thought I was good for go

[traco]

Tank (figured it out to be a 65 gallon) is 3 weeks old, cycled with fluval which was running a 20 gallon, some gravel from that tank and water from that tank. Have Hydro sponge running in the tank. My ammonia and nitrite levels are showing 0. Nitrate is below 5. My PH is high 7.5 (well water, I believe). Some swords and a few other plants in the tank also. Lighting is two 55 watt power compacts. Temperature is 82.

I put two clown loaches in the tank. They are fine but discus and loaches don't really get along? I'll take them out but I want to make sure everything will be fine to handle five discus at once. Should I start a fishless cycle again? Will the plants and media be okay by dosing with ammonia? Should I maybe push the gravel to along the back of the tank for the plants and have most of the bottom clear for ease of cleaning for the juveniles? I will vacuum the gravel when doing water changes.

I've been corresponding with Barb Newell and hope to get some discus from her. She was the one who alerted me about the clown loaches. I sure don't want to have a unstable tank and get some fish from her and then the tank crashes and the fish die.

Input would be appreciated. I didn't know as it got closer to getting the fish, the more I'm nervous about tank parameters, etc... :) I really want to make sure I'm doing everything right before I get the fish.

Thanks.

Barb

[RyanH]

82 might be a bit cool for Discus. I would bump it up to 84. I have a planted tank with swords, ferns, etc. and they do just fine at that temperature.

The pH is a non-issue as long as it's stable.

Loaches are a social fish and do better in groups just like Discus. They are also almost always wild-caught which means that a strict quarantine of at least 6 weeks should be mandatory before introducing Discus. Preventative treatments on your loaches for parasites and bacteria would also not be a bad idea.

Also, do you intend to buy adults for your planted tank? You are setting yourself up for problems if you are intending to grow out juveniles in that environment.


JMHO

-Ryan

[traco]

Well, I am hoping to get some fish from Barb Newell around 3". Is that still classed as juveniles? When does a person put gravel into the tank? How big/long do the fish have to be to safely do gravel? So, what about moving the gravel to along the back and the rest bare?

And fishless cycle? Start that over again with adding the ammonia, testing levels, etc.... ? And doing it this way will pretty much guarantee that adding five fish will be no problem? I know to do water changes daily and testing and doing a big water change the day before I get my fish.

Thanks again.

Barb

[RyanH]

3" is still a juvenile fish unless it is a runt. I'm sure that Barb wouldn't send you runts though. :D

I really like to grow my fish out as large as they are capable of growing. Not everybody feels this way. I keep my fish in barebottom tanks until I am happy with their size and health and fell confident in my ability to maintain the water quality in a showtank that will allow them to thrive. This can take some patience.

You need to decide for yourself what size fish you would be happy with. It is also good to keep in mind that are many more variables in a gravel tank to consider when trying to keep up your water quality. It is simply far more difficult to maintain the high water quality in this environment that young Discus need to thrive.

I have a 150 gallon planted showtank set up right now that I'm still messing around with. My goal is to eventually fill it with wilds. I won't add them until I am absolutely confident that they are going to be living in the best possible conditions that I can provide for them... so I'm taking my time. I would also like to put some more size on them. IME, getting good growth is very difficult in the showtank environment.

The tank has a sand substrate and some driftwood. For fish, I have German Blue Rams, Cardinal Tetras, and some Corydoras. Everything that has gone into this tank is from different sources and all have the potential for bringing in disease. I have been adding some runts and culls to the tank to see how they do with both the potential disease problems and also with my maintenence regiment.

I guess my point is this: take your time and act in the best interests of your fish. Like all pets, your Discus depend on you for their every need. I would strongly recommend growing them out in a barebottom tank. This will give you time to learn about Discus and the husbandry skills needed to care for them properly. It will also give you time to research how to put together an incredible showtank that can also be a healthy environment for them to really thrive.

