Curipera Wildcaught Spawn

[Tomsky]

Hi @All,

maybe someone remember, about one year ago I got 10 Curipera Wildcaughts and now I raise the first spawn.
Here are some pictures:
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G3d0101.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d0101.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d0201.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d0401.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d0402.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1301.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1302.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1303.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1501.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1701.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1901.jpg

all togehter still 16 youngsters, but yesterday the pair had a 2nd spawn (still 300 eggs)

Tomsky

[jeep]

Awsome!!! :thumbsup: Great photo's!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[ping]

Awesome :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Please keep us updated ;):)

[jim_shedden]

great photo's..........thanks

jim

[Discusthing]

Those are awesome looking Discus and great pictures. Where did you get the Discus? Good Luck!

[SHAWN WARDLE]

AWESOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PICTURES AND FISH. THE PICTURES SHOWS THERE IN A PLANTED TANK, IS IT SAND? ALSO WHERE DI DYOU GET THE BREEDING CONE WITH A LIP?

[jesse]

wonderfuuuuuulll! C'est merveilleux!
AMAZING photos!
Hope to do the same !
is it sand you have ? What kind ?
What is the size of your tank ? Do you use CO2 injection for your plant ?
Water parameters ?

happy new year,

Jess

[turkis]

Tomsky,
Those are lovely pictures, very nice discus with fries and congratulations.
Just keep up the nice work.
Mario

[Eddie]

Nice looking Wilds and the photos are the best ever. The 2 pics with the fry swimming in thier face are awesome :)

[heckelcrazy]

astonishing quality to both the pictures and the fish...that red eye curipera should be the "pin-up" fish for what all discus should aspire to look like in terms of shape, eye colour. eye size to body ratio, finnage and that colour oh man that is a breathtaking fish for sure.


Keep up the pics mate...the best i have seen by far!!!!


aran

[ozarowana]

Congrats..... sweet fish and stunning pics. Which camera are you using? Also what is the thing wrapped around the cone?

[Tad]

Tomsky,
Im virtually speechless :) ...Your photography skills are "A" Grade just like your Curipera...Congratulations as I know getting them to successfully breed is one hell of an accomplishment....
Best of luck with the second spawn and keep the pictures coming. I really would love to see the progression of growth and coloration of the offspring, so please dont forget to post updates as they continue to grow.

Regards :thumbsup:
Tad

[jeep]

If you're taking dibbs, I got 'em;) ;) ;)

[Elcid]

Well done man! That's just AWESOME! :)....How about sharing with us newbies the whole story of how you got them and have reached this apex?

take care,
Sandeep

[Mr. Limpet]

Tomsky, you should have entered some of those pics in the photo contest. Absolutely stunning, both the fish and the photography. Congratulations. Paul.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

Hi Tomsky,

Congurlation you got a successful spawn with wild discus. they are thinking they are natural habit. that you made them fool one!

keep up good job!

Good luck with the second batch of eggs!


Duncan

[DeaneSA]

Thankyou for sharing those absolutely amazing pictures - some of the best I've seen!

Please tell us more about the tank and water parameters.

Deane

[Ramon Anastacio]

Tomsky,
Yours are probably the best Curipera I have ever seen. Beautiful fish.
Congratulations on the spawn!
Ramon

[oodi]

Hi Tomsky,

As everyone else has already said... AWESOME PICS!!! And I agree with Paul... would have loved to see those in the photo contest!!

Judi
:)

[korbi_doc]

Congratulations Tomsky, this is a huge accomplishment indeed!! This particular fish happens to be "the one" that I dream of seeing in my tanks one day, as most in the forum are aware. I am so happy that you have done this, gives me hope that sometime in the future I'll be able to attain some of these gorgeous fish!!

& your pictures are amazingly gorgeous!! Great job!! Dottie

[bikhu]

Tomsky,
Great job all around. Those pics are tremendous. Please tell us about the equipment you used to get them and then send me some of those fish!!!!
LOL
Keep it up!
peter

[RichieE]

Every once in a while I see or read something in a post that stands out from the rest. This one has both . I went back to those pictures 4 times. Nice tank, excellent fish, beautiful pictures. Rich

[Rod]

Hi Tomsky,

Yes i remember when you first got those discus and i thought they looked good then, but WOW man they are looking spectacular now. Great photos and even better discus.

Rod

[Juan C. Nieto]

Beautifull.

Regards.

[monover]

Congratulations, you have a fantastic pair.

