Jumpy Discus

[markwill]

New poster at work! And one who is very pleased to have found SimplyDiscus :-) I reckon I'll be posting (and certainly reading) a lot here!

I have recently set up my first discus tank (at least in recent history - I kept discus as a kid 20+ years ago and again 14 or so years back). I purchased my first discus last Friday and the four I purchased seem to be settling in. The good news is that they are beginning to eat (flakes and frozen bloodworm).

Slightly more concerning is that they appear pretty jumpy - but not consistently. For example, yesterday (24 hours or so after going into their new home) they were swimming as a group along the front of the tank as my (delighted) family watched on. However, today they have been much more reserved - spending ages behind one of two sets of higher plants in the tank and, when someone so much as enters they room at least one of them goes bombing for cover as if the world is about to cave in!

I would actually have been more understanding if they were jumpy all the time (at least for now, since they just got a new home, water, etc) but their behavior yesterday suggested they were very comfortable. Is it to be expected that they will be "inconsistently jumpy"?

A few more details: I have 4 discus (a blue diamond, tangerine and two red ribbons) from 2.5 to 3 inches. I also have 4 serpae tetra, 4 silver tipped tetras and two albino catfish. 72 gallon tank, nitrates and nitrates reading zero, ammonia reading 0.5 but this is presumably because I used Prime. pH is 6.6 and the temperature is 82. I did a 25% water change yesterday (after their "happy swimming show") and another today of around 20%.

Thanks.

Mark

[Greg Richardson]

Mark. Welcome to SD! This place the best imo for learning.
Give your fish some more time to settle in.

Might take month or so to get use to the shadows created in tank when someone walks buy.

One thing I'd definetly do though is raise your temp to 84 mininum.
I run mine 86.
You'll find all kinds of opinions what the proper temp is to run but at least 84.

I'd also do at least 30% wc.
I do mininum 50%, normally 70%.

One thing I've learned here is water changes are like location in realestate.
Makes huge difference. You will actually notice after you get use to your fish personalities how much happier they seem to be with larger wc's.

[markwill]

Mark. Welcome to SD! This place the best imo for learning.
Give your fish some more time to settle in.

Might take month or so to get use to the shadows created in tank when someone walks buy.

One thing I'd definetly do though is raise your temp to 84 mininum.
I run mine 86.
You'll find all kinds of opinions what the proper temp is to run but at least 84.

I'd also do at least 30% wc.
I do mininum 50%, normally 70%.

One thing I've learned here is water changes are like location in realestate.
Makes huge difference. You will actually notice after you get use to your fish personalities how much happier they seem to be with larger wc's.
Thank you for your prompt response, Greg. Much appreciated. The question of water changes remains somewhat confusing to me. Specifically, there seems to be a sense that regular and large water changes are "good". Doesn't it depend on the condition of the water being used? I believe I live in an area where the tap water is quite well suited, at least in relative terms, to keeping discus (pretty soft, etc). Surely the benefit of a water change depends heavily on the new water going in doesn't it? For example, if I lived in an area with very hard water wouldn't water changes have less benefit.

In addition, "more is better" seems to be a common statement for water changes. Taking that to its logical conclusion, isn't 100% good? :-) (I know that's not true - just trying to make a point). Again, if I have "generally" good water in the tank (right pH, all the right readings, etc) then doesn't a water change have the potential to mess with that water in a negative way?

Sorry if these are overly basic questions but the "bigger, more regular water changes is good" statements remain a tad confusing to me.

Thanks for the tip on the temperature. I'll give that a shot (I'm assuming it's compatible with the other fish I have mentioned). BTW, does anyone know a "fish reference" where I can easily look up desired pH, temperature, etc for a particular species?

Thanks again.

Mark

[Anonapersona]

100% would be good, it'd be just like living in a river, wouldn't it?

Yes, you are also correct that each water change is an opportunity to mess something up, maybe the water company decided to flush the lines with something to clean it really well. Maybe you'll forget to turn the filter back on.

But, the fish will really appreciate it. And jumpiness can be an indiacator of a need for a water change.

