New additions still not eating

[markwill]

My group of three new discus (taking the number to seven) are nto eating well. Based on postings to these forums I have not been too worried about this - new fish seem to take their time from what I have read. However, we're now into the 5th day. Of the three...

One (a 5" Royal Blue) has not touched a thing as far as I can tell. He seems perfectly healthy in all other regards, coming out into the open more and more and swimming around the tank. He has had one or two "panic attacks" when people approach the tank, rushing like crazy for a couple of seconds, but aside from that he seems "OK". But not a bite yet...

Another is a 5" San Marah. He's behaving like the Royal Blue but has started to eat a little bloodworm. He hasn't taken any Tetrabits or flakes. So, he's getting very little but is at least eating something. The first batch of fish I bought go crazy for the bloodworm and they gobble it up before this one has had more than 3 or 4 nibbles. So, he's not eating much.

The final one is a 2 1/2" Red Scribbled. He's sulking a little in a corner and is getting picked on by a Blue Diamond (that goes after most of the others too, since I got the three new fish). The Red Scribbled has had SOME little pecks of bloodworm but, again, he's had virtually nothing.

All the water parameters seem fine and my original 4 fish seem both healthy and very active at feeding time. Six of the seven (the Red Scribbled being the exception) are beginning to move around together, although the Blue Diamond wants to cause trouble :-)

Anyway, any pointers as to when I should be gettinc concerned?

Thanks.

Mark

[Dillan]

It's almost a week since I just added a small Red Turq to my little group (6 fish now) and it is only today coming out and gobbling food with the most voracious of them. So I wouldn't panic. There's only so much you can do anyway, in my limited experience... I have one fish that is wasting away to nothing -- nothing wrong with it except that it's at the bottom of the tank's hierarchy and it seems that it's just decided to bow out gracefully. I find that kinda fascinating, but I still hate to be losing this pretty little fish! It's brother is gonna be upset when it finally fades away. :(

Anyone else have any experience with this kind of anorexic wasting?!

[markwill]

It's almost a week since I just added a small Red Turq to my little group (6 fish now) and it is only today coming out and gobbling food with the most voracious of them. So I wouldn't panic. There's only so much you can do anyway, in my limited experience... I have one fish that is wasting away to nothing -- nothing wrong with it except that it's at the bottom of the tank's hierarchy and it seems that it's just decided to bow out gracefully. I find that kinda fascinating, but I still hate to be losing this pretty little fish! It's brother is gonna be upset when it finally fades away. :(

Anyone else have any experience with this kind of anorexic wasting?!
Thanks for the feedback. Your situation with the Red Turq offers me hope. In fact, I suspect I don't have reason to be concerned yet but would like a better sense of when I should really start getting concerned.

The "graceful bowing out" thing would be a real bummer! I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts as to ways to deal with this, if it gets to the stage where that looks likely.

Mark

[john2gs]

Thanks for the feedback. Your situation with the Red Turq offers me hope. In fact, I suspect I don't have reason to be concerned yet but would like a better sense of when I should really start getting concerned.

The "graceful bowing out" thing would be a real bummer! I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts as to ways to deal with this, if it gets to the stage where that looks likely.

Mark

bro try to ask the store/seller what food he feeds the discus. Maybe they are accustomed w/ another kind of food..thats why they are not eating the frozen bloodworms.

My 5 new discus (around 2.5") arrived yesterday. When I threw a cube of frozen bloodworms, only the old discus ate...and not the new batch. But today, the new 5 discus started to eat...but not too much tho. But it made me happy, seeing them trying to get some blood worms.

Hopefully by tomorrow...they will eat more

Good luck to you and your discus!

[funkyfish]

what's ur temp at??
if it's 85-86 crank it up to 88 the heat will make them hungry
add non iodized salt at 2 TBL spoons per gal that will help ease stress
and help the gill function dimming the tank lights will help to
good luck

PS don't worry to much when i first got discus i had one that went
a month without eatting ended up being stunted but it lived
i'm sure other's with more experince will reply and give some good advice

[Cosmo]

I used to experience the "wasting away disease" a couple years ago. Not sure what causes it but could be a couple of contributing factors..

Back then, I was adding new fish of varying sizes to my tank, and since I was buying them all from one supplier who I trusted, I was very lax on my quarantine habits.. very lax. Wasn't until years later when he closed up shop that I learned he had had consistent disease issues in his tanks.. so, could be your little guy is sick with something brought into the tank.