[Tomsky]

Hello,

thanx @all!


Where did you get the Discus?
I got the discus one year ago from Mr. Matthäus (www.amazon-exotic-import.de)


THE PICTURES SHOWS THERE IN A PLANTED TANK, IS IT SAND? ALSO WHERE DI DYOU GET THE BREEDING CONE WITH A LIP?

The bottom of the tank ist sand (diameter 0,1-0,4mm) The cone with the lip ist made by Aquatic Nature in Belgium, I bought it at http://www.aqua-portal.de/ABLAICHKEGEL+DISKUS


What is the size of your tank ? Do you use CO2 injection for your plant ?
Water parameters ?
My tank is 180x60x60 (650l), I use the CO2 injection from ELOS ( http://www.eloseurope.com/catalog/index.php?page=SHOW&psku=TREA50&htype=7 ), the water parameters are:
temperature: 28,5°C
pH 6,9
200µS/cm



Which camera are you using? Also what is the thing wrapped around the cone?
I use a Minolta Dimage 7i (5mio pixel, 7-optical zoom). The thing wrapped around the cone was a cable I used the keep the female in distaance because at the first spawn she fluttered a lot of eggs away with the fins. Now she "knows" it better and I dont need it anymore.

In the next days I try to make some new photos.

Tomsky

[roclement]

I am speechless...amazing! thanks for sharing!

Rodrigo

[Ardan]

Thanks for sharing the great pics! :)

Ardan

[bio new]

Wow! Awesome fish and classic photos. Post us more photos as the frys grow older.

CONGRATS!:angel:

[yippy]

:shocked: :shocked::shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

For once in my life Im speechless !!!!!!!!!!!

Theyre amazing.

Kerry:thumbsup:

[Tomsky]

Hi,

when reading your posts I allways go back to the first page and look at the pictures. I'm amazed as well. Here are some more photos (, but maybe not all of this high standard).

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1304.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d1305.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G5d0101.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G5d0102.jpg

next time I'll take some more of the fry (witch is now almost getting "round").

Tomsky

[Tomsky]

Hi,

here are some photos when I bought them (almost one year ago):

in the tank from amazon-exotic-import
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/buy_070204_01.jpg

in my planted tank
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/all10_150204_01.jpg

I could'nt feed them right in the the planted tank, so I seperated the discus in 2x5 in 2 350l tanks to let them grow up. I feed 6 to 8 times a day. At the end of last year I put them back in the (now less planted) tank.

Tomsky

[Discusthing]

Once again, awesome fish, awesome pictures! Thanks, you made my day!

[yippy]

Well now Im laying on the floor :blushing: lol

I just fainted and fell out of my chair because those fish & pictures are incredibly overwhelming:)

Kerry

[Spices]

Same here, Kerry! I'm blown off the chair! AWESOME WORK DONE, TOMSKY. I LOVE IT! Sweeeeeeeeet Wildssssss .....

[Spices fell and knocked her head on the floor.]

*Angie* :angel:

[nacra99]

wow Tomsky... your fish are awesome!

[Tomsky]

Hi,

I took some new pictures:

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d2901.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d2902.jpg

the youngsters are 25mm long and 19mm high.

Tomsky

[oodi]

Too cool for words!!!

Judi
:)

[goldengatediscus]

Beautiful pictures of some gorgeous fish!
Thank you for sharing!
Brigitte

[Spices]

SUPERB! Wow. I'm elated. I love this species of fish but seeing these babies really got me going ga-ga over them. Keep up the great work. I love to see them all grow, and in my custom-made tank just for them too (it won't hurt). :D

*Angie*

P.S. What brand camera do you use and what ISO speed? I like how your pictures enhances the fish natural colors. :)

[Tomsky]

Hi Angie,

I use a Minolta Dimage 7i (5 Megepixel, 7-optical zoom), mostly adjusted at ISO 100. Sometimes I use a 500W spot light.

Tomsky

[Neil1_2]

AWESOME.... for want of a better word!!

[Marian]

you left me breathless

[Tomsky]

Hi @All,

please let me know when you are ready to cope with the next photos, I'll take them in a few days (maybe at the weekend) :-)

sry @all for my english (I'm german)

Tomsky

[yippy]

Hi Tomsky,

I think I can cope with some more pictures now. :) My back is ok now - I almost broke it when I fell out of my chair after seeing the last lot of pictures. Could you let me know when youre taking more pictures??? I have a seat belt on my chair now so I dont fall out again. So now I can strap myself in before looking at the next lot of pictures if you give me some warning !!!!

