Plan for power outages (wrong filter?)

[markwill]

I am looking to come up with a "plan" I can execute when power outages occur. This is not at all uncommon in my neck of the woods (Woodinville, WA) during the winter and they vary from a few mins to a few days (one lasted 2 1/2 days).

The longer outages obviously require a significant effort or expenditure. Thinking about that one :-) In the meanwhile, my bigger concern is actually the "transparent" outage. Let's say I go to work and no-one is around the house from, say, 9am to 4pm. At 9:01 am we have a power cut, which lasts for 6 hours. My Fluval 404 will be out of action for that time but would, presumably, start up again automatically when the power returns. We have no awareness of the start or end of this outage because we're out.

As I understand, the bacteria in the Fluval will pretty much all die without oxygen over a 6 hour period. And "bad things happen" (dead fish?) if the filter is just restarted without live bacteria (is this all correct?).

What's the solution here? I have read that a canister filter like a Fluval 404 would not retain the bacteria but this issue is less evident with other types of filters. For the aforementioned "transparent" power outage (I don't know about it) what is the best approach? I know the choice of filters generate some "debate" - but did I buy the wrong type, given my likelihood of power loss?

I have the same type of questions about heaters. A UPS wouldn't last the full 6 hours in the above scenario to keep the heater going would it (especially in a cold house that has lost it's heating). Thoughts?

Thanks.

Mark

[raglanroad]

We have a thread about this, I will get it for you. There is something called deep cell battery( i think) which can be recharged in your car if the outage lasts long. The UPS can be OK, if you just run air pumps. I think the route with that is central air, from a linear pump, to reduce power wastage. For heaters in winter, that might be tough. Insulating the tanks would help. My first plan, as we are expecting it to happen in the heat wave, is to never cover tanks with stuff, only egg crate on top.
The last power outage resulted in my fish jumping out of the tank when the flashlight strayed across it.
One thing , in apartment buildings, you can run extension cords to the hallway outlets (emergency power generator in buildings). It would only be a matter of time until the complaints came, but for me, 3 hrs of hallway power saved my overcrowded tanks.
As another twist, consider the Kordon Breathing Bags. With some amquel, fish can live 6 weeks in a bag with no air. This would reduce your tank fish load, if half the fish were out of the tank, in bags. Also easy to transport the fish to the warmest place in the house.
Dave

[korbi_doc]

:D Hi, I have the system set-up Dave is referring to. The 26w linear air pump thru pvc thru-out the house to all tanks for constant air to airstones & sponge filters. The back-up is the Tripp Lite APS 512 with a deep-cycle battery... works great, no worries bout air in the tanks, about 24hrs with 1 battery, can add more..or recharge with my truck.. John @ www.Jehmco.com (http://www.jehmco.com/) fixed me up with this system & I love it. One could add the heaters as well, would take more input, but you could do it when you get home to the problem. I have a propane fireplace to help in an emergency, but you could use any propane or nat'l gas heater with a thermostat for emergencies. My tanks all have styrofoam insulation on the bottom & back also...'Course a generator would be terrific, but I don't have one yet, plan that when I get to Tennessee in my new home & fishroom :rolleyes2 . HTH, Dottie

[korbi_doc]

:shocked: oops! sorry, forgot your filter question.. I'm using Aqua-clears, 300 & 500s, sponges for filters, open to the air, so no problem when they're restarted, so safer in the long run & much easier to clean than the canisters, which are closed systems..my system has been challenged about 4 X over the last 12 mos...:rolleyes2
Sounds like your situation would be one for the automatic switch-over generator, even a small one just for the fish, or a whole-house generator, no worries with that one... Dottie

[Carol_Roberts]

Use airdriven sponge filters in the tank like Hydro V. The bacteria live even if the power is out for a couple of days. Another plus is you do not have to worry about dead bacteria being pumped into the tank if the power is off for several hours and you don't have to worry about your filter losing it siphon.

[Cosmo]

check.. air driven sponge filters will last the longest, and yes, dead bacteria in cannister filters create toxins that are not good for the fish if the filter starts up again before you can rinse the media.

The Tripp Lite system is excellent, a little pricey, but worth the bucks if you've got a lot invested in live stock. I also have one from Jehmco, it automatically charges the battery then kicks in the battery power if the house current goes off - you don't have to be there :) With my one group 31 gell cell deep cycle battery hooked up to it.. I calculate that in an outage it will keep 3 eheims and the 2 air pumps alive for about 18 - 20 hours.

Nice thing about this setup, is you can add more batteries in series and get up to several days protection. You can find the Tripp Lites on the web for less than John sells them, but you know you can trust John, don't know about the others ?

