Help with homemade sump

[Nora]

Just wondering if anybody has tips on building a sump
Currently I have a 125g tank, running 4 #4sponge filters on it plus a canister..even though it has no gravel or decor it is basically my showtank since it is located in across the dining area and it's a bit unsightly with the sponge filters there..I was considering doing a sump and putting the sponges on my 55g QT tank(it already has 2)
If anyone has suggestions on equiptment,etc..I sure would appreciate it..I've never had a sump ..would like to hide some of the equiptment so fish have more room to swim around
Thanks

[raglanroad]

For starters, I use an 802 powerhead in the sump to return water. It cost only $42 CAN. , retail, and pumps the water up 5' to the tank, at a rate hardly less than the regular usage rate, I think it's 365 gph. Quite a saving over the pump recommended at the store @ $400. If you used 2 of them, you would have a lot of water movement, equal to the mag drive pumps. Very quiet, and has been used for many years.

[Nora]

What else would I need?..I've seen some people use 20g tanks underneath their tanks and put the heaters in there I'm really clueless..you'd have to forgive me..

[Nora]

bump

[JimmyL]

First, you have to buy me a cup of coffee and we can make one before the coffee is done. just a few minutes. You need the basic material like a simple glass cutter. a square rule and some glasses from the back of a glass store or from your unfriendlly neighbour's window. Make sure you place 2 suction cups before cutting. No noise technique!!!! rubber mellet to tap it out.

A simple and most effective sump is to have plenty of good becteria to turn the harmful excretions from the fish into harmless chemicals. These can be acheived by creating a series of water falls to allow water to pass through a series of filter mediums and at the same time absorb and replenish oxygen content from water falls similar to the Aquarclear power filter before recirculating back through the aquirium.

A simply one is adding 2 pieces of glass to create 3 separate compartments in the sump. Size of each compartment is depending on personal preferances and the materials will be put inside. The first comparment is to recieve the overflow coming from the aqarium. The first piece of glass is placed (silicone) 1" above the bottom of the tank to allow water to get through the bottom of the tank into the second compartment. The second piece of glass is located at the bottom and 2" lower than the first piece of glass to force the water to the top and overflow to the third compartment. An overflow hole can be drilled on the last compartment to evacuate the excess water when the pump stop for maintenance or power failure. This can be eliminated or be avoided if you have a high capacity sump that only power a few tanks.

Many more compartments can be created in this way if more filtering materials is preferred. As long as the water is going up and down from each compartment and each progressive glass that silicone to the bottom of the tank has to be lower than the previous one to allow water fall action. if you have a longer or higher capacity sump tank and a very imaginative mind, you can create a burrow like sump with many tunnels and passages.Even a maze puzzle that makes your friends scratching their heads each time they look at it. I have one tank a fellow hobbyist can never figure out how it works.

Filter floss or bio-balls or anything you prefer can be placed in each compartmet to harbour nitrobacters and also act as a filter. Heater and water pump can be located on the third or last compartment to recirulate water back to the aquarium. Size of water pump should be able to pump minimum of 3 times the total capacity per hour taking into account of the height of water has to travel and the diameter of the water hose or pipe from the sump.
HTH
Jimmy

[Moon]

I have a home made wet/dry filter for my 125 discus grow out tank. An old 15g tank is the sump and a 10g perched on top of the sump to hold bio balls. The bottom of the 10g is removed and replaced with a piece of egg crate. A 150 gph submersible pump returns the filtered water back to the tank.
Simple, inexpensive filtration system works well.

[Nora]

Wow..Jimmy L and Moon...great tips and advice!! Thanks a bunch..have a Starbucks on me Jimmy(lol) Thanks again :D

[Nora]

I have a home made wet/dry filter for my 125 discus grow out tank. An old 15g tank is the sump and a 10g perched on top of the sump to hold bio balls. The bottom of the 10g is removed and replaced with a piece of egg crate. A 150 gph submersible pump returns the filtered water back to the tank.
Simple, inexpensive filtration system works well.
Hi Moon..do you have any pics of your sump?..just so I can get a rough idea how it's gonna look when I set up

[frenchdiscus]

Yes, pictures please, it's in my plans as well!

