Is my tank ready?

[HTown Discus]

I'm re-learning how to keep Discus, so bear with me....

I have a week-old setup but have had a fully cycled Hydro-Sponge V in my tank for 3 days. Nitrites and Nitrites are very low. pH is very high, well over 8. From what I have read pH should not be a big concern until it's time for eggs. Ammonia is @ 4 ppm. I know this is high but I think I can get it lower with a 50% water change tonight. Keeping temp at 86.

I have a shipment of fish scheduled for Wednesday, but can still back out. My question is... is my tank ready based on this information?

[RyanH]

Hello there,

What was the process and duration of your cycling regiment?

If you are certain that you have a fully cycled filter then I would change all of the water and receive your shipment. It also couldn't hurt to hit your tank with a couple of teaspoons of pure ammonia for a couple of days to pep up your bio-filter, but again, you will want to change basically all of your water prior to the arrival of your fish. You want to do this 24 hours before you start to acclimate them so your water has time to age.

hth!

-Ryan

[HTown Discus]

It only cycled for a week, but I got a fully cycled sponge from a friend. My concern is really with ammonia ppg. If I do a full water change this shouldn't be an issue though.

So should I raise the temp and add salt before putting them in?

[RyanH]

I wouldn't raise the temperature, no. You want your water to be as close to the water that they are coming from as possible to minimize stress.

A teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons for a day or so to ease stress is fine.

Watch that ammonia! If it gets much above zero, change more water. This will slow the cycling process but your fish will thank you.

-Ryan

[Sergey]

I would not change anything and watch _changes_ in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, to make sure the filter is working.

There's also a chance with introducing pathogens from another tank with the sponge, but I guess that's a matter of preference. I would not put fish into that tank yet.

[HTown Discus]

I would not put fish into that tank yet.

Sergey, what is your reasoning here? Because of the ammonia level? I have had a fully cycled Hydro V running in there for 3 days.

[RyanH]

I think Sergeys concern is the presence of ammonia. If you have an ammonia count in your tank that is not decreasing and you have no fish contributing to the ammonia count, you likely do not have a viable biofilter.

I would only add the fish if you are certain that your filter is fully cycled. I would test your ammonia tonight and tomorrow night. If you see no drop then your filter needs to cycle longer. I would also test your tap water for ammonia.

hth! :)

-Ryan

[alpine]

HTown, I am just a Newby but if that Hydro V is working properly , why are you having 4 ppm Ammonia reading...I figure you put those babies in and the Ammonia shoots to 4 ppm they will surely not be there long.
roberto.

[Sergey]

>I have had a fully cycled Hydro V running in there for 3 days

Just cheking :) Any chance that filter was dipped in chlorinated water?

I'd just verify the fact that the biofilter is working. If it is, you're going to see a pretty fast fall in ammonia and nitrite concentration and a raise of nitrates. And might be a pH fall.

You'd just have a peace of mind knowing there's a very little chance of having to fight an ammonia spike ones the fish are in.

If it's no emergency to put fish in, I'd wait.

Regards,
Sergey.

[aggie_67]

Real question is where did the ammonia come from? Should not have any at all, using aged tap water, no fish????

[aggie_67]

Guys and Girls,

Need to help HTown out, know it's hard not knowing the whole story, some have asked for details.

First he has a 90 gal tank. When he says he has a 1 week cycled tank, I think he is saying the water in his tank has aged for 1 week (no bio, no ammonia feed, etc.) On Sat he got a aged filter and a 3" RT to test his tank as he was scheduled to get a big shipment on Wed. When the fish was introduced it began having problems. He changed water 50% 2X Sunday but fish was still having problems. Tested water and found 4ppm ammonia. With those circumstances IMO there is no way the 1 3" fish or the filter fits into a 4ppm ammonia problem in a 90 gal tank w/2X 50% water changes per day!!!! He is adding a water tratment chemical, not sure which one.

Have suggested he test his water supply, but looking ahead aren't the only 2 choices 1) ammonia in his supply water or 2)chloroamine in his tap water, which his treatment is breaking down to ammonia.

From previous posts isn't about the only cure to go to RO and reconstitute? If he adds sponges, etc in his aging tank and it was sucessful wouldn't it just convert to nitrates then his nitrates would be at upper limit coming out of the aging drum?? Not sure what carbon filters on the supply water would do.

[Alight]

Definitely pin down the source of the ammonia. 4 is way too high for Discus, or most any fish, especially with high pH.

