Quarantine time for wild discus?

[wild_heckel]

I have an opportunity to purchase 3 medium size wild heckels from my LFS. They said they have been in the tank for 3-4 weeks and don't sell well because they are not very colourful. Heckel discus is one of my favourite fish and I like to purchase them. They fish have been quarantine at the wholesaler tank for 3 weeks (regulation over here). I don't have a quarantine tank and I wonder if it's okay to place them in my tank. Considering they have been in fish tanks for at least 6 weeks will they still carry parasites from the Amazon river. I can put them in one of my tank that only have pleco fry.
The shop keeper fed them with life black worm and they went for it. They look responsive but skinny and placed with tank bred discus.
If I get a quarantine tank don't I have to cycle the tank first and will have to wait for few weeks.

[Cosmo]

The problem is you don't really know what if anything they've been exposed to either at the wholesaler or at the LFS.. without doing your own quarantine you're always taking a chance of introducing something unwanted into your tank.. you could potentially place them in with your pleco fry, remembering you may have to treat the whole tank if something does develope, and, you may (or may not) lose a fews.

Another area of concern is that three is not a good number as it tends to bring out aggression as they position themselves in the hierarchy of the tank..

Having said all that.. I love Heckels too, so it would be a tough call :)

Will the LFS loan you a tank and setup filter? If they're not selling well they just might ?

let us know

Jim

[Howie_W]

Hi wild,

You shoul definitely get yourself a quarantine tank. It's safe to asume they are harboring parasites, and should be treated as such. You can also take advantage of your existing set-up to add an additional sponge filter to it. Once it's been running for a number of weeks, and has an established bacteria colony, it can be transfered to your quarantine tank.

As Jim mentioned, 3 is not a good number. You'll have more success with 6 or more fish.


Howie

[wild_heckel]

Thank you for the information. I quess I better get a quarantine tank to reduce risk of losing fish. The LFS only have 3 heckels but about 6 weeks ago I saw another LFS that had 6 heckels. They were sold quite quickly.
Maybe I should take some pictures and post them here before I decide to buy them to get some feedback on their condition. The LFS staff said they most likely still available next week. People are not willing to pay the asking price for them.
Do I need to get 6 of the same strains and just any discus?

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Hi Wild,
I have a few 4.5" Heckels if your interested. I raised these from 2" and are accoustomed to captivity. Eats beefheart.

[Howie_W]

Thank you for the information. I quess I better get a quarantine tank to reduce risk of losing fish. The LFS only have 3 heckels but about 6 weeks ago I saw another LFS that had 6 heckels. They were sold quite quickly.
Maybe I should take some pictures and post them here before I decide to buy them to get some feedback on their condition. The LFS staff said they most likely still available next week. People are not willing to pay the asking price for them.
Do I need to get 6 of the same strains and just any discus?

You do not need to 6 of the same strains. What is important is that you don't rush to go out and get new fish. Get your quarantine tank set-up first and ready to go with a fully cycled filter.

Dan has some great looking fish...if you go with him you know you'll be getting quality healthy fish...this should always be one of your top priorities.


Dan,

Great looking fish as always! :thumbsup:



Howie

[wild_heckel]

I will definitely get a quarantine tank first since I also plan to get other wild strains.
Dan, those are nice young adult heckels. Too difficult and costly to ship them to Australia though.
Thanks for the advise.

[NatakuTseng]

When you have wilds too you should Q them for, in my opinion, 5-6 months. Just simply because they have come out of the wild and only god knows what they may have. If you bought them from your LFS I will just about promise you that they have not been properly dewormed, so your going to want to consider that. I also know from a local store owner and having worked there that the wholesalers's consider a Q time of 2-4 weeks completely adaquate and safe, obviously its not.

[Tad]

I like to Qt my wilds for a minimum of 8 weeks but not unusual for me to go 10 plus! But then again I do that for all of my domestics too :) ...Like others have said, its better to have tank just for QT purposes, tanks are much cheaper than discus and possibly meds in the long run,

JMO,
Tad

[wild_heckel]

I am in the process of building a cabinet with steel frame so I can put the Q tank on a top of 200 liters drum that I use to age water. Will 30x18x18 be big enough for Q tank? To be honest I am not willing to change water everyday in the long run, I know it's not going to happen. Twice a week is more sustainable, once per week is preferable as what I've been doing for many years now. How many discus can I put in a 4'x2'x2' tank if I only want to change water once a week. In reality I change water more than once a week but I have to use once a week as a guide. The Q tank is a different story, I don't mind doing a bit more water change since it's temporary. I am thinking about 6-8 weeks with high temperature to speed up the cycle.
Advise please.

[Carol_Roberts]

That is a good size (40 gal) for a Q- tank.