Jim

[markwill]

check.. air driven sponge filters will last the longest, and yes, dead bacteria in cannister filters create toxins that are not good for the fish if the filter starts up again before you can rinse the media.Jim
Thanks Jim. Presumably, if I rinse the media don't I effectively restart the cycle, which will lead to a different set of problems? Specifically, even though I rinse out toxic-causing bacteria this leaves me with no bacteria - and hence nothing to take care of ammonia and nitrites.

What's strange to me (now I understand more) is why the canister filter is so popular, given these constraints. Surely anyone with one is a single power cut (at the wrong time, namely when there is no-one home) away from killing all the fish in the tank, at least when there is no backup power supply.

Thanks.

Mark

[Anonapersona]

I run a battery powered air pump that is off until it senses the main power is off, then it turns on. I have this line going into the Hydro Sponge alongside the regular air line. When the main power is off the back up unit comes on, so even though the Penguin 330 and the HOT 250 are off, the sponge filter is going.

Now, when the power returns, the HOT and the Penguin will start right up. The HOT has been with out air for a while and so may be nasty, the Penguin has a lot of air exposure and so it is probably not so bad. In any case, I still have my trusty digital clock that has reset itself to 12:00 when the power returned so I will eventually realize the power was out. When I see that, the first thing I do is add a dose of Prime to the tank. Then I probably will do a water change, but maybe not, maybe I'll just pop a micron filter in the HOT and run that awhile, or maybe not, depends on how the fish look.

Now, as for temp, you need to insulate as much of that tank as possible using 1/2" insulating boards or whatever you can get, the more concerned you are, the more sides you ought to insulate. Bottom, back, and both sides maybe. Maybe even part of the top if you can manage, for a lot of heat will go out there.

[Carol_Roberts]

Canisters aren't popular with me - I got rid of all of mine.

[Anonapersona]

I've been thinking about the canister vs sponge filter.... and I'm not that sure what the difference is really. I look at the Eheim ECCO, as it comes from the company it is full of sponges only. If you turn the power off to either, you have a bunch of sponges underwater with no circulation.

The only difference is really the tubing and the housing, so if you like to wipe the tank and everything every week, then those things do make it harder, a lot harder, to clean. And, it will matter how often you clean the canister, of course. I have two canisters on one discus tank, and 10 weeks between cleaning is too long, I need to go to monthly I think. The canister is not all that dirty, but the tubings are, and so the water is not as clear as I'd like it.

[Carol_Roberts]

. . . during a power outage I think that sponges in a 55 gallon aquarium get more oxygen than sponges sealed in an airtight canister . . . . the bacteria stays alive for much longer on sponges inside the aquarium (days vs. hours in a canister)

[Anonapersona]

. . . during a power outage I think that sponges in a 55 gallon aquarium get more oxygen than sponges sealed in an airtight canister . . . . the bacteria stays alive for much longer on sponges inside the aquarium (days vs. hours in a canister)

Umm, I suppose because the sponge in the tank is exposed to a lot more water carrying oxygen than the sponge in the canister... OK, that makes sense. Plus there will be some oxygen getting in from the top of the tank, where the canister is sealed, OK.

[tpl*co]

How do you make a second air line going to the sponge and the battery powered pump? (I'm assuming the Azoo?) do you have it going to the stone is it t-ed in? Diagrams please! :). I just have mine going to a separate stone, but like the idea of going to the sponge better.

[Anonapersona]

Somewhere around here is a photo of a sponge that several people use, Aggie_67 made one for me, I think DanDman made them also, I think others have used the same plan.

It has 1" PVC pipe vertical, then a 90 degree angle, then a Hydro V sponge set over slots in the PVC, then a cap. The regular line goes in the top of the PVC and is held in place by some sort of cable tie, there may be an airstone on it, I can't tell. I stuff the extra line in alongside the regular line, since the thing is made with 1" PVC, there is room. The whole thing is attached to the wall of the tank with a heater holder so it is easy to clean under.

Sorry I don't have a photo or diagram, maybe someone else can show one.

[john480]

you need a tee and two check vavles

[dishpanhands]

my air pump has battery backup built in. if the power goes off my air pump never stops.
here is a link to the one i have . i didn't get it here but you can see it.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=8120&N=2004+113029

[Anonapersona]

This is cheaper, and would use a T-connector as John480 said (now, why didn't I think of that!)

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=28865;category_id=3956;pcid 1=1623;pcid2=

[tpl*co]

This is cheaper, and would use a T-connector as John480 said (now, why didn't I think of that!)