Then again, you've most likely set off a new round of "king of the hill" as they try to protect their turf, or, establish a new pecking order. So, it could be a stress related illness resulting from being picked on all the time...

You might pull him from the tank and put him in a hospital tank with the water at about 93 and treat him with Metro.. especially if you've observed any white turds coming out of him.

Also, could be one or more of your fish has worms.. have you tried de-worming? Since tapeworms are not uncommon in Discus, might not be a bad idea to treat the entire tank with Prazi.. it's a very gentle med but if they have worms, you'll see a bunch of them in the tank about 24 hours later..

I personally was never successful in pulling a fish out of the wasting away syndrome despite trying numerous meds, but I believe others have been. Others consider these fish culls that nature would have killed off in the wild and pull them from the tank and put them out of their misery by bagging them and putting them in the freezer.

My thought has always been though that its' better to treat and hope for the best...

Also, best to buy groups of six or greater with the fish at the same approx age and let them settle in inside a quarantine tank. You should ALWAYS quarantine for six to eight weeks before adding new fish to your main tanks.

Since I've changed to doing things this way, I haven't experienced the wasting away disease since.

hth

Jim

[markwill]

bro try to ask the store/seller what food he feeds the discus. Maybe they are accustomed w/ another kind of food..thats why they are not eating the frozen bloodworms.

My 5 new discus (around 2.5") arrived yesterday. When I threw a cube of frozen bloodworms, only the old discus ate...and not the new batch. But today, the new 5 discus started to eat...but not too much tho. But it made me happy, seeing them trying to get some blood worms.

Hopefully by tomorrow...they will eat more

Good luck to you and your discus!
Thanks for the response, John. My breeder suggested a combination of flakes and bloodworm (Hikari). Since the first batch was purchased from the same source and have been loving this combination I am hopefully my new arrivals will come around.

Last night I saw some progress - the San Marah (I hope I am spelling that correctly!) is now beginning to get her fair share. She's a really beautiful fish and I am very eager to see her participate. So, that's a step in the right direction.

The other two remain problematic. I tried some Hikari brine shrimp for the first time yesterday - again the other 5 (including the San Marah) gobbled it up but the Royal Blue, in particularly, just watched as those around him had a feeding frenzy but didn't himself take a bite.

A little more concerning is the "skittishness" of these fish, especially the Royal Blue. Having had them in the tank for almost a week they are still VERY sensitive to people walking by the tank. Most times they just sink away behind a plant, which is fine for now. But a few times the Royal Blue in particular has had a complete fit - shooting at astonishing speed around the tank, jumping out (probably hitting the glass) and doing himself some damage (a small gash about the eyes and to the side). Not a nice sight. For the record, I have only seen this when I have approached - so I am hopeful that this isn't any sign of disease. But his willingnhess to go crazy is worrying. The other fish are also sensitive, including the original four, but not to the extent they hurt themselves.

Anyway, all part of the learning process, I guess. Thanks for the excellent feedback and suggestions.

Mark

[Howie_W]

Mark,

To a certain extent, some fish can always be skittish in terms of being senitive to movement, and especially sound (reverberations caused by coming in contact with the tank).

As new fish adapt to a new home, the more interaction they have with you (i.e. your daily routine moving around the inside of the tank) the more they will get used to movement. The same is true for movement outside a tank as well.

If you have many people in your home, especially kids, etc., it helps to let everyone know they should move slowly around the tank...running, jumping near a tank is a good way to frighten fish and cause serious injuries.

Regarding lack of appetite;

What is your tank temperature? How much water do you change each day? How much are you feeding each day? What are you using for filtration, and how are you maintaining it?

Prolonged lack of appetite is a clear sign of internal parasites, and is best treated in a hospital tank.


Howie

[markwill]

Mark,

...

If you have many people in your home, especially kids, etc., it helps to let everyone know they should move slowly around the tank...running, jumping near a tank is a good way to frighten fish and cause serious injuries.

Regarding lack of appetite;

What is your tank temperature? How much water do you change each day? How much are you feeding each day? What are you using for filtration, and how are you maintaining it?