The larger tank is most likely sold as 120 gallons, but holds less. I'd figure 6 adults with 1 or 2 water changes per week of 50%

[wild_heckel]

Thanks Carol.
I'll get 6 medium ones and hopefully I'll get 1 or 2 pairs from them. I am only planning to keep 4 large good quality discus.
--
If I buy a new tank and fill it up with water from established tanks and use an internal filter (medium size Eheim) that has been in an established tank for a long time, can I start quarantining 3 wild medium size discus? I also have some java fern from other tanks that I can use.
If I can, when I do a water change do I use water from established tank or aged water? In theory if I do 30% water change every 2 days wouldn't I be able to keep the water in low nitrate stable PH even if I use a completely new water with new tank and new filter?

[fishfarm]

With the amount of water changes we do on our discus, cycling the tank is the least of your worries, Just change the water, the tank will cycle. I import a lot of wilds, I quaratine all of them for 4-6 weeks before I even consider selling any.
Just about all heckels come in skinny, You need to treat them for internal parisites and get them fat.
Treat for gill flukes first using formalin or prazi, prazi will also kill any internal worms, I use both, them use metro for nematodes and other internal bugs, Keep the water changeed and feed they several times a day. Here's what you'll end up with. These are 8" wild caught heckels I've had about 18 months. :) Ken

[NatakuTseng]

That lower one is absolutely gorgeous Ken. The colors on it are just stunning. Couple really nice fish!

[fishfarm]

Those are called pineapple heckels in the trade, Axelrod claims they are a differnt species and calls them S. willieschuartzi, thye are all just heckels to me, comes from a differnt river, When I import from Brazil a few are mixed in with the others, Wild heckels have a lot more variation than most people think. I have a large group of adults in a 75 that I hope to someday get lucky and get a breeding pair, My goal in life, to breed heckels. I've got a smaller pair set up to breed that were cleaning the heater in the main tank, but after I moved them to a breeder tank they just eat and look at me.. maybe some day LOL

[wild_heckel]

Ken, thanks for the info. I am keeping note and will follow your advise. Can you tell me if you use particular brands of prazi and metro? Do you use the recommended dose for your wild and how many times and how long do you treat them? Do you follow this treatment for both wild and tank bred? Over ten years ago I tried to keep wild heckel and they didn't last very long, maybe because I didn't treat them. Oh, also no internet to get information.
--
Those are nice Heckels. Heckel to me is the best looking of all discus and has the roundest shape. Almost all Heckel that I have seen had nice round shape unlike other wilds. But also the skinniest.
Pineaple Heckel is very expensive, US$400 upward per fish. That is apparently the going price here in Australia though I have never seen one. I am quite happy with the common one.

[jimmyhat]

Heckles are sweet fish..

Quarantine or spend weeks treating fish down the road? Up to you i just did the stupid move 2 weeks ago and i had a extra tank? Just had to have all at once LOL

[fishfarm]

Here's what I do to all wild fish I import.
Get them eating, The first few days after import they are very stressed and usually won't eat so I don't even try. I treat with Nitrofurasan to get them over any torn fins and scrapes, they've been in a bag at least 24-36 hour after being treated rough from capture and being held in crowded holding tanks. I start them on frozen bloodworms or live blackworms (I usually don't get blackworms as they just cost to damn much, but when I get in $3-4,000 worth of adult wilds I'll splurge)
Once they e eating worms I start feeding beefheart in small amounts, At first they pick at it a little, but after few days some start gobbling it down and the rest follow suit.
This takes about a week.
They I start to treat for the bugs I know they all have
Formalin for gill flukes 1 ml per ten gallons with daily 50% water changes, I treat twice, two days apart. Give them a few days to recover.
Next week treat with metro. Either in the beefheart or water 250 mg per ten gallons, 50% daily water changes, treat twice two days apart. I then give them a week off and treat with Prazi either in the food or water. I think Prazi works better in the food, You see them pass worms the next day.
By now I've had them a month. If they are eating well and gaining weight I start selling them in another week or two. 5-6 weeks of quarantine. I also suggest to my customers to quarantine another 4 weeks. Wilds are hardy fish, once you get them cleaned out they get very fat and will grow huge! The heckels in the pictures are all from 6-8 inches and I got them all as adults and they are still growing!

[wild_heckel]

Ken, thanks for the info, I will follow your instruction.
I bought 3 3" heckels today and I place them in a 3'x18x18 QT. I also bought prazi. Still looking for metro, it's not easy to get where I live.
Ken, do I need to change 50% of the water everyday or only when I apply medications? When I apply a medication and do a 50% water change the next day will the medication have enough time to do it's job. What I am trying to say is it only gets full doze of medication for 24 hours, after 50% water change the next day it will only have half dose remain in the water.

I think I am going to let the fish rest for few days before I medicate them with prazi. Hopefully they eat frozen blood worm in the next few days. Do I need to increase the water temp during treatments? The fish had been in the shop for 6-8 weeks, nice appearance, no torn fins but look skinny.