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=28865;category_id=3956;pcid 1=1623;pcid2=


That's the type I have. What do you mean by T-contector? Would you have both pumps teed into 1 stone that's in the sponge? What about multiple sponge tanks? Would I need 2 battery back-ups or just 1? Sorry for the dumb questions :).

[Anonapersona]

That's the type I have. What do you mean by T-contector? Would you have both pumps teed into 1 stone that's in the sponge? What about multiple sponge tanks? Would I need 2 battery back-ups or just 1? Sorry for the dumb questions :).

Lets' ask John480, it's his idea. I think he means two pumps, each line with a check valve on it, into a T to the single stone in the sponge.

Mine is just stuffed into the tubing near the stone, in the general area, not attached to the stone at all, as it is just a back up thing, not in use often. No check valves, no T.

[john480]

as per your set up .it would be 2 pumps 2 check vavles 1tee .if you have one pump that doesnt turn on till power goes out,
I run a battery powered air pump that is off until it senses the main power is off, then it turns on. I have this line going into the Hydro Sponge alongside the regular air line. When the main power is off the back up unit comes on, so even though the Penguin 330 and the HOT 250 are off, the sponge filter is going.

Now, when the power returns, the HOT and the Penguin will start right up. The HOT has been with out air for a while and so may be nasty, the Penguin has a lot of air exposure and so it is probably not so bad. In any case, I still have my trusty digital clock that has reset itself to 12:00 when the power returned so I will eventually realize the power was out. When I see that, the first thing I do is add a dose of Prime to the tank. Then I probably will do a water change, but maybe not, maybe I'll just pop a micron filter in the HOT and run that awhile, or maybe not, depends on how the fish look.

Now, as for temp, you need to insulate as much of that tank as possible using 1/2" insulating boards or whatever you can get, the more concerned you are, the more sides you ought to insulate. Bottom, back, and both sides maybe. Maybe even part of the top if you can manage, for a lot of heat will go out there.

[tpl*co]

Do you think one of the battery powered pumps can run 2 sponges, or I'll need one for each sponge in the tanks (can you see where I'm going here, they'll all take an outlet if I need to put one pump to each sponge :)). On the downside they don't seem that powerful so I'm wondering if it could manage 2 sponges per pump?

[raglanroad]

We have to worry most about hot weather outage right now. So the sponge filters are great because if you don't put an airstone on it, the large bubbles make quite an increased surface area on the tank. Small bubbles are not a bigger supplier of oxygen than increased surface area due to big bubbles. And canister filters would take more power than central air, right? You can even have a garden hose run the emergency air to another room if necessary.
Dave

[tlum]

Did anyone try invertor? It can convert a 12V DC to 110V AC and can run the regular air pump. Any experience?

Terry

[Anonapersona]

One thought on the battery air pump.... I've read that in order to maximize the battery life, one ought to remove the airstone as it offers great resistance to flow. That is one small factor in favor of just stuffing the spare line in alongside the main line, but not attempting to attach it to the stone.

[Cosmo]

Been gone for awhile and this topic has sure taken off :)

Problem (as I see it) with the battery backup air pumps sold at drsfostersmith and bigalsonline is that they have very limited capacity. They are probably great for short outages, but anything prolonged, like the power goes off right after you leave for work, and you're out of luck before you get home.

Nice thing about the deep cycle battery setup is you can configure this puppy to run virtually everything for up to days at a time, depending on how much money you want to sink into it.

As I said, 1 battery on mine will run 3 eheims and 2 large air pumps for up to about 20 hours before it dies out.. during that time, if need be, I can run an extension to the car and use an inverter to run the system.

True, these setups cost more than the battery backup pumps, but, considering the cost of the livestock you may have is it really worth it to risk losing them all to save money on a backup air supply that may not do the job :confused:

My setup costs roughly the same as 5 adult Discus and it will save 21 plus anymore I aquire. The battery backup airpump costs about the same as 1 or 2 juvies and you could lose everything if the battery dies before the power comes back on :confused:

Think it's called a cost/benefit analysis :D

As for temp, the bigger the tank, the slower it will cool down. If it's the dead of winter you'll need to insulate it, but if it's summer you probably don't have to worry.

Jim

[Anonapersona]

Been gone for awhile and this topic has sure taken off :)

Problem (as I see it) with the battery backup air pumps sold at drsfostersmith and bigalsonline is that they have very limited capacity. They are probably great for short outages, but anything prolonged, like the power goes off right after you leave for work, and you're out of luck before you get home.

Jim

Oh, if it is on a single tank it will run for a very, very long time. I'll guess more than 70 hours, I've had mine going at every water change for well over 6 months and it often takes an hour to get the power back on again since I don't turn power back on until the tank is totally full. It has run overnight when my better half did water changes for me when I was out of town (oops!) and I have yet to replace batteries after almost a year.