Looking forward to seeing them !!!!!!!!!!!!

Kerry:D

[oodi]

LOL Kerry!!

I'm ready too!! Let's see some more awesome pics!!

Judi
:)

[yippy]

Yeppers Judi ! Im all strapped in and waiting in my "SAFETY COMPUTER CHAIR ".

Now wheres that Tomsky with his pics???? I cant sit here strapped in forever - I cant move about to do anything - lol

Kerry:)

[Tomsky]

Hi Guys,

I dont want to tax anyone's patience, but during the week my time is short measured. I promise the next photos for this weekend - for sure. So keep fasten, I do my very best!

Tomsky

[Tony_S]

Ive never been a real big fan of wilds....A few have caught my eye here and there.
I have to say though.....Your's are INCREDIBLE!! Ive looked at the pictures over and over again, and I have to admit...They are probably the NICEST discus Ive ever seen!! Wild...domestic...or otherwise!!
Shape...color...health....simply awsome!!

Tony
http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/_950/shock.gif

[Ushio]

Tomsky compliments for yours discus!!!!!! :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
they are simply wonderful! :rolleyes: ;) :)

[Chinaman]

would love to visit Mr. Matthäus (www.amazon-exotic-import.de) and buy some discus from him. I can just manage to drive to west germany from uk but i don't think i can drive to south germany..........

[Tomsky]

Hi,

as I promised I took some photos today. The spawn is one month old now (size vary between 28mm long - 21 high and 34mm long - 24mm high) they love enchytraeus, but I do not feed this every day.

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3501.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3502.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3503.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3504.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3505.jpg

Tomorrow I try to get some pictures from the pair.

Tomsky

[yippy]

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked2:


Lucky i have my seat belt on - lol - theyre amazing pics Tomsky.

can't wait to see some more of the parents !!!

Kerry

(On my way to Germany to kidnap some fish)

[Tomsky]

Hi Kerry,


Location: Surfers Paradise, Australia AND: On my way to Germany to kidnap some fish
I'm sitting relaxed awaiting you :-). My dog (with a noodle around the mouth) as well...

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/Nudel01.jpg

Tomsky

[Northwestcoastdisc]

AWESOME!! keep post up how the fry turn out!

Good luck

Duncan

[Tomsky]

Hi,

I took some new pictures of the curipera group and the tank

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_01.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_02.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_03.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_04.jpg



Tomsky

[Northwestcoastdisc]

They are looking very happy and comfortable in your tank. Keep up your work is so hard!!!

Please post up the fry turn out.

good luck

Duncan

[Tomsky]

Hi,

some more pictures young fishes. As you can see they get their red eyes :-)

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3601.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3602.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d3603.jpg


Tomsky

[yippy]

Awesome pics AGAIN Tomsky. I love your tank set up and the fish seem to love it too. Could you send me a little bag of those babies????

Your dog is cute too - is it a doberman or something? Whats his/hers name? Noodles??????

Kerry:)

[igotworms]

What kind of light you got on the tank? BTW discus and fry look AWSOME!!!

[Tomsky]

4x58W (2 Arcadia Freshwater and 2 Sylvania Aquastar)

Tomsky

[Tomsky]

Hi @All,

new pics today:

01-29-2005

5 weeks

5 weeks after free swimming the discus have an average size of length 36mm - heigth 27mm (whereas the largest have length 40mm - heigth 31mm and the smalest have a length 32mm - heigth 23mm).
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4201.jpg

At this picture you see the size- proportion very clear - the heater has a diameter of 22mm.
2 of this 16 fishes I will keep, 14 will go to my brother (at a size with 10cm)..
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4202.jpg


This is one of the biggest. Astonishing ist the colouring, witch shows the red tinge already...
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4203.jpg


This four pictures are selected out of 60 I took. I deleted 40 immediately after the first view, because the were fuzzy. To show reasonable pictures, you need a lot of shots to keep the good ones. It is not easy to photograph young disus fishes because they are always in motion.
The little dots at the picture are daphnia witch I fed this day hourly.
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4204.jpg



Hi Kerry,

the dog's name is Dusty (as dusty as she always is). The dog is a doberman/rodweiler mixture, but very lovely).

Tomsky

[bio new]

Hi,

Nice young discus Tom. I hope, one day ny discus will spawn.