Now if your tank is NOT drilled... How does the water get down to the sump?

Maybe obvious for some?!?!?

[JimmyL]

An overflow valve..... but no guarantee. Even drilled hole has no guarantee water will come down if your "not so samrt" Bristlenose pleco decided to take a rest and got himself stuck inside. A home made overflow without tank drilling thread from other forum may help. Here is the link. Pay no attention to other people's concept of power failure. Mine doesn't require electricity. Just hydrostatic pressure which flows from high to low. You may need 1" diameter for constant flow instead of 1/2" for the drip system.
http://discusasahobby.com/forum/index.php?topic=1928.0
Jimmy.

[nacra99]

15H wet/dry sump for my 75 gal
$10 for a tank.. and the rest are scrap pieces of egg crate and some discarded 1/4" acrylic (which i cut from what i think used to be some store advertising diaplay)... cheap!

The bioballs go in the left compartment sanwiched between the 2 layers of eggcrate, and the return pump and heater goes into the right side. The same layout can be used to build a larger sump for a larger aquarium.

http://www.geocities.com/nacra99/pictures/sump.jpg

[Moon]

Sorry I am digital photographically challenged. I am not able to post pics. My tank is not drilled. I use an overflow box that I bought some years ago.

[JeffreyRichard]

All good approaches, but even more involved/expensive than necessary. You can easily "make" a sump out of any large plastic rubbermaid container ... get a hold of a 37 gallon (about $10-$12 at a Home Depot) ... this will be the Sump. You then need a smaller bucket/container to hold the filter media ... which can be sponges, biobeads, bio-balls, DLS batting ... basically anything that is inert (will not leach toxins) ... DLS batting is easy and cheap, but so are Bio-balls from an outlet such as Aquatic Ecosystems. Anyway, you need to have the smaller bucket (even a 5 gallon one will do) inside the sump. Drill lots of holes in the bottom so water flows threw the bucket (with the media) and collects in the sump. Have a 3rd smaller container on top of the media bucket, and use it as a prefiler ... fill with filter floss, filter pads, sheet of sponge ... anything to collect the large particles of waste (either rinse off or throw away ... frequently). Make sure to drill/cut holes in the bottom of this one too ... water needs to flow threw this. The most expensive part is the pump to move the water back into the tank ... I recommend a ViaAqua Pump 2300 (moves 400 GPH and only costs $20 from Dr. Fosters). You'll need an overflow from the tank ... if the tank isn't drilled then you'll need to buy a Hanging Overflow ... this would be the biggest expense ($80).

You have yourself an effective wet-dry filter ... you can put your heater in the sump too (just be careful not to melt the plastic ... anchor to a piece of glass or slate or something).

[PsychoKnight]

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Nora said she had a spare 55g tank she wants to use to hide all the ugly equipment. She wants a refugium sump, not a wet/dry sump (which prob wouldn't accommodate 4 large hydrosponges). All she needs is a stable platform to place the 55 under her 125, move ALL of her equipment into the 55. If the 55 won't fit under the 125, alternative concealment could be a challenge.

I just did this a few days ago on my 60g using a 40g refugium. I used an Amiracle overflow prefilter box, and a matching 3 ft siphon hose. Going upwards, I plugged in a Mag5 pump matted to a 5/8" ID black hose (using black reduces algae growth) to a return elbow I made out of three 1/2"ID black pvc elbows from the sprinkler dept. (black will look better than standard white, usually sold in bags of several, for attaching sprinkler heads). Internet prices are about $60 overflow/prefilter box, $15 hose, $50 Mag5, $15 black hose, barbs, elbows, teflon tape, etc.