Prolonged lack of appetite is a clear sign of internal parasites, and is best treated in a hospital tank.
Howie
Thanks again, Howie! Yes, we have kids who jump around a lot. They like our discus a good deal but kids will be kids and they do sometimes forget. On the other hand, I would put them above the needs of my discus so I need to keep this in perspective :-)

The temperature is 85 degrees, I do changes at least once during the week (mid week) and twice at weekends - purely a function of work/life balance :-) I was doing 25% changes but have moved to around 40% each time now. I am feeding flakes 4 times a day (6:30am, midday, 6pm and 9pm) and also "ad-hoc" treats generally in the evening (bloodworm, granules or brine shrimp). I have two filters - currently - an Aquaclear 110 and a Fluval 404. I plan to remove the latter when I feel the Aquaclear is well cycled (currently been in for a couple of weeks).

I hope it's not the parasite thing - I don't have that hospital tank yet :-( (see the quarentine thread I opened). I guess this depends on what "prolonged" means.

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Big fish take longer to acclimate to new surrounding tha juveniles - may take a couple of weeks for adults to settle in and start eating. Extra water changes helps appetite.

Prazi will not hurt the biofilter and you can add to the regular tank.

[john2gs]

Thanks for the response, John. My breeder suggested a combination of flakes and bloodworm (Hikari). Since the first batch was purchased from the same source and have been loving this combination I am hopefully my new arrivals will come around.

Last night I saw some progress - the San Marah (I hope I am spelling that correctly!) is now beginning to get her fair share. She's a really beautiful fish and I am very eager to see her participate. So, that's a step in the right direction.

The other two remain problematic. I tried some Hikari brine shrimp for the first time yesterday - again the other 5 (including the San Marah) gobbled it up but the Royal Blue, in particularly, just watched as those around him had a feeding frenzy but didn't himself take a bite.

A little more concerning is the "skittishness" of these fish, especially the Royal Blue. Having had them in the tank for almost a week they are still VERY sensitive to people walking by the tank. Most times they just sink away behind a plant, which is fine for now. But a few times the Royal Blue in particular has had a complete fit - shooting at astonishing speed around the tank, jumping out (probably hitting the glass) and doing himself some damage (a small gash about the eyes and to the side). Not a nice sight. For the record, I have only seen this when I have approached - so I am hopeful that this isn't any sign of disease. But his willingnhess to go crazy is worrying. The other fish are also sensitive, including the original four, but not to the extent they hurt themselves.

Anyway, all part of the learning process, I guess. Thanks for the excellent feedback and suggestions.

Mark

Hey Mark, sooner or later that discus will no longer be skittish. My tank is in my bedroom, where I use my computer, and also sleep. I guess, due to me being there so much, they got used to me faster...compared to your set-up.
Plus, sometimes, I just go near the tank for 30 mins....sitting in front of them..watching them...so they'll know me more :)

And yes.....both Carol and Howie are right...follow their advises! :)

In addition, every fish have their own personality too...which will dictate their interaction with you. If they are born to be really skittish..then you can't do anything about it. But I know...you're discus will soon be relaxed and be comforatable with you :)


By the way, why are you planning to remove your fluval canister? if you already have the aquaclear and fluval, you might as well....keep it that way. I really dont believe in overfiltration....

I rather have overfiltration..than underfiltration .....

[markwill]

Hey Mark, sooner or later that discus will no longer be skittish. My tank is in my bedroom, where I use my computer, and also sleep. I guess, due to me being there so much, they got used to me faster...compared to your set-up.
Plus, sometimes, I just go near the tank for 30 mins....sitting in front of them..watching them...so they'll know me more :)

And yes.....both Carol and Howie are right...follow their advises! :)

In addition, every fish have their own personality too...which will dictate their interaction with you. If they are born to be really skittish..then you can't do anything about it. But I know...you're discus will soon be relaxed and be comforatable with you :)


By the way, why are you planning to remove your fluval canister? if you already have the aquaclear and fluval, you might as well....keep it that way. I really dont believe in overfiltration....