CHEERS!

[PaintballFan07]

Hi,

I took some new pictures of the curipera group and the tank

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_01.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_02.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_03.jpg

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/230105_04.jpg



Tomsky
Hi, My friend would like to know the name of the plant you have in your last pic of ur tank, n to the far left of the tank. Great looking tanks and discus.

[Wahter]

Hi, My friend would like to know the name of the plant you have in your last pic of ur tank, n to the far left of the tank. Great looking tanks and discus.

Looks like a variety of vallisneria, probably gigantea (jungle vallisneria). Fairly easy to keep, commonly found, and not pricey. A single plant should cost around $1.00US at chain stores such as Petsmart. Under good conditions, the plant can grow out to be around 5+ feet long. I used to have some vallisneria with discus, but they grew so fast and so long and kept blocking out the lights from the shorter plants, I traded them all into the local shop for store credit.

Here's some more info:

http://www.tropica.com/productcard.asp?id=054

[Spices]

Hi Tom:

I'm in love with the last few tank photos you've posted. I just wanted to tell you that. LOL

Man, what a dream! Keep up the great work and please post more photos and give more details too. And let me know when you will be visiting NYC, particularly the Brooklyn area. ;)

[PaintballFan07]

Looks like a variety of vallisneria, probably gigantea (jungle vallisneria). Fairly easy to keep, commonly found, and not pricey. A single plant should cost around $1.00US at chain stores such as Petsmart. Under good conditions, the plant can grow out to be around 5+ feet long. I used to have some vallisneria with discus, but they grew so fast and so long and kept blocking out the lights from the shorter plants, I traded them all into the local shop for store credit.

Here's some more info:

http://www.tropica.com/productcard.asp?id=054
Thanks Wahter

[Sergey]

Guys,

Want to see some more amazing tanks? Check this out:

http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/References.htm

[Tomsky]

Hi Guys,

the plants are vallisneria gigantea (almost 2metres long).
Her some new photos (from last weekend):

02-04-2005

6 weeks


http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4801.jpg
The fishes have an average size of length 39mm - heigth 31mm (whereas the largest have length 46mm - heigth 38mm and the smalest have a length 33mm - heigth 25mm). At the moment they grow 4-5mm in average per week.

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4802.jpg
The fishes take all type of food, but at 80% they get ELOS sv.D.


http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d4803.jpg
The water I changed concerning to hardness step by step. The actual water parameters are:

temperature 28.4°C
electric conductivity 375µS/cm
pH-value 7.3
GH 7.84°d (1.9 mmol/l)
KH 5.28°d (1.4 mmol/l)


for about the next 4 weeks I'll be in Chile. Hopefully after that trip I can take new pictures ;-)

Tomsky

[DavidWong]

What can I say...Tom..!! All the superlatives had been used and I was to spare myself repeating those same words.

Do you intend to sell of any of them? How about shipping over to Malaysia ??

[Tomsky]

I thought there are a lot of discus breeders in Malaysia ;-)

Maybe with the next spawn I have enough to ship them, but not this time. For sure I keep some.

Tomsky

[DavidWong]

indeed they are plenty of breeders over here but thier focus is on developing new strains rather than keeping the wild discus.
infact there is little interest in wild discus as far as i can establish.

[Dave C]

I'm curious about the name "Curipera" Discus. They are fantastic looking fish but they look a lot like some wilds I got from David Webber awhile back. Those were called Red Santarem. I've seen Oliver selling fish called Curipera Discus but that seems to be the only source. I've also looked at maps and I can't find any mention of a lake or river with that name. Any info anyone?

[jeep]

All I could say is I've seen some Curipera that turn very red (almost blood red), more so than the Santarem which is more of a deep brownish/red. Both have the "eye-loop" but I think it's more fixed in the Curipera.

I think Oliver is the only first hand source for the true Curipera in North America, but his partners (or associates) also sell them in Europe (Germany?) from the same collection period. Dennis once told me the name Curipera was named after a "region". I can't remember for what reason they were the "reddest" of all the wilds, but like others it can be enhanced by color feeding...

[Tomsky]

Hi,

Oliver Lucanus (Canada), Mr. Ortlik and Mr. Matthäus (both Germany) share the same import (the same collection). There are no other importers worldwide, because it is not easy to collect them. Curipera is the name of a small lake near Alenquer with is opposite of Sanatrem. There is no river connection to this lake and also no real street. For this reason not many collectors go there. In the lake are a lot of piranhas so most fishes look like this:


Tomsky

[Tomsky]

Hi,

tomorrow I'll fly to Chile, I took some last photos before:

02-11-2005

7 weeks
http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d5401.jpg
The biggest have more than 5cm size.

