Ammonia levels Day 6

[traco]

I have set up my tank with a seeded Fluval 303 and have a Hydro IV sponge coming this week for filtration. I have some seeded gravel from my 20 gallon in the tank also.

I added Stress Zyme when I set up the tank. Today, Day 6, the levels are

ammonia - .25
nitrite - below .3
KH/Alkalinity value was .92 which if I did the calculations correctly is:

KH value in kKH- 14.7
Alk in meq/L- 5.25

I will add some neons to help with the process and will take them out when I get my discus.

After reading tons, I'm re-thinking my tank. I should take out the gravel and I would like to add a couple of potted plants for now. I think in 2 weeks I should be okay for adding the discus providing the levels are okay. Water changes twice a week with vacuuming. I want to add 6 discus to this tank along with a plecos.

Would an Emperor 400 along with the other two filtrations be too much filtration? Or okay with just the sponge and Fluval? I want to do the best for the discus to keep them happy and healthy.

Thanks also to Barb Newell for her help. I'm going to probably get 2 each of the rose reds, snakeskins and blue turqs.

Thanks again for all your help and comments. Much appreciated. All pros and cons welcome :)

[ed8t]

If you have access to clear household ammonia, I would do a fishless cycle to speed up the cycling process. I don't think a few neons would generate the same amount of waste 6 discus eventually would.

I use an Aquaclear 500 with sponge and biomax with 2 Hydro IV's in a 65 with 10 discus with no water quality problems. I don't know about the Emperor but if you don't mind all the equipment in the tank, it probably wouldn't hurt.

[Alight]

Sorry, the post above beat me to it. Do what he says.

Where is the ammonia and nitrites coming from? Do you have fish in the tank, or are you using fishless cycling?

Neons are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrites, and might not survive if you add them now. I'd let the levels go to zero before you add them.

20 gallons is pretty small for 6 Discus. 30 would work, if you plan to give away or sell all but 2 as they grow to adulthood.

[ed8t]

is this a 70 gallon tank?

[traco]

This is a 70 gallon tank I am cycling. It is a fishless cycle with the ammonia and nitrites coming from the Stress Zyme which is supposed to help start things. I got a bit of a jump also using the fluval which was running on my 20 gallon. I also took water from the 20 gallon to help. I'll be doing another water change on the 20 and topping up the water in the 70 gallon.

So, doing the fishless cycle and adding ammonia is better than using Stress Zyme and the scenario I've been doing? Can you add ammonia along with the Stress Zyme?

Adding a third filtration is or is not needed? Is "the more, the better" saying apply in having a discus tank? Is it worth the additional money or save it for purchasing fish?

[ed8t]

I'm sorry, I've never used Stress Zyme. I've used Cycle from Hagen - never decreased the cycling time so I don't bother anymore. IMO, you could cycle your tank much faster with ammonia especially if you have seeded filter media. I don't see why you can't use ammonia with Stress Zyme because the fish will eventually produce ammonia anyways albeit in smaller quantities.

3rd filter - dunno, you'll have to watch your water parameters. If you use quality high bio capacity media in your fluval ie. biomax it should be encough to handle the bio-load in your tank. Alot of discus keepers just use a couple of sponge filters. If you do enough water changes and I do suggest using a prefilter on the fluval, that should take care of the mechanical filtration side of things.

[Carol_Roberts]

Clear ammonia at 3 - 5 ppm will do it. Don't add neons. I've never used stress Zyme. Monitor ammonia and nitrIte levels. Add more ammonia if it goes below 3 ppm. The fluval is already fully cycled. You are trying to cycle the sponge filter and /or emperor 400. I would remove the gravel and use the fully cycled sponge filter and emperor on the discus tank.

Remember to do a 90%+ water change prior to adding discus.

[Northwestcoastdisc]

HI ,

I would never use anything add in my tank. When ammonia is too high. I would do large water change at 90% to check if ammonia is still high for next day I would do 90% W/C. The next 2 day how is water quaitly. I would recommand you do is W/C at 50% every day for 2 weeks for build up cycle system to make your water quaitly.

i agree with ed8t and Carol Roberts suggestion.

HTH

Duncan

[Alight]

OK, now I get it. OK, 70 gallon tank is fine for 6 Discus.

You should have no ammonia or nitrites from the stress zyme itself, but it may be giving you false readings. Forget the stress zyme and do what Carol says and add clear household ammonia. You can buy it at Walmart as the cheapest stuff you can find. You don't want ammonia with detergent in it.

To get 3 - 5 ppm, you'll need about 40 or 50 drops of the ammonia. Start with 30, measure the ammonia, then add 10 more, etc. until you get to 3-5 ppm. Your tank should cycle quickly if you are using a cycled filter, but you are trying to get to the point where your tank will use up 40 or 50 drops of ammonia a day. I other words, you'll put in 50 drops one day, and the next morning it will read zero--nitrites should also read zero the next day.

When you have acheived this, change 100% of the water and you are ready for your fish. You should put fish in within 24 hours of this last water change or your biofilter will begin to decrease again.

Don't use the neons. They will only die because of the ammonia you already have in your tank, or will die from the heat you should be keeping the Discus at (84 F or even higher). They also produce so little ammonia that they are not a good break-in fish anyway, for 6 Discus.

[traco]

I ended up not adding any fish for achieving the cycle. Was afraid of bringing in something to the tank like ick or something else. Would rather go the fishless route and not worry about diseases!

Got my hydro sponge today. Ordered Friday morning and received it today, Tuesday!! Fast. So now have that running in the tank also. I'll go looking tomorrow for the ammonia you guys are talking about. I guess patience really is a virtue! Who'd of figured I'd go from from "hurry, would like to get some fish" to "okay, get the bacteria up, check parameters, research, etc... "?

Thanks again.

[traco]

Oops, forgot to ask. Is running an Emperor 400 quieter than having a Fluval running? Hang on back better for filtration and ease of cleaning rather than a canister?

[Carol_Roberts]

Hang on the back is better than canister

[hexed]

Why is your fluval making noises? I never know if mine is on or not. If it's making a rattling sound push down on it and shake it. You have air inside the canister. Other than that it shouldn't make a noise.

[hexed]

Traco,
email me at tiger9@aol.com