I went to the Angra Pet Store which is called Amazonica and they have 2 50 gallon tanks but I didn't bother to ask. Very small fish collection but alot of supplies (except for the ammonia kit). I also went to the lady who imports the discus and ordered some plants from her. If you go soon you can have your new discus by friday next week.

Great talking to you. Great pics of your family. I hope they grow up nice and big !!!!!!!!!!

Azorean

[Poco]

I have started a fishless cycle. My question is should I take out the biomax from on aquaclear 110, as it is in currently.

Thanks

[Eddie]

Why? Its where the bio bed will be established.

[Poco]

Thanks Eddie. Newbie here, sorry about the silly question. I thought that BB will establish in the sponge, in that case should I max it out with bio max only. What is the best temprature for it?

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie. Newbie here, sorry about the silly question. I thought that BB will establish in the sponge, in that case should I max it out with bio max only. What is the best temprature for it?

Any media will do, the sponge, the biomax, the tank walls....any surface in the tank! Temperature, just keep the temperature the same as you would with the fish in the tank.

[Poco]

Thanks Eddie. your comments are very much appreciated.