For your 125g, I would use an Amiracle small Siphon-less One Piece Overflow w/ a capacity of 800gph going downward and a Mag7 going up. Don't forget to order an Amiracle siphon hose in the correct length, and a proprietary small lid for the overflow as it makes loud gurgling noises audible from down the hall. CPR seems to make a popular one-piece also, but its an efficient C-siphon rather than siphonless. A check valve in the same size inner dia. hose you will be using will prevent back-siphoning of the return hose, should you have a power failure on the return pump.

Your 125g will then have no visible equipment save an overflow skimmer and a return elbow. I would keep the water level of the refugium at least 2 inches from the top in case your pump and check valve fails.

I'd show a picture but I'm in another world now. The refugium is in the process of being packed to the top with live fiji rock rubble to support an evolving reef tank w/ dense fish stock, and the protein skimmer will just confuse some people. Discus got too complicated for me. LOL. Actually, wife wanted aquatic variety.

[shaunn]

PK-

Based on the lingo you used, it sounds like your suggestion is for a salt water tank. Nora (I believe)has a freshwater tank.

Jeffrey's suggestion is the mosty practical. I would suggest the following:

37 Gallon tote style plastic bin (Home depot)
Lava Racks (bio medium)
A Couple of those plastic breeding bins to protect fry
Floss
DIY Oveflow Siphons (2 for redundancy)
Mag5

[PsychoKnight]

PK-

Based on the lingo you used, it sounds like your suggestion is for a salt water tank. Nora (I believe)has a freshwater tank.

Jeffrey's suggestion is the mosty practical. I would suggest the following:

37 Gallon tote style plastic bin (Home depot)
Lava Racks (bio medium)
A Couple of those plastic breeding bins to protect fry
Floss
DIY Oveflow Siphons (2 for redundancy)
Mag5

Uh, no.

The type of water is irrelevant. The function and purpose of the question is the issue. Go back to the original intent. Nora did not state she had a problem with the sufficiency or type of filtration, but specifically, the unsightliness of the filtration equipment.

I have to agree with her that the biggest drawback to the hydrosponge is the visual distraction due to the large sizes required for standard bio-loads. (Think lack of gravel has anything to do w/ that?) They bothered me more than the r/o water changes I painstakenly conditioned twice a day. They did their job well and kept the bio process numbers low, but they looked so damn ugly. To a outsider, it would look like the Frankenstein efforts of a beginner hobbyist.
She has everything she needs to hide her filters and heaters (and w/out cycling new biofilter material for another 2-3 weeks), except for a siphon overflow & return pump. If she installed a wet/dry sump, she would have to buy both these items anyhow, plus the main wet/dry sump assembly at much greater cost.
An unintended benefit of adding a 55g refugium would be to increase fish capacity by 44% (need more hydrosponges in the refugium, but they're cheap, there's plenty of room and they'll and be out of sight). That is a considerable advantage considering younger Discus like to school together. If she doesn't add more Discus, she'll still have the advantage of lowering the bio-load on the system.
I don't have an objection with advising her to switch to a wet/dry sump, as it will do the job just as well. I just don't feel she should be forced into thinking that this would be her only option. I see only benefits to adding the refugium, and no negatives. She can also do this now, and switch to a conventional wet/dry sump in the future without paying a dime extra compared to if she did that now. (Okay, maybe she'd save 10% on a packaged deal, but that's negligible)
Simply because a technique is used in marine aquaria doesn't mean it can't be useful w/ freshwater fish. Paradigm shift required. Like using a plumber's torch to make Creme Brulette.

[shaunn]

PK-

I am getting confused with the refugium reference; I thought a refugium was a part of the sump where saltwater critters beneficial to the filtration process could seek "refuge" and protect them from being destroyed by pumps and other filtration equipment.

What's the difference between a sump and refugium, in your eyes? If refugium = sump then I do agree with your statement.

[funkyfish]

i think the diff is the refugium has a lot more water and less bio filtration
and a wet\dry has more bio mass and less water correct me if i'm wrong
but the refugium idea sounds cheaper than the wet\dry and the benifit
of the extra water.and she already has cycled filters. jmo!

