New to Discus, need info.

[moonstruck]

I have decided to enter the wide world of Discus. Multiple reasons for this, but looks and price are two of them because I hope to breed Discus. No, I don't expect to do this overnight. :)

I spent a lot of time reading the site here before I ever came here to the forum. But now I am confused and need some help.

First, from what I have read here I understand that I can keep Discus in my regular water until they are spawning. Is this correct?

My water starts at a PH of 7.6 normally and my main tank is a 125 Gallon with CO2 so the PH drops to 7.2 to 7.4. My GH is 120.

That is the first of the questions. The next one is how long do Juvenilles take to mature? I was speaking with Seattlekoi.com about their Golden Sunset Discus and they offered 8 Juvenilles at $20.00 each plus shipping. I was thinking of doing this so I could give them a chance to pair off. If I could do it sooner with my current water instead of waiting for RO that would be nice so I can obtain the RO unit, etc.. while the Discus mature.

I know I'm going to have hundereds of questions and this definitely seems like the best place to get them answered. :)

[Carol_Roberts]

Your tap water is fine for rearing discus AND breeding discus. Depending on the strain your newly purchased discus may take about a year to mature.

[KD]

Hello and welcome Moonstruck
I am a newbie also I have had Discus in the past in NYC tap water and they managed to lay eggs- this was 12 years ago and I knew little about Discus. I never tested water back than. Now I have re engaged in the Discus hobby this past April with juveniles but did alot more research this time around. I have well water now that is Hard High GH & KH lots of minerals are good for growing out I have a PH of 7.8 to 8.0. The most important thing I have learned is a clean bare bottom tank. Why do you use CO2?
Now I think if I was definately going towards breeding I should have looked into a breeding pair and RO - Yes more $$$ but you put alot of money into rearing also and need tank space for all of them. On the other hand it is good to get some experience with juveniles before the venture of breeding- If you loose one it's less expensive and you learn something new everyday.
I beleive that a Discus reaches sexual maturity between One and Two years of age.
Another thing I have learned is to ask questions and make sure the person you are buying from knows what you are looking for and any questions you have about them (ie. color, parents, hormoned or not, age compared to size, blah blah blah).
I purchased all of my Discus so far from Cary at GLD- he's got a ton of patience and knowledge and his fish are awesome and healthy!
Some times breeders have specials on breeding pairs- keep an eye open!
You are right - You have come to the best place for answers- I am sure you will have more answers from more experienced Simply members!
This is a GREAT place!!!
I started with one tank and now have 4- LOL!!! I am sure you will be expanding also!
Anyways ENJOY that's what it's al about!!
Karen

[moonstruck]

CO2 is because this is a heavily planted tank. I realize most people recommend bare bottoms, but I expected that Juvenilles would do okay in a heavily planted tank, but that doesn't mean I am right. :)

http://enchantedaquariums.com/125/11-14.jpg

My tank is further planted now as I just recently added more vals and some other plants. This is my main tank, I also have 1 55 Gallon not in use as it needs the bottom resealed, another 55 Gallon housing two GSP that are being slowly migrated to full marine for a marine community, a 30 gallon I haven't decided what to do with and a 10 Gallon Quarantine tank.

The only place I have found the Golden Sunrise is at Seattlekoi.com. :( The person I have been emailing seems knowledgable, but that doesn't always mean anything.

The reason I was looking at Juvenilles is so that as they grow I could finish setting everything else up, but I'm not sure I would want 1 year olds. I think I would rather look for 1 1/2 year olds, but I believe at that point they have already paired off so I would have to look for pairs which almost makes it more worthwhile to wait and get a breeding pair. :p

[Carol_Roberts]

Juveniles discus do not grow well in planted, tanks with substrate. Grow them out in a bare bottom and add them to your planted tank as adults (or when you think they have grown enough) ;) I think Golden Sunrise is a pearl pigeon blood. You should be able to find them most anywhere - they are sold under a variety of names. You may well be able to find adult pigeon bloods for your planted tank. Post a thread in "Hey, I'm looking for. . . "

[moonstruck]

So, at 7.6 and a GH of 120 is good for Discus? That I didn't know. :)

Well, if this water is good then looking into a breading pair now would not be a bad thing. I just need to buy a big bottle of silicone and reseal the 55 Gallon I have spare. :)

Well, now I have to think because I really wanted to put some young ones in my main tank. I don't just want to breed discus I want them for "ME" also. :)

I'm one of those people that will read and learn on every fish, but the only fish I will keep or breed are ones I like. :)

[moonstruck]

Well, I went back the drawing board a little. I would like to know when spawning how long from the time they spawn to the time they are removed from the fry tank for a breeding pair?