But, for multiple tanks, or if you need to run heaters, you really want that power converter, no doubt. And I agree, it really depends on the costs of the fish involved.

[tpl*co]

I agree, the batteries last a long time. I got mine when they were going to redo the electric poles by my house. They ran all day, I then used them to transport fish and for other outages and they are still going. They'd last several days on a battery easily, I'd wager.

[Anonapersona]

I agree, the batteries last a long time. I got mine when they were going to redo the electric poles by my house. They ran all day, I then used them to transport fish and for other outages and they are still going. They'd last several days on a battery easily, I'd wager.

Ha! And I used cheap dollar store batteries! I thought they'd go out really soon, but not yet.

[Cosmo]

:o I stand corrected :o lol

Jim

[john2gs]

Hello,

I have a 1050 VA/705 watt UPS (uninterruptible power supply).

My two canisters (25 watts each), and a 2 watt air pump are attached to my UPS. In the picture you will see three canisters. The two canisters are mainly for biological filtration..and the other one is mainly for mechanical filtration. Only the two biological filters...are attached to the UPS.

I am also concerned about any black-outs that might occur while I go to work.

With my set-up, the UPS will be able to run the two canisters and the air pump for about 4 hours. This will prevent any deaths of the beneficial bacteria.....during black outs. Hopefully, the black out will not last long..and I'll be home by then...to manually pump air/02 into my system.....

[BigDaddy]

Just thought I'd resurrect this thread with an update and personal experience.

I have a 33 gallon tank with an Eheim 2211 canister filter as the only means of filtration on the tank.

The other day, my wife inadvertently flicked a power switch off which I know now connects to the power bar that aquarium is on.

Came home after your typical 8 hour work day (so about 10 hours from the time we all left until I got home). No filtration at all. But the Eheim Autofeeder had dished out the 4 helpings of Color Bits the juvies get while I'm off at work.

So.. a tank with no filtration, and food/waste from 4 healthy sized portions of color bits during the day.

I did NOT rinse my media, or do anything special to the tank. I simply flicked the switch back on and ducktaped it so no one would turn it off again.

Now... according to many people on this board, all the beneficial bacteria in my tiny little canister (the 2211 MIGHT hold a liter of water) should have completely died off... and I have flooded the tank with "crap" that will harm my fish. I didn't even do a water change that night cause I was just too tired.

I've been doing ammonia and nitrite tests for a solid week. Zero ammonia, zero nitrite. My snakeskins have shown absolutely no signs of stress or disease.

So.. my real world experience shows that beneficial bacteria will NOT die off in "minutes or hours" as some have expressed on this board. I went almost completely a half a day, and my biological filter was unaffected. And its not like this was some lightly stocked tank. 7 two inch snakeskins and 4 full feedings. Don't try to say that's not a heavy bioload for a 33 gallon tank.

So... for those of you considering selling your canister... think about my experience. Think about why canisters are great, they are excellent biological filters and they don't move tons of water (perfect for our bare bottom grow out tanks). And if you have power problems, no maybe you'll reconsider getting rid of a sizable investment.

[Dood Lee]

The biggest advantage that canister filters have is their media capacity and biological filtration capacity. No other type of filter - other than a wet/dry system - can match it. With regards to the bacteria die off, I have read elsewhere that it will take a couple of days after a power outage for the bacteria to die and create anaerobic conditions within the canister.

[Dood Lee]

Hello,

I have a 1050 VA/705 watt UPS (uninterruptible power supply).

My two canisters (25 watts each), and a 2 watt air pump are attached to my UPS. In the picture you will see three canisters. The two canisters are mainly for biological filtration..and the other one is mainly for mechanical filtration. Only the two biological filters...are attached to the UPS.

I am also concerned about any black-outs that might occur while I go to work.

With my set-up, the UPS will be able to run the two canisters and the air pump for about 4 hours. This will prevent any deaths of the beneficial bacteria.....during black outs. Hopefully, the black out will not last long..and I'll be home by then...to manually pump air/02 into my system.....

WOW. That is an awesome setup of eheims. Makes my single 2026 look inadequate... :o

[jules]

I agree with BigDaddy - the canisters are excellent when properly maintained.

When I got my oceanic it came with a fluval 404 and all media included- it weathered a trip in the middle of February Canadian winter, and was fully cycled after not running for numerous hours. I even filled the tank with ice cold tap water. Only beef I have is restarting it after cleaning.

I use a smaller fluval and ac on my 55 d tank and am very happy with it. I don't use a prefilter but I clean it every week as this one starts up very easily.

Julie