Hello again! Ready to give this a go hopefully

[elpaninaro]

Good evening all,

Great to see everyone again. I was here in Feb 2004 to get help with my first discus tank. Ended up changing jobs, consulting and moving so it got put off.

I am finally relocated and in a long term position and place to live! Turns out it will be even better for discus than the old place- a nice quiet corner in the living room just inches from the bar overlooking the kitchen sink (easy water changes!)

Carol- I have not forgotten your great advice. And with some time to think I would like to pose a couple of questions before plunging in. I would rather not do this than do a disservice to the discus,

As a prelude, there is a BB 55 gallon standard tank full of water sitting in place as we speak. 2 Jager 250w heaters (last ones I could get here before the new ones come in which I have been advised against) at the ready- one in, one for the water change tank. Next week when I return from a 2 day trip starting tomorrow at the crack of dawn, water testing and fishless cycling to begin.

Now the questions- some to clarify points already here and others new,

1. Aqua Clear changed their number system! I bought a pair of Aqua Clear 50s- one to use, one as backup, thinking of the 500. I read the fine print when I got home (got these on sale, so no returns), these replace the old 200s and are rated for 50 gallons. Is it ok to use them both in the tank, or do I really need to go get the one big one? If I use them both in the tank, put them at opposite ends, yes? (note- charcoal bags gone, extra sponge in place, and intake sponge there too :) )

2. Feeding. I have good data on diets, but am I doing the fish a disservice to feed 3 times daily- once before work, once when I get home and then 10-20 minutes before lights out? I have seen everything from 2x - 6x per day for young ones. That is a critical point actually since I cannot break from work to feed them during the day.

3. Water changes- hate to go there since I know what people here think on that. Realistically I am thinking 3 times a week and 20-25 gallons at a time. It would basically be at least a 100% weekly change. Given space, time and aesthetics I do not see an alternative. It would be a 20 or 29 gallon tank alongside filled after each water change and then allow the water a day to age. I have the pond pump Carol recommended to aerate and transfer water efficiently from tank to tank.

4. Is this a bad time of year to buy discus? I figure I need a couple of weeks for cycling at least, but wondering if warmer weather is a better time for shipping. I can be patient!

Thanks for any thoughts. I was all set to turn this 55 into a community tank of tetras and the like, but if the above seems workable I am willing and eager to have a go at discus.

[hexed]

Hi!
Never forget what advice Carol gives you, I have not and now have 3 month old fry! ;)
Ok, I too have 55 gallon tanks. I would use both heaters in it. I have one on each end of the tanks. With two heaters it's easier to keep the tank at a good 84 degrees and the one lonely heater won't have to work as much. I had replaced heaters about 3 times and the last time I put in an extra and they are lasting longer (still going strong). You can always pic up another for the aging water off Ebay (they are much cheaper then a LFS. Are you sure you need to age your water now that you moved? Might not have to, you could use straight from tap like me, I would check your water perimeters.
I would also use just one aquaclear and pick up a couple sponge filters, using both might make to much of a current. My discus seem to spend more time on the opposite side of the tank where the aquaclear is. I still use the charcoal bag in mine because I still think it keeps the water clearer, even if I am unable to do a daily water change one day my water is crystal clear, but others will not agree with me LOL! I have one aquaclear and 2 sponge filters in each 55 gallon tank.
I feed mine 4 times a day. When I get up they get flakes, just before I go to work they get pellets (I put a lot in with my 3 month old babies cause they can't eat them until they soften), when I get home they get flakes and a half hour before I go to bed they get CBW (actually after the water change).
As for shipping I just watch the news and give the breeder the weather info and ask him/her what's best. I would not have them ship fish if I was having a snow storm LOL. But they usually pack the boxes really well so I have not had any major problems no matter what time of the year it is (knock on wood). You just need to be home the day they are arriving. Check with Al (brewmaster15) or Jeff at discusfarm.us they have nice discus and I believe they have a starter package but I could be wrong. Well they just might now after reading this LOL!
Best of Luck!
Frank

[Carol_Roberts]

Welcome back :wave:

1. Aqua Clear changed their number system! I bought a pair of Aqua Clear 50s- one to use, one as backup, thinking of the 500. I read the fine print when I got home (got these on sale, so no returns), these replace the old 200s and are rated for 50 gallons. Is it ok to use them both in the tank, or do I really need to go get the one big one? If I use them both in the tank, put them at opposite ends, yes? (note- charcoal bags gone, extra sponge in place, and intake sponge there too )Those are really too small - I use them on 20 gallon tanks. I like Frank's idea of adding two sponge filters (Hydro III) you can buy them online at www.petsolutions.com (http://www.petsolutions.com) and other places. The aqua clear 500 is now called aqua clear 110. The two small ones you have added together do not equal the 110.