It kind of comes down to money. I would like Discus, but I would also like to breed Discus. Now, as some one mentioned about looking into a breeding pair this seems like a good optoin. The problem is I currently only have room for one tank in the living room and I would like to keep the Discus there, but when spawning I know that I should have them in a seperate tank.

The trials and tribulatoins of fish keeping when it comes to money. :(

[Howie_W]

Hi moonstruck and welcome to Simply!


You've brought up some good points, and obviously you need to decide what you want to do first.

If you decide to start with juveniles, then the planted set-up you have is less than ideal compared to a bare bottom tank. Juveniles need to be fed regularly throughout the day, and will leave a heavy load of feces. With all the slate you have in that tank, food and excrement will easily get trapped, and foul your water, and or make it difficult to get at to clean properly.

If you decide to get a breeding pair, you'll still need a bare bottom set-up, and once you have wigglers, you'll once again need a larger bare bottom tank to begin growing out the new juveniles.

My two cents; I would go out and get a group of healthy juveniles and enjoy growing them out in a bare bottom tank. Once they reach maturity you may find yourself with a pair you like, or simply have some beautiful fish to transfer to your planted tank, or both! :)


HTH


Howie

[Stephish]

I like Howie's suggestion, especially where money's concerned. Grow out some juveniles in one of your 55s (barebottom). Put keepers in your large planted tank after they've grown out. If you end up with a pair, put them in your 30, and use a 55 for fry. I wish I had room for multiple tanks! :D

[RyanH]

Howie has given you good advice. If you want to breed Discus, a show tank is not a good place to do it.

[moonstruck]

Well, what I think I am going to do is hold off just a little while and pick up 2 more 55 Gallons. If I can find a deal like I found for the tanks I have then it will be sooner than later.

I live in a 3 bedroom and I am dedicated a full room (about 10x12) to fish. :)

In here I figure I can put 2 55 Gallons and then find both a breeding pair and pick up a group of Juvenilles so I can get experience on both sides at once and end up with a good group for my show tank. :)

The current 125 Gallon is going to become marine sometime during spring of next year as it is being replaced by a brand new 125 that will be installed in a full Wall Unit I am currently designing. :)

I have lots of plans, but they take time as everything is expensive. :(

I like all the advice I have recieved. :)

I also decided on this method because it gives me further time to do more research while I build stands and purchase the two tanks along with the filteration, heaters, etc... for them. ;)

[Cosmo]

Just out of curiousity, why do you want to breed in 55gal tanks? 20hi's or 29's are more common for breeding.. save your space so you have room for a couple of 75 gal grow out tanks after you've got some fry to grow... Howie's advice was right on the money :)
Jim

[moonstruck]

Well, 55 Gallons bare are only $89.00 and I have seen a lot of people simply put in a divider. That is What I was thinking. :)

[JeffreyRichard]

I am the contrarian here with regarding the husbandry of juvunial discus ... but let me offer my views.

Basically I'm in agreement with the information provide, with the exception of the following:

1) Juvenials CAN be kept in a planted tank ... while bare-bottom offers advantages regarding maintenance of a tank (easy of cleaning), there is no reason that a light to moderately stocked tank of young discus can't grow and thrive in a planted tank. A balanced tank offers advantages that a bare-bottom tank can't ... natural filtration and an overall safer feeling (for the fish ...) environment. Is this better? Don't know, but one can surely achieve success raising discus in a planted tank.

2) Juvenial discus DON'T require constant feeding ... sure, if your goal is to get the biggest discus in the shortest time, than you WILL need to feed heavily ... and will be required to clean regularly and to change lot's of water (bare bottom appoach is necessary). HOWEVER, healthy discus CAN be raised on two feedings a day. You won't get fast growth, but you are able to maintain a clean environment longer without massive water changes and lost of cleaning.

My advice is to identify your goals ... if you desire the planted tank/asethics, don't be dissuaded. Just realize your limitations (lightly stocked/slower growth).

Good luck
Jeff

[Ax]

Hi Jeff, I agree with you on the planted tanks. This is my 70 GL with 6 x3” four month old PBs. They just a starter Discus so don’t waste your time people looking for the floes and giving opinion. What I know is that they are feeling and growing great, yes it takes extra time to clean the tank, and I do a 30% WC daily, also you spend more time monitoring all the parameters (Iron, nitrates, phosphates, C02 and so on) because you have to take care of the plants as well. The end result is worth my time and for me this is the best way to relax after work.

Personal preference and time availability, that is all.

Best luck to all.

[moonstruck]

Well, I appreciate all the good information. I need to finish a few things on my 125 Gallon first then I have decided to go ahead with doing a breeding setup for Discus and to try my hand at it.

My reason for going breeding first is plain and simply I need to get the extra income coming in. I realize this is a time consuming investement and their is just as much risk of failure as of success, but it something I enjoy and want to do. :)

I will be back in the next few months with more questions as soon as I get my 125 Gallon finished. ;)