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d5402.jpg
This week i almost had a dead. During water change one jumped out of the tank. I realized it immediately and put him back to the tank. He survived...

http://www.alenquer-curipera.de/gif/breeding/P1G4d5403.jpg
During the next 3 1/2 weeks I will be in Chile for mountaineering. My girlfriend will take care for the fishes, but photos I cannot actualize :-(


Tomsky

[Dave C]

All I could say is I've seen some Curipera that turn very red (almost blood red), more so than the Santarem which is more of a deep brownish/red. Both have the "eye-loop" but I think it's more fixed in the Curipera.

I think Oliver is the only first hand source for the true Curipera in North America, but his partners (or associates) also sell them in Europe (Germany?) from the same collection period. Dennis once told me the name Curipera was named after a "region". I can't remember for what reason they were the "reddest" of all the wilds, but like others it can be enhanced by color feeding...

I recall the wild Santarems on Mike Wells site. They were about as red as I've ever seen this type of Discus. He got those from Webber as well. Of course the assumption is that Mike colorfed them to get them that red. I also recall a discussion between Webber & Oliver on this forum (or some other Discus forum, don't remember which) where they were debating the existence of Curipera & the associated Discus. I think Curipera refers to a tribe of natives in the area. But I also recall seeing a photo of some elevated banks with a small pool within and hearing that that was Lake Curipera. I wish I knew where that link was. But from every map I can find and every search I've tried there is no indication that a region, river, lake, stream is named Curipera. The only source of information about the existence of anything named Curipera is from Oliver. That doesn't mean I don't believe it to exist, but it does raise doubts about it. It could be that Curipera Discus are simply nice red Santarems. That wouldn't affect their beauty or value in my eyes but it does make the naming a bit suspect.

[jeep]

I remember that discussion now. I believe it was here but the photos will be long gone. Yes the Sants are VERY close. Mine are domestic, but when I look at a Curipera up close, they are virually the same except the Curipera is slightly more red based (without color feed).

If I remember correctly, the photograph I saw of the lake showed it to be actually very small. I think Dave suggested that it was flooded at certain times of the year, and when the water receeded it left a small amount of isolated discus and piranhas. The argument on one side was that the lake had possibly a red tint (tannins?) and was completely isolated, and therefore the discus were in-bred and achieved the color through evolution. The other side of the argument was that total isolation was impossible because the gene pool would be too small to maintain a healthy population (let alone harvesting), and that the lake was periodically flooded and allowed other fish to populate the lake. The problem with that is why would there be no other species unless the Sant is the only species in the entire region :confused:

[Spices]

I remember that. That was a long 6 page or more battle of war between Dave Webber, Oliver showing the many photos of many fine Curipera fish from Mary, Oliver, Dave Webber, and I think Tristan (sp?) of Canada. Since that time, I've been searching and asking about the area named Curipera and even the quoted Indian tribe called such and no one seems to know what, who and where; interestingly enough the folks I've asked these questions to are from Brazil. :confused:

Like you said, Brian & Dave C, they're still wonderful discus.

P.S. I'm lost without them. It would be great if Tomsky would import them for us folks in USA. :D

[jim_shedden]

absolutely a great thread..................thanks

jim

[DavidWong]

good luck to your trip to Chili........

do keep us updated the minute you are back in 3 1/2 weeks time.

i am still very keen to get some from you in the future if i can afford the price.

[Tony_S]

Here's the thread in question...some heavy readin' for ya....
Its kind of tough to follow now that the quotes arent highlighted anymore...but its worth the trouble....Like Cary said, some good CHIT!!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=28702

Tony

[Spices]

LOL... That's some funny chit-chat, TonyS. :D

In any event those Wild "Curiperas" sure do intrigue us all. :) :angel:

*Angie*

[bryalk1]

congratulations, beautiful fish and fry
bryant

[Cosmo]

Tomsky...

Awesome achievement, and beautiful pics and fry :)

Jim

[wildthing]

Nice pics, it will be interesting to follow their progress as they mature and color up.