2. Feeding. I have good data on diets, but am I doing the fish a disservice to feed 3 times daily- once before work, once when I get home and then 10-20 minutes before lights out? I have seen everything from 2x - 6x per day for young ones. That is a critical point actually since I cannot break from work to feed them during the day. I love my Eheim feeders (also sold at petsolutions). Yes, the cost $44, but will feed tetrabits 4 times per day. If you cannot afford one at this time feed first thing in the morning. First thing when you get home from work and then 2 hours later. Try to feed last feeding an hour before lights out. I feed pellets 4 times per day and frozen or live food once a day

3. Water changes- hate to go there since I know what people here think on that. Realistically I am thinking 3 times a week and 20-25 gallons at a time. It would basically be at least a 100% weekly change. Given space, time and aesthetics I do not see an alternative. It would be a 20 or 29 gallon tank alongside filled after each water change and then allow the water a day to age. I have the pond pump Carol recommended to aerate and transfer water efficiently from tank to tank. You can get by with three 50% water changes per week as long as you keep filters and tank clean. Be sure to test yoru water to see what pH is from tap and in the tank. IF numbers are close you can do straight from tap changes like Frank. If not, you need to agitate the water for several hours to stabilize pH.

4. Is this a bad time of year to buy discus? I figure I need a couple of weeks for cycling at least, but wondering if warmer weather is a better time for shipping. I can be patient! You will need 4 weeks or so for cycling. Contact the seller to see if this is a good time to ship to your area.

[Howie_W]

Water changes- hate to go there since I know what people here think on that. Realistically I am thinking 3 times a week and 20-25 gallons at a time. It would basically be at least a 100% weekly change. Given space, time and aesthetics I do not see an alternative. It would be a 20 or 29 gallon tank alongside filled after each water change and then allow the water a day to age. I have the pond pump Carol recommended to aerate and transfer water efficiently from tank to tank.



Hi elpaninaro

IMO, skimping on water changes, especially for juveniles is doing the fish a great disservice. In order for young Discus to develop properly they need large amounts of fresh water each and every day. Caring for Discus is a responsiblity, and this is one of the things that comes with the territory. Before deciding to keep Discus, it's worthwhile to consider how much of your time you are willing to commit to them.

HTH


Howie

[MattArmstrong]

Hi elpaninaro

IMO, skimping on water changes, especially for juveniles is doing the fish a great disservice. In order for young Discus to develop properly they need large amounts of fresh water each and every day. Caring for Discus is a responsiblity, and this is one of the things that comes with the territory. Before deciding to keep Discus, it's worthwhile to consider how much of your time you are willing to commit to them.

HTH


Howie

But daily water changes may not be necessary?

http://members.shaw.ca/dclubine/Experiment.htm

[Carol_Roberts]

Dave Clubine is very experienced and was using a Magnum with a micron filter to collect solids from the water. Yes, it can be done if you follow's Dave's procedure exactly.

Learn to walk before you try to run. Learn to grow out discus the tried and true way in a bare bottom tank with daily water changes. When you have mastered that by all means experiment.

Besides how will you know if your "less water change method" really works if you've never grown out large healthy discus. Time after time when people come to my house they can't believe how big my discus are. They've only seen discus in pet stores or discus grown out in less than optimum conditions. Also it's safer to experiment if you have a sucessful method to fall back on.

[Howie_W]

But daily water changes may not be necessary?




Hi Matt,

Dave set-up a controlled experiment to show the effects of varied water changes, and did so over a short period of time. In general, it goes entirely against the grain of what all experienced Discus keepers have come to learn over time. As a brief, albeit important sidenote, Dave no longer keeps Discus.

Clean daily water changes are extremely important to juveniles, not only to acheive the best growth, but also to prevent disease. Take a good look through the forum, especially the Disease Management section, and you'll find regular proof of what happens when these fish get short changed.

HTH

Howie

[elpaninaro]

Hello,

Thank you for the replies. Carol- talked to lfs and they will trade- thank you for letting me know the model # since I was going to trade them for a 70! So now will have a 110.

Howie, thank you for your candor. It is well received. These are special fish and they need what they need- it is what it is!

Did some more research today and turns out the dealer I have spoken with before who has the strain I REALLY want is closed until the spring.

So, it is January now and I am going to get a community going in the 55. See how it goes. Maybe test out efficient ways to change water etc. And if I have fun and can figure out daily wc without a lot of mess- then another 55 and discus this spring. I figure getting to know how to handle a tank this large will help me feel more comfortable taking the plunge.

Time will tell.

Thanks again for the thoughts all. I will go back into lurk mode now and see how thing go :)

[Carol_Roberts]

Looking forward to seeing you back with your new discus this spring :)

[Howie_W]

Thanks again for the thoughts all. I will go back into lurk mode now and see how thing go :)

Don't be a stranger, and feel free to post regularly! :)

Water changes do not take that long, especially if you find yourself a quality pump with a decent flow rate. In addition, a 55 gallon is not that big a tank and can be emptied and refilled in short time.

My two cents worth; if you are interested in getting Discus, hold off on buying other fish and concentrate on your set-up including water changes. Also, there are plenty of Discus supppliers right here on the forum that have some of the nicest fish around if you don't feel like waiting that long!

Cheers.

Howie