[Greg Richardson]

Mark. Some people have drip systems which is constant change of water.
I saw Aprils drip system very nice.
The rest of us though need to do wc.
From what I've learned you want two factors consistant when it comes to wc's.
PH and Temp same as the water in your tank before changing your water.
Most obtain this by using storage containers. I use Brute Rubbermaid cans.
I use prime to get rid of chlorine.
Also wipe down sides of tank, Airlines, etc.

I think you'll enjoy reading this section.............
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=35

[Barb Newell]

Hi Mark, welcome to SD :wave:

Was your tank fully cycled when you got your discus? I agree with Anonapersona, sometimes skittishness can be a sign of bad water (ammonia or nitrites). I'd increase water changes until your bacteria has time to adjust.


ammonia reading 0.5 but this is presumably because I used Prime

I don't use Prime, does it give a false ammonia reading?

Barb

[RyanH]

Mark,

Welcome to Simply. :)

As long as you keep you pH stable, it doesn't really matter what it is. The "Discus need low pH" myth is just that... a myth. Many here keep their fish in pH's >8 with no problems what so ever.

As far as water changes go, you'll want to do them with aged water so you don't have to worry about swings in pH. This is an area that can cause problems for you.

Why are water changes beneficial?

Simply put: Discus require very clean water to to do well. They're from remote areas of the Amazon that are very secluded and almost completely devoid of nutrients, much less impurities or excessive bacteria. It is also constantly being replaced by the flow of the rivers and the daily rainfall. In a small, closed system like a fish tank, they are trapped in they're own waste and vulnerable to disease, sickness, and stunting as such.

Even if Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are low or non-existent (which is almost never the case, even if your test kit tells you so), you still need to be concerned with bacterial buildups in the water. This is particularly true in a planted tank with substrate.

Juveniles tend to be more sensitive to water quality than adults. Most people have stopped trying to grow out Discus in showtanks because it is so very difficult to maintain the pristine water that they require to grow and thrive. I only keep young Discus in barebottom tanks. I have a planted tank with adults but I've had many miserable failures in my early Discus days trying to keep juveniles in a planted, substrate tank. It just doesn't work out for most people.

Finally, Discus can be skittish and jumpy at random. Before I started covering my tanks carefully, I had a couple of fish jump right out of the tank in the middle of the night for no apparent reason. This is especially true when they are getting settled in a new tank and a new home with unfamiliar people. I try to keep my tanks from facing any windows in my apartment as the shadows will often competely freak them out. If the jumping does continue, you may want to check your heater for stray voltage. This is a common culprit as are parasite infections. Both can make Discus freak out.

Give them some time though and before you know it, they will be literally eating out of your hand and begging for food whenever you walk in the room. :D

hth
-Ryan

[Carol_Roberts]

This is why we have a storage container to "age" our change water - so it is the same temperature and pH as the tank water. Then you can do 100% water changes. My fish are used to GH 12 and pH 7.8+. They like big water changes with my moderately hard water. I make sure the tank water and change water are the same parameters . . . only the change water is CLEAN - no disolved organics, partially eaten food and bits of feces . . . it's like the difference between recycled air in an airplane and fresh air from outside.


*looks like Ryan and I were posting at the same time ;)

[markwill]

Wow - what an incredible forum!!! Who needs general newsgroups when I can quick, greatly informed answers like this in about an hour on a Sunday evening :-) Thanks everyone - greatly appreciated. Of course, I have more questions...


How does one get "aged water". Just a bucket with a heater and some chemicals to get the right conditions as the tank (pH, etc)?
Dumb question - how does everyone actually DO the water change? It took a little while to convince the wife that I could keep the floor dry when I do water change - the tank is in a prime position in the living room. I bought one of those long syphon things for draining and adding (direct from the tap). I do this very slowly, to reduce temperate shock, but since I can control this easily from the tap the effort is very low.
Anonapersona said that I might forget to turn the filter back on? Why would I have turned it off in the first place? (I have a Fluval 404)
Prime does give a false ammonia reading. I read somewhere ammonia is chemically impossible in "low pH" (< 7.0). Is that really true?


This is so much fun - my discus are back swimming around the front while I get answers about keeping them here.

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

You need to read through all the stickied posts at the top of the beginner section - also look in the beginner index. I have written several articles here and at www.discusnada.org on basic discus care :)