[PsychoKnight]

I guess different circles use the terms with differing intents. This is my meager understanding;

A sump is a remote container connected to the main container through a series of hoses. Many racecars and even family cars like early Toyota Previas had remote oil sumps to increase capacity. What makes a sump a sump is its relationship to the main container by being both remote yet connected and sharing the same liquid.

A refugium is any form of separation between the main tank and a smaller container, whether the smaller container is housed within the main tank, hung on the back of the tank, or placed below, and shares the same water. If tubes and pumping is required to move the refugium's water to and from a remote location, it becomes a sump-style refugium. If you had a refugium container on the inside of the main tank, and had a small powerhead deliver water current into the container, this refugium would not be a sump because it is not in a remote location. A hang-on-back refugium using siphon and return pump would make it a sump refugium the same as if it was placed under the tank or behind a wall separating the main tank.

A sump has nothing to do with its function, whether it functions as a wet/dry filter or as a refugium to provide a separation for delicate or aggressive species (or critters grown as food), but on its positional relationship to the main tank. Unless specially designed, refugiums are generally not found as part of a wet/dry sump because the reservoire area is where most of the equipment & bulkhead connections are located for sterilizers, skimmers, heater, dosing devices, etc and much too violent a current for visible animals to live in. Plus there's only a few inches deep of water there as it serves as a drain pan for the bioballs.

When I introduced the term refugium, I guess I meant it as a "refuge" for the hydrosponges, powerhead, heater, hang-on back filter, thermometer, etc. Not as a container to grow or keep anything protected from predation. I imagine we could call it an "equipment-&-sponge-filter-sump" just the same.

In my current set up, I use a refugium for the saltwater version of the hydrosponge, which is live rock; porous coralline rock w/ every micro crack/crevice/pore covered in beneficial bacteria and invisible plantlife. I have no live food growing in there, no fish or plants, just rock and lots of equipment. A refugium supports life, and I guess because the rocks are "live" I was told to refer to it as a refugium on salt boards. In my mind, a saltwater live rock is no different than a freshwater hydrosponge. I see now why people are having a problem with my terms. Henceforth, I'll say "sponge and equipment sump." But its the strategy I'm trying to get across.

Sorry to cross the salinity line, but I'm just trying to introduce another way of doing things. I think a lot of fishkeeping practices is only a matter of cultural conventions. What's good for Discus is usually good for most other amazonian species, but excessive water change, bare bottom tanks, AquaClear filters and hydrosponges is a distinctive mark of the discus owner simply because people tend to be more comfortable conforming to a group habit.

To further the disucssion;
Anybody have thoughts on reasons not to convert a spare tank into a refugium for equipment?

[aggie_67]

PsychoKnight,

I may be wrong but when I read Nora's orginal post she said she wanted a wet/dry filter for under her 125, then she could reuse the 4 sponge filters on her 55 QT. She did not say she wanted to use the 55 as a wet/dry, she is using it for QT.

[PsychoKnight]

PsychoKnight,

I may be wrong but when I read Nora's orginal post she said she wanted a wet/dry filter for under her 125, then she could reuse the 4 sponge filters on her 55 QT. She did not say she wanted to use the 55 as a wet/dry, she is using it for QT.

You are absolutely correct.

When she said she wanted tips in "building a sump" and mentioned moving 4 sponges to the 55QT tank, my mind made the jump that she was building a sump from scratch, using the 55 as the container, . . . because why would you want six #4 hydrosponges in a 55 QT tank (this would take up nearly 1/2 the tank floor). Once the sump is fully cycled, there would be no need for the 4 hydrosponges in either the main or QT tank.

Aggie, thanks for the correction and my apologies to everyone for the irrelevant posts. Hopefully, at least I got some people thinking about the possibilities of adding hidden volume & hiding equipment with this simple alternative sump solution.

ps
Someone mentioned using a plastic bucket for the sump and attaching the heater to a slate of glass or rock to prevent meltthrough. I was thinking a commonly available plastic heater guard can just be slipped over the heater.