I rather have overfiltration..than underfiltration .....
Hi John,

Thanks for the comments. My major concern about my skittish friend (at least short term) is not so much that he is so - but that he'll REALLY hurt himself. In a way, it's quite surprising that he hasn't done so already. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would not have believed a fish could move to quickly!!! And there is a very distinct "thud" when he hits the tank wall or jumps out. Almost as painful for me to hear as it is for him! So, being a little skittish is one thing - but I hope at some stage it's just a skittish fish rather than a potentially suicidal one :-)

I do the 30 minute thing too quite regularly. Perhaps they just don't like my face yet :-)

I have been back and forth on the filtration thing. On the one hand I am happy to have "too much" filtration (on the assumption there is no such thing!). But - and here's the rub - I've kinda got scared about the potential for canisters to recover from a power failure and pump bad stuff into the tank. If I am around at the time there isn't a problem - I can just unplug the Fluval and "start again" - presumably with new media - when it recovers. But the thought of the planets aligning badly and having a 6+ hour power cut when I am not at home is concerning to me. It seems like a time bomb - and one that I am unable to control OR detect (aside, perhaps, from a the tell-tell flashing clocks when I return home).

So, with all that in mind, I am considering the "safer" alternative of an Aquaclear which, by all accounts, seems to be less dangerous after a powercut because its open to the air.

At this point, I don't know what to do :-(

Mark

[john2gs]

Hi John,

Thanks for the comments. My major concern about my skittish friend (at least short term) is not so much that he is so - but that he'll REALLY hurt himself. In a way, it's quite surprising that he hasn't done so already. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would not have believed a fish could move to quickly!!! And there is a very distinct "thud" when he hits the tank wall or jumps out. Almost as painful for me to hear as it is for him! So, being a little skittish is one thing - but I hope at some stage it's just a skittish fish rather than a potentially suicidal one :-)

I do the 30 minute thing too quite regularly. Perhaps they just don't like my face yet :-)

I have been back and forth on the filtration thing. On the one hand I am happy to have "too much" filtration (on the assumption there is no such thing!). But - and here's the rub - I've kinda got scared about the potential for canisters to recover from a power failure and pump bad stuff into the tank. If I am around at the time there isn't a problem - I can just unplug the Fluval and "start again" - presumably with new media - when it recovers. But the thought of the planets aligning badly and having a 6+ hour power cut when I am not at home is concerning to me. It seems like a time bomb - and one that I am unable to control OR detect (aside, perhaps, from a the tell-tell flashing clocks when I return home).

So, with all that in mind, I am considering the "safer" alternative of an Aquaclear which, by all accounts, seems to be less dangerous after a powercut because its open to the air.

At this point, I don't know what to do :-(

Mark

about those big Thuds....when your fish jumps.......Im so used to them...hehehe! Since I deal with aros...who are known being jumpers. hehehe! dont worry....that fish will subside sooner or later :)

Use a UPS. You can plug in the canister and an air pump to the UPS(the bigger wattage UPS).....which will last more than 3 hours, just in case there is a power failure.

thats what i did :)

[Dave C]

My 5 new discus (around 2.5") arrived yesterday. When I threw a cube of frozen bloodworms, only the old discus ate...and not the new batch. But today, the new 5 discus started to eat...but not too much tho. But it made me happy, seeing them trying to get some blood worms.

I assume you don't quarantine new arrivals. That's ok, your fish, your decision. But given that this section is Discus Basics for Beginners, I suggest that everyone isolate new arrivals for at least a couple of weeks, no matter where they came from. You're just asking for trouble otherwise and it's a guarantee that some day you will get burned big time.

[john2gs]

I assume you don't quarantine new arrivals. That's ok, your fish, your decision. But given that this section is Discus Basics for Beginners, I suggest that everyone isolate new arrivals for at least a couple of weeks, no matter where they came from. You're just asking for trouble otherwise and it's a guarantee that some day you will get burned big time.


hello bro...its you again! hahahaha!

how are you? I hope you are doing well! :)

I am a beginner......with discus definitely......in which I am entitled to commit alot of mistakes ;) I cant be perfect.....and even if I want to prevent any mistakes...they will still happen, unfortunately. I will just have to learn from my own personal mistakes.

FYI: all of my discus came from the same seller...........and only came to my house 2 days apart ....and I REALLY DONT THINK I NEED TO QUARANTINE THEM ;)

plus of course.....if i need to quarantine them....I will be needing 10 tanks (one for each different breed of discus I have...which I know came from 10 different tanks of the seller)...which is impossible on my part...hahaha!

if i commit a mistake...then its my fault...