4 is too high to be explained by any chloramine concentrations I know of.

Even if he does have 4 ppm ammonia in his tank, if the hydrosponge really does have a food biofilter in it, it should go to zero overnight.

All that said, he should definitely not get the Discus tomorrow!!!

If the source water does have ammonia in it, he can use an ammonia ion exchange resin like ammochips, or another product to get rid of it.

However, I certainly wouldn't drink water with that much ammonia in it!

[HTown Discus]

First off, let me just say that this is the most helpful and courteous message board that I've ever been a part of. Thanks for all of the advise.

As it turns out my water source is okay. Ammonia is very low, which is quite a relief. I believe that the source of my problems was with the filters. I have an AC 500 and Hydro V. I cleaned the sponges thouroughly with dechlorinated water and did a 95% water change, and things are looking up. Nitrates and Nitrates around zero and ammonia is much lower, well under 1 ppm. Not quite zero, but much better. My "test" Discus looks a lot better now. The poor fella has survived 4 days in toxic water. His new name is Miracle.

[Anonapersona]

I'll guess that the fully cycled sponge was nasty and dirty and had sat around for long enough to kill off a good amount of the bacteria, dead bacteria makes ammonia just like dead fish or food. So, washing out the filter to remove the dead bacteria and any half decomposed food and wastes was exactly the right answer.

Now, there is still the question of how well cycled that sponge is. The best thing, IMO, would be to add a few teaspoons of ammonia to the tank, whatever it took to get the ammonia level back up to about 1 or 2 ppm, then let it decline naturally to zero ammonia and zero nitrites, assuming you can put a hodl on the new fish for another 4 or 5 days. Follow with a large waterchange. When adding the fish, test for ammonia daily, do water changes as needed, and feed lightly until you are sure all is well.

Oh, correction, you have a fish. Well then, I'd add Prime to make him more comfortable. It detoxes the ammonia and lets the filter do its thing, it only detoxes the ammonia for 24 hours so ammonia is still there for the filter but slowly.

[Cosmo]

Better safe than sorry is the best way to go in these cases. Whenever something is questionable, best to hold off untill you're absolutly sure of what you're dealing with.

But.. it's late Tuesday, so if they're coming, they're coming... and if so I hope everything works out fine. Adding numerous fish to the tank with a questionable biofilter though is an invitation to New Tank Syndrome :( ... you may have your hands full for a couple weeks :(

Best of luck, and let us know
Jim

[Sergey]

This is just the 'inadvertant experiment' I was talking about a while ago on the thread on bacteria colonization. We might be able to estimate at what rate a 3" discus produces ammonia.

HTown, your fish might not suffered in vain.

Could you tell us
- are you getting any ammonia reading in your tap water after treatment with a conditioner?
- do I understand correctly that you got a 4 ppm ammonia reading after the fish has been in the tank for a full 24 hour day? Was the reading taken before or after a WC?

Basically, the more exact details, the better. I'd really appreciate it.

Regards,
Sergey.

[HTown Discus]

This is just the 'inadvertant experiment' I was talking about a while ago on the thread on bacteria colonization. We might be able to estimate at what rate a 3" discus produces ammonia.

HTown, your fish might not suffered in vain.

Could you tell us
- are you getting any ammonia reading in your tap water after treatment with a conditioner?
- do I understand correctly that you got a 4 ppm ammonia reading after the fish has been in the tank for a full 24 hour day? Was the reading taken before or after a WC?

Basically, the more exact details, the better. I'd really appreciate it.

Regards,
Sergey.

First off let me just say that this forum is the most helpful and courteous that I've ever been a part of. All of your advise is much appreciated.

Unfortunately, this is more a case of stupidity than a good example in proving anyone's theory. It turns out that my tap water is low in ammonia. It also turns out that I was not cleaning my filters well enough. Initially I was putting ammonia in the tank to help cycle before installing the cycled sponge. I have cleaned both media thouroughly with dechlorinated water and changed the water, 95%. Ammonia reading after doing this was at around 1 ppm and has steadily descended to 0 and been stable at that level for 2 days. Nitrites have been steady at 0 and Nitrates have climbed to just under 5 ppm. I believe this shows that my filtration is working properly. Even though there was a simple solution to my problem I learned quite a bit about water and filtration, mostly thanks to this forum. Next step... keeping my Discus alive. Stay tuned.

[Sergey]

I was under the impression that you did not add pure ammonia to the tank.

It sounds like your biofilter is working.

Thanks a lot!

Regards,
Sergey.