I'm I heading in the right direction?

[Elcomico]

Here's the story,

I recently purchased 5 1.5" Royal blue f2 juvies from a trusted breeder. I introduced them to a cycled planted community tank

33G, 30°C, Ph 7.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, GH 10, KH 6, CO2 10, DIY CO2 injector, Aquaclear 300 with pre-filter

They were welcomed by 4 green tiger barbs (1"), 6 darf neon rainbows (1.5") and a 7" pleco. At first all was great. The discus were eating and not hiding much. They acted like the kings they are. They were fed tetra bits, blood worms and beefheart 3 or 4 times a day. After about 1 week things started to degrade. The discus were still eating but hiding more and more. The day I saw 1 that was almost all black and breathing heavily and another glued to the underside of a piece of wood I knew I had to act. None of the other fish showed any sign of stress or disease.

I prepared a bare bottom hospital tank and transfered the 5 juvies. I added table salt to the tank (2 table spoons in the 10G tank) and started 50% daily water changes (aged water and salt adjusted accordingly). The discus returned to their normal color, but are still quite shy and hardly eat. In fact they won't touch the bits no more and only nib at the beefheart.

Are my fish OK? Are they still recovering? Are they still sick? Should I do more?

My goal is to return them to the 33G ASAP. Well not exactly the same tank since I'm already in the middle of major changes. First, i took the pleco out and replaced him with a 1.5" big mouth pleco and 2 panda corrys. Then, I'm replacing the current gravel with neutral river gravel (a trusted friend assures me my current gravel contains small amounts of corral hence the high GH and Ph). A small layer of laterite will be used underneath the gravel since the plants are as important as the fish. The barbs and the rainbows will also be moved out. the tiger barbs, while pretty tame pose too high a risk of aggression. The rainbows are armless but cause way too much stress. I'm also in the process of moving from the aquaclear to a fluval 203. I'm just waiting for enough bacteria to be transfered (1 month should do).

Am i just heading out for disaster? Is there something wrong in my setup? I really want to accomodate these fish as much as i can, but need guidance or positive reinforcement.

Thanks for your help.

[funkyfish]

bare bottom tank is the way to go with juvies. and a bigger tank would help
i go by the 10 gal per fish rule. and lots of w\c's 50% or more daily
good luck

[gikkicat]

Did you quaratine your new fish for several weeks? It is very important, They are sitll very small to intoduce in a community tank.

Tony

[Carol_Roberts]

Sorry . . . Juveniles discus do not do very good in graveled, planted, community tanks with CO2 . . . . period. This is exactly how the discus react when water parameter fluctuate and water is not clean enough.
After about 1 week things started to degrade. The discus were still eating but hiding more and more. The day I saw 1 that was almost all black and breathing heavily and another glued to the underside of a piece of wood I knew I had to act. None of the other fish showed any sign of stress or disease

AS you noted they started out healthy and eating. All the rest of your community fish in the tank are fine and your discus improved somewhat when moved to a barebottom tank.

Put the discus in a barebottom 55 gallon with a cycled filter and do daily water changes. I'll bet you see a big improvement in their health.

[shaunn]

I have a planted, C02 injected tank, all that jazz, no problems... its a 75 gallon.

My guess is that the bioload suddenly increased and maybe your bacterial culture couldn't keep up with it. I would add another filter at least.

Lemme do some math... 7.5 inches of Discus (and growing), 4 inches of tiger barbs (seems small for barbs, maybe they are still growing), 9 inches of rainbows, 7 inches of Pleco... 27.5 inches total and growing.

That's a lot of fish.

[Elcomico]

Update

After a call to my breeder is suggested 2 things. Raise the temperature to 33°C (91.4°F) and move my 10G tank of the floor to someplace higher.

Well after 3 days, here's an update. The fish are all breathing normaly and still somewhat shy but do not eat (or hardly).

Can fish stop eating until they die?

[Carol_Roberts]

Yes - discus frequently stop eating until they die. Lack of appetite is the first symptom when water conditions are not optimum.

[Elcomico]

Good news! none of them died and they decided that eating was a fun thing to do.

As we speak, they're in a 33 gallon bare bottom, along with a panda corry who does a great job at breaking up the tetra bits. They're still not rushing to the top when i feed them blood worms, Beefheart is slowly but completly consumed when i come home from work. 33% water change is done daily

My question is when should I reduce the temperature back to 30° (from 33°C, or 91°F to 86°). Lets just say I'm afrais of doing anything that might have a negative impact on them now.

