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JonS
05-19-2005, 11:49 PM
Ok I have decided to go with a BB 65 gal tank. And I will probably get 6-8 juveniles. I have read most of the very informative post about "How do I set up my first Discus tank" by Carol Roberts. It was what go me to decide on the BB tank. And probably saved me from making a big mistake, as I was about to get a 150 gal and plant it and stock it it with many Discus. Ok so my question is: Is there anything special I need to do to "Age" the water in a 55 gal plastic trash can? Do I just fill it up each night and then use that for my water changes? Do I add anything to the water? What does Aged really mean? I also believe I read in the post by Carol that RO is not good for the Juvenilves since it removes most of the minerals from the water. So I guess that isn't what I would use for the Aging. Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jon

Butch
05-20-2005, 08:21 AM
Hi Jon...aged water, big topic with me right now. Depends on what kind
of water you have coming out of your tap. First thing, if not already done,
is to find out what all is in your water. Either from your local water company
or run the important test yourself.
Some tap water has only small amounts of Chlorine and is the easiest to
to age. AGED WATER: Water that can be put in your discus tank, at up to
75% of tank volumn, and have no harmful impact on the fish. I think
that is a fair defination of aged water. What is harmful impact?
1. Temperature
2. Ammonia
3. Chlorine
So, the object is to get the bad stuff out and match the temp of your
tank and you can water change as much as you want.
If you are dealing with just Chlorine....24hrs in the aging barrel with heat and
aeration will do the trick. So fill the barrel, turn on the heat and air and
24 hours later, your good to go.
If you have Chloramines....Chlorine and Ammonia combined....whole different
BIG issue. Look under Water Quality heading for more direction on that
situation. I am in the learning curve myself with Chloramines since I recently
moved and went from just Chlorine tap water to Chloramine tap water. Luckly
I have no fish right now and have time to experiment with aging and what its
gonna take to have good water for water changes.
Keep checking the Water Quality area as I intend to post what I find out.

Butch :)

agave60
05-20-2005, 08:23 AM
Hi Jon,
I also have a BB 65 gal with six juveniles.

You asked:

Is there anything special I need to do to "Age" the water in a 55 gal plastic trash can?
You need to test your tap water for pH. The purpose of testing the pH right out of the tap is to see if it changes after aerating it for more than 12 hours. As it was suggested in one of the previous posts, test your tap water pH, fill up a small container with the tap water, put an airstone in and test it after 12 hours. If the pH changes then you know you must age your water before doing your water changes. Some people are able to do water changes straight out of the tap; I can't, my pH starts out at 7.8, after aging it stabilizes at 7.2. I don't rely on my city water to be consistent so I don't test for chlorine or anything else, I always add a tap water conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramines. I use: Tap Water Conditioner from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.

Do I just fill it up each night and then use that for my water changes? Do I add anything to the water?
Yes, fill it up, add a tap water conditioner of your liking, aerate for 12+ hours, and use a heater to bring the new water up to your tank temperature.

What does Aged really mean?
To me it means, water that has been aerated, conditioned and heated long enough to stabilize the pH and brought up to tank temperature.

Hopefully this helps, I will admit I'm not the most experienced one around, but I do think I have the water change procedures down pat.

Carlos

funkyfish
05-20-2005, 08:50 AM
i just fill my cans up after water change turn the air and heat on and by next water change it's ready to go. i just have chlorine and floride in my water
and water conditioners won't get ride of the floride nice white teeth :D
so good luck

raglanroad
05-20-2005, 09:02 AM
I also believe I read in the post by Carol that RO is not good for the Juvenilves since it removes most of the minerals from the water. So I guess that isn't what I would use for the Aging. Any info would be appreciated.Jon Jon, RO is much better than tap for a number of reasons. You will have much more stable water if you use RO, and the danger of wild shifts in the tapwater is eliminated, as well as many toxins, nitrate, ammonia, on and on. All you have to do, is add back in a mineral supplement, cheap, and easy. Any kind of water you like , you can make with RO.
But I wonder how juveniles ever grow up in the wild, with some low mineral water?
I am trying to find any research that indicates that soft water fish grow better in higher minerals, in a side by side comparison of the same fry.
Any help with this?

Eddie
05-20-2005, 09:20 AM
I age my water. My tap water has chloramines and it is 7.6 from tap. After about 8 hours, my water is 7.2. My aged water doesn't have aeration to circulate the water, I use a submersible pump and a hose with a flare fitting on the end. The hose end sets above the barrel, directing water down into the barrel to create a great deal of water movement, thus stabilizing my PH. I have a heater and a thermometer in each barrel. I simply add Prime to my barrels after I top them off so there are no chloramines in my water when It comes time to do my WC's. ;)

KIWI13
05-20-2005, 10:04 AM
Hello JonS,

First off let me start by saying planting a tank is not a big mistake. I think yeah if you wann amake those juvi's grow up real quickly then a bare bottom is useful cause it eases up on cleaning. Discus love plants and i think you can provide them with some by simply potting some plants and putting them in there, that way you have a good balance of BB and planted, you provide places to hide and you can clean easily.
Some might say that the high temp is not good for plants, but i have plants doing fine in 30°c tank, sure they might not grow rapidly but they are ok.

I tend to use a 50% R.O. and 50% tap water mix and yes the minerals are important to an extent but then again you can buy the minerals and add em in yourself if you are using just R.O. water. I would advice against 100% R.O. water tanks, I have a friend who does it and his fish are not doing the best.

Sincerely Jason.

lldewe
05-20-2005, 12:29 PM
OK so aging water. I have a well and the water comes out pretty hard. I do not use it in my aquariums as the fish just don't live in it. If I overnite it with aeration and a heater what kind of conditioner do I need to use? There is of course no chlorine or chloramines in it but it's not safe to use as is...