As a fairly long-time member here and a former moderator, I've read countless stories of people who, in their enthusiasm, have set themselves up for failure by jumping into things too quickly. particularly when it comes to showtanks.

hth
-Ryan

[traco]

Thanks Ryan, for the info/help. I have just spent the last hour catching the clown loaches and taking out most of the gravel. I took some pics before and after but haven't the faintest on how to post them :) I could send them to your email address?

I have put all the plants in one back corner with gravel. The rest of the tank is now bare bottom with the hydro sponge over in the other corner and the canister running also (which has a pre-filter on). Murky right now but that will settle down. This should be a better setup for juveniles? I will be vacuuming the gravel in the corner when doing water changes. I took out a lot of gravel!!

So this should be okay? I'll let Barb Newell know what my setup is now and hopefully, can get some fish soon.

Should I start from scratch with a fishless cycle? I would think the cycle would not be as long?

Barb

[Evan]

I agree. I use barebottom tanks. In the near future I am hoping to move some grown discus to a tank with potted plants.


You will understand why many like BB tanks when you get a group of Discus in there and see how much waste they produce. (for royalty they sure are dirty ;) )

I also find it helpful that you are able to get a good look at all the fish and make sure they are eating and passing waste properly.

Barb will give you great fish.

[RyanH]

Thanks Ryan, for the info/help. I have just spent the last hour catching the clown loaches and taking out most of the gravel. I took some pics before and after but haven't the faintest on how to post them :) I could send them to your email address?

I have put all the plants in one back corner with gravel. The rest of the tank is now bare bottom with the hydro sponge over in the other corner and the canister running also (which has a pre-filter on). Murky right now but that will settle down. This should be a better setup for juveniles? I will be vacuuming the gravel in the corner when doing water changes. I took out a lot of gravel!!

So this should be okay? I'll let Barb Newell know what my setup is now and hopefully, can get some fish soon.

Should I start from scratch with a fishless cycle? I would think the cycle would not be as long?

Barb


Good deal Barb. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: I really think you're going to thank yourself in the long run.

If you want to keep your plants in the tank, I would go pick up some clay pots to plant them in. Use the gravel to anchor them but remove all of the gravel from your tank bottom. Clean the bottom and the glass and change all of the water. You are good to go!

As far as cycling goes, that is up to you. If they are cycled for the bioload of the loaches then they are at least started. You can do larger water changes until they have had time to catch up with the larger bioload of the incoming Discus. I would play it safe and test for ammonia and nitrites regularly until they read zero for you. This way you know what's going on and are not running blind.

-Ryan

[RyanH]

BTW, if you don't have fish ordered/ in the mail yet, you can always add some ammonia to keep the filter going until you get your fish. It certainly won't hurt. :D

I believe that you are going to want to do a couple of teaspoons per 10 gallons of water of plain ammonia. No scents, colors, or flavors.

And finally, (and then I'll shut up :D ) watch your canister filter closely. They can get dirty very quickly and will spoil your water in no time flat. Keep up the maintenence by cleaning it from time to time with warm, dechlorinated water or better yet water from your tank.

-Ryan

[traco]

I will add that to my tank. Going to get some pots also. I have a pre-filter on the canister but will check the innards for debris. I may still get a Aqua Clear just for ease of cleaning and no priming needed :)

Oh, and no need to shut up. I appreciate the help from you guys. Now if I had just started out with bare bottom ....

Barb

[RyanH]

Hey Barb,

The Aquaclear would be a great investment for you. Besides being much easier to maintain, the biofilter will also not die within a short period of time if they are turned off for any reason. In a pressurized canister, oxygen has no way to get to your nitrifying bacteria. It will quickly die if the power goes out.

hth
-Ryan

[Carol_Roberts]

Hey - we're thrilled that you're getting adivce before you've bought your discus! You are open minded and willing to learn from other's experience. I think you'll do just fine with discus :)