If i need to change the tremperare now, should I go down 1 degree per day or is this difference small enough that i can do it in 1 step (reducing the temperature on the heater and not dump colder water after a water change or course!)

Thanks to the board's continuing help and support

[tpl*co]

I have a planted, C02 injected tank, all that jazz, no problems... its a 75 gallon.

My guess is that the bioload suddenly increased and maybe your bacterial culture couldn't keep up with it. I would add another filter at least.

Lemme do some math... 7.5 inches of Discus (and growing), 4 inches of tiger barbs (seems small for barbs, maybe they are still growing), 9 inches of rainbows, 7 inches of Pleco... 27.5 inches total and growing.

That's a lot of fish.


I agree here too, that's a lot of fish for a 33 gallon tank. How often are you changing the water? That was a big increase in the bioload. I have some (8)juv. discus in a 30 gallon bare bottom now going through quarantine now and I find that even with a hang on back and 2 sponge filters I have to do a 80% water change at least daily.

[Elcomico]

Euh....

Right now in the 33 Gallon all I have are 5 1.5" discus and a half inch panda corry.

What should i do about the water temperature?

[shaunn]

Drop a degree every two days or so down to 30 degrees

[Carol_Roberts]

I think it's safe to go down 1 or 2 degrees Farenheit per day - in other words take three days to drop from 91 to 86F

[Elcomico]

Here's an update and new observations. The 5 juvies are doing OK. They eat but are only moderatly active. They're still in a 33 gallon bare bottom but I've reintroduced 2 pieces of driftwood (recomendation from the discus guy at a LFS). (water perfect, daily WC, etc)

Last night, I joined my girlfriend on the couch at 4am (none of us could sleep due to a heat wave...). To my absolute surprise, the 5 discus where actively swimming up and down the tank having a great time! They were acting exactly like I'd like them to act in the day time! (they usually hide under a piece of driftwood). Are they toying with me? :confused:

The lights where on but dimmed in the living room but the tank's lights where off. Are they getting too much light in the day time? I usualy adjust the tank's lighting to the local sun set/sun rise (there's light in the appartment anyways, what would the difference be?). Do the light in the tank make that much of a difference? Should I only use the tank's lights for a max of 12 hours per day?

Any advice would of course be welcome.

Sincerely,

SC

[Spices]

Sometimes the lighting is a strain but most times it does not bother the discus who is not shy. If it is a newbie then I would tone down the lights until the newbie feels comfortable.

What is the wattage amount?

*Angie**

[Carol_Roberts]

I only have the tank lights on a few hours in the eveing when I'm home and want to watch them.. I do keep a small room light on 24/7.

[Howie_W]

The lights where on but dimmed in the living room but the tank's lights where off. Are they getting too much light in the day time? I usualy adjust the tank's lighting to the local sun set/sun rise (there's light in the appartment anyways, what would the difference be?). Do the light in the tank make that much of a difference? Should I only use the tank's lights for a max of 12 hours per day?

Any advice would of course be welcome.

Sincerely,

SC

Hi SC,

Like most living creatures, fish require a portion of the day to be active, as well as having a time to rest.

I keep all my tank lights on timers set to come for 12 hours. It's not essential to have the lights on for that many hours, but is usually determined by your set-up, and your personal schedule. I keep plants in all my tanks and like to make sure they are getting enough light as well...hence the 12 hr. time frame. When the lights go out, there is usually a small night light on in the room to help reduce any stress when the tank lights come back on.

Looking ahead to the future...you should plan on moving your fish to a larger tank, as 33 gallons is too small for your Discus as they grow larger. Also make sure they are only fed what they will eat within a short time frame (aprox. five minutes or less). Any uneaten food should be siphoned out to help insure your tank stays clean.


Howie

[Elcomico]

Here's another update (perhaps this post is a personal Discus blog!)

Note to self: Don't micro-manage

Since my girlfiend spent a week at home at the end of June, things have started to make sense. All my observations where made early in the morning or later at night. If I where in the tank, I'd probably be shy in the morning and tired at night (therefore not very active...).

My discus have been fine for longer that I thought. They had only been visibly healthy during the day time, you know, when I'm not home. Since realizing that fact with the help of my GF I adjusted the start/end time and the duration of my lighting. Since I made these changes I can actualy watch my fish without fearing something's wrong.

The 5 juvies are still discreet when there's too much action, but are slowly growing into what I hope will be beautiful adult specimen.

Thanks for the help