'Curipera' comes from the tribe name 'Cuipuia'.
the lake shown in pics as I recall was , according to the german guy who posted them, 1k long and 100 meters wide with 10' banks. It looked like an oxbow lake. The average flood height in that ( Alenquer) region is 35'-45' with extra high floods every 10 or so years according to ElNino/La Nina and deforestation (smithsonian ) Average rain season rainfall is about 15'. Smaller rivers often change their courses to create or remove that kind of lake because of the poor nature of the soil there and the incredible volumes of water passing over as floods drain.
It makes no sense to imagine this is cut off from the rest of the region or that its discus population is isolated long enough for speciation. It almost certainly recieves new fish each season as they move into deeper channels as floods recede.
Domestics, all derived from wilds, have been selectively bred for 50 plus years without managing to create a new species or even sub-species.
No doubt there were some very nice Discus found there, and Oliver knows how to market a fish, but they were not any new variety, just a new name.
From many of the pictures of them I have seen they were also a mix of blues and browns all showing red characteristics and differing degrees of striations, some with and some without red tones in the fins or 'spectacles' some with a pronounced 5th bar, others without etc.

This is a good link to help understand Allopatric speciation

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/S/Speciation.html

[jesse]

Wonderful young fish!
You are a great breeder!
Hope you have a wonderful trip to Chile.

A few questions:
You use a great sand bottom..
Here is the theory I would like to verify:
And with a sand bed, we have anaerobic bateria which live in it. These bacteria normally transform nitrate into nitrogen and close the nitrogen cycle.

What I would like to know is:
1- how often do you make water changes ?
2- Have you a very low nitrate level in your tank even after 1 week or more without changing the water ? How much nitrate do you have ?

thanks,
Jess

[raglanroad]

What could I add to the comments? Lots !! Got ten pages to rave on about it? Anway, I think the idea of your doing a write-up is super. You already have the pics so well done. Congatulations, to a master of fishkeeping.
Dave

[raglanroad]

I contacted the exotic imports today, and their answer about a different question also indicates that these fish come from Oliver Lucanus, which he had earlier, $300, 6 @ $250.http://www.pricenetwork.ca/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27264&perpage=158pagenumber=1
It might be of interest regarding species ID, that other fish sold are under common names, or names that people will recognise. They may have no relation to how Oliver thinks they are scientifically named. Further, since the scientists disagree on many subjects, hobbyists and even collectors, have a difficult time, and so sometimes a common name may be less wrong, as it has less accuracy implied.
The angelfish sold as "teardrop Dumerilii" Manaquiri, I think Oliver regards as Scalare. Whereas taxonomists call it Leopoldi now. Three species named, yet only one fish.And Dumerilii is not used anymore, being called not valid.This may help you about how Oliver uses these names. The species is no longer a valid name, yet it is on the stock list. The stock list itself would help you understand his usage, as almost every item has a descriptive part in the name, such as Scalare " Caqueta", and so on. I love these descriptions, as they are helping track down angel collection locations .
No problem, really. Sometimes people want others to know what they mean, by using the commonest usage name. Others want to use scientifically correct names.If you can figure out what the scientists say this week.

[raglanroad]

:o Just read the most interesting thread mentioned , with Oliver, and all you SimplyDiscus fans. Forget systematics for classifying, the fish, I need it to classify the arguments! As a no-nothing on Discus, It intrigues me when I compare the arguments regarding Angels and Tropheus. My conclusion is
this: even a beginner can see the valuable info given by each person, from the hobbyist level to collector, to wild fish breeder. Equally easy to see, is the contradictions each person has made in different ways.
Just as an example, why is Dumerilii mentioned so many times, when it not a valid name? I can understand if the person does not agree with the new classification that most accept. However, if the person is intending to refer to the scientists, then why not be in line with the views that one follows?
I think all attempts at DNA-based resolution of the problems will be a frustrating experience for all, as some evidence shows that the mitochondrial DNA methods have also been over-estimated, probably. Arctic Charr studies and some others have thrown a monkey wrench into the works. (static markers are now in question). Sorry for layman's lingo.
So , it almost boils down to a case of "I'll see it when I believe it" ;)
And I always remember that the more knowledge I gather, the closer I have to stick to "square one"- nice fish, Tomsky!!
I did love the wit shown by all, and again, almost each post had real meaning and information.
Now I will have classify each statement and cross-reference them. Or at least do a water change. And I had to do a an edit-post change real quick, too! :p haha, better to write when I'm awake. Dumerilii is now considered a synonym of Leopoldi.