Lorie

funkyfish
05-20-2005, 12:44 PM
lorie what makes it unsafe for use besides hardness my water is 375 ppm hardness
and my fish are fine.they don't make a conditioner to get ride of hardness

JonS
05-20-2005, 02:09 PM
Everyone, wow thanks for all your responses. It has definitely helped me understand.

I have two folow up questions....

1) Heating the water, how do you have your heater in a plastic 55 gal trash can, do you just attach it to the side or suspend it in the middle of the can. I am leary of attaching it to the plastic. I was thinking of getting a 300 watt submersible heater and wrapping the cord around a wood slat resting across the top of the trash can thus having the heater suspended in the middle of the trash can.

2) How long can this water be sitting around before I should toss it out if at all. That is, say for whatever reason I can't do it for 2,3 or 4 days, is the water still ok?

Thanks again for all your help.

Jon

Alight
05-20-2005, 02:21 PM
I put my submersible heater as close to the bottom of my storage tank as I can. I have it suspended by the suction cup attachments that came with the heater. As long as there is water in the plastic container, I don't think the heater can melt the plastic.

I like the bottom because then I'm unlikely to burn out the heater if I ever forget to turn it off, and I use up nearly all of the water.

I use up my water so fast, I don't know how long it would take it to sour. Also, my container has been going long enough that it probably has enough bacteria sticking to the sides to take care of whatever organics there might be to foul the water.

lldewe
05-20-2005, 02:45 PM
So where do you guys keep this large container of water? My aquariums are in the living room so that isn't the right place <LOL>

Lorie

funkyfish
05-20-2005, 03:18 PM
i use stealth heaters and i just lay them in the bottom of the container
as long as u have bubbler's in the water i would imagine it would stay
good for a week i guess

Carol_Roberts
05-20-2005, 03:50 PM
My heaters lay in the bottom of the plastic tank. AS long as water is in the tank they will not melt the plastic.

My GH is 12 and the pH is 6.6 from the tap. With 3 hours of heavy aeration (agitation) the pH stabilizes at 7.8. Stabilization time varies. It takes longer with hard water, longer in the winter with cold water, etc. Agitation makes some water offgass CO2 (pH rises), while others will see their pH lower. You have to test your water before, during and after aeration to see what your pH does over a given amount of time.

alpine
05-20-2005, 04:14 PM
Basshead , I do understand you say your PH lowers after aging, mine rises and Carol Roberts indicates the same . Are you sure you are taking the right readings ?
Just curious.

roberto.

Carol_Roberts
05-20-2005, 04:19 PM
Yes - some folks have water where the city adds buffers to raise the pH (to save wear and tear on the city pipes). The buffer is quickly used up and their pH stablilizes lower after aging.

JonS
05-21-2005, 08:22 AM
Thanks again for all your help. I am getting pretty excited about getting my discus!!

Thanks!!

Jon

lldewe
05-23-2005, 02:06 PM
OK I set up a 32 gal plastic container to age my water in. I started it off with 20 gals of the LFS store bought RO water. I filled it the rest of the way with tap water from my well. No chlorine or anything like that in it. I put a powerhead with an aerator on it and the heater from my 29 gal tank. I pH'd it and it was 7.4. It has been on all day and overnight with the min temp outside at 65 degrees last night and max yesterday at 90 degrees. It is still cold and the pH is still 7.4.

The last time I used my tap water everything int he tank died within 24 hours. No, not discus thankfully!

So, when does it get warm and when can I use it in my tank?? I'm very nervous...

Lorie

Alight
05-23-2005, 03:23 PM
Not sure about the "when does it get warm?" Does this mean that you put your heater in the container overnight and the water has not warmed to the temperature you set your heater for?

If that's so, then either you heater is broken, or it's too small. You'll need at least a 150 watt heater in a 32 gallon container of water, maybe more. A 150 watt heater will take 12 hours or so to get to 84 F if it started at 55 F or so in a room that is between 60 and 65 degrees F.

As to when you can use it, you can use water that has been aerated overnight as soon as it is the same temperature as your tank. I like to have it a bit warmer than my tank water, because my holding tanks for aging water are in my basement, and I run a hose to my tank in my living room. The hose is a bit cold, so if the water starts out a bit warmer (1 degree) it ends up at the tank temperature when it enters the tank.

I use a waterfall pump to pump it up to my tank (see a long discussion on pumps in one of the thread on this site--do a search on pumps).

Carol_Roberts
05-23-2005, 03:24 PM
Your heater must not be big enough. I use 250 watt heaters in 50 gallons. Either yoru pH is stable or you are not agitating the water enough. Mine looks like it is boiling - it is very noisy!

lldewe
05-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Maybe it's not aerating enough. I'll see if I can get more out of it.

The heater is a 200 watt and it's the one I used in my 29 gallon tank for years. It works fine. But the water did start out cold so maybe it's just taking longer than I think it should...

Maybe I should try a water change on my guppies first?

Lorie

Greg Richardson
05-23-2005, 05:41 PM
You must have started out real cold if your heater working right.

lldewe
05-24-2005, 11:52 AM
Well, I got home yesterday and my water was nice and toasty! So the heater is fine. BUT, this morning after spending the night it was chilly again. I guess the heater just can't keep up wit the drop in temp. I'll have to get a bigger heater I guess...

Lorie

lldewe
05-25-2005, 01:53 PM
So, yesterday I thought, "this is it"! I did a 25% water change on one of my tanks with my OWN aged water. It worked so well!! The tank is clean, the fish are happy and I've solved the problem I've been fighting for months!!

Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions I've got happy discus!!

Cheers,
Lorie