[markwill]

Use a UPS. You can plug in the canister and an air pump to the UPS(the bigger wattage UPS).....which will last more than 3 hours, just in case there is a power failure.

thats what i did :)
Therein lies the problem - we regularly (2-3 times a year) get power cuts that last way longer than 3 hours (one lasted two+ days and I'll still trying to finalize my contigency plan for that type of event, especially when I am out of the country for 3 weeks this winter!!!).

Again, the specific scenario I am trying to address is the "somewhat extended" (6 hour) power cut that outlasts a UPS (without spending many hundreds on a really big UPS) where power comes back before I get the chance to remove the Fluval.

As I have understood things I simply don't have the "pollute on recovery of power" concerns with an Aquaclear that I have with a Fluval. So, I am considering eventually having two Aquaclears (they seem pretty simply) or some sponges.

Mark

[Dave C]

Like I said, your fish, your decision. Your new Discus weren't shipped I assume. Shipping can introduce stress that makes quarantine advisable even if they came from the same breeder. And the fact that they came from different tanks at the breeders isn't relevant since many breeders are mixing water between tanks by putting their hands in the tanks, using the same net etc. So the fish all carry the same bugs, if any. But your arowana & rays are the fish that are at risk, not just the Discus. But it's your decision.

[john2gs]

Like I said, your fish, your decision. Your new Discus weren't shipped I assume. Shipping can introduce stress that makes quarantine advisable even if they came from the same breeder. And the fact that they came from different tanks at the breeders isn't relevant since many breeders are mixing water between tanks by putting their hands in the tanks, using the same net etc. So the fish all carry the same bugs, if any. But your arowana & rays are the fish that are at risk, not just the Discus. But it's your decision.

Definitely, quarantine is the way to go. I dont disagree.

anyways, some breeders, use different nets, gloves, and other water gadgets w/ each different tank to avoid spreading diseases ....just wanted to let you know ;)

Like what I said.....it really depends on a hobbyist's situation. If he has no more spare tanks available....or no more space in his bedroom (where my tanks are) or apartment available.....then its his call......

I will update you .....about the outcomes though.....and will even send you a private message ;)

[john2gs]

Therein lies the problem - we regularly (2-3 times a year) get power cuts that last way longer than 3 hours (one lasted two+ days and I'll still trying to finalize my contigency plan for that type of event, especially when I am out of the country for 3 weeks this winter!!!).

Again, the specific scenario I am trying to address is the "somewhat extended" (6 hour) power cut that outlasts a UPS (without spending many hundreds on a really big UPS) where power comes back before I get the chance to remove the Fluval.

As I have understood things I simply don't have the "pollute on recovery of power" concerns with an Aquaclear that I have with a Fluval. So, I am considering eventually having two Aquaclears (they seem pretty simply) or some sponges.

Mark

Well, thats your call bro :)

I know most discus breeders really prefer Aquaclears, emperors, or other Hang on back filters........and I guess what you mentioned is one major reason why they prefer this kind of filter.

I dunno....I guess.........I have been raised w/ arowanas.....and canisters and wet/dry filters...thats why I am so into them. Plus of course, the bio-media that can be contained in these 2 kinds of filters......are more compared to HOBs. I like it that way.... :)

In addition, I dont like the HOBs...since the intakes scrape the back of my arowana (which is a surface dweller). Unlike the intakes of canisters, you can position them...anywhere in your tank. Plus of course, the splashes of water they create. My tank is in my room...and i cant sleep w/ those noises......unlike the super quiet eheim canisters. You dont even know that they are running.

Again.......each hobbyist have their own preference...and what is good for their tank set-up....plus of course, there is no pefect filter anyways :)

Each filter..has their pros and cons......you'll just have to chose what suits you best :)

Well...good luck on your discus.......pls update us! :)

[Howie_W]

Thanks again, Howie! Yes, we have kids who jump around a lot. They like our discus a good deal but kids will be kids and they do sometimes forget. On the other hand, I would put them above the needs of my discus so I need to keep this in perspective :-)

The temperature is 85 degrees, I do changes at least once during the week (mid week) and twice at weekends - purely a function of work/life balance :-) I was doing 25% changes but have moved to around 40% each time now. I am feeding flakes 4 times a day (6:30am, midday, 6pm and 9pm) and also "ad-hoc" treats generally in the evening (bloodworm, granules or brine shrimp). I have two filters - currently - an Aquaclear 110 and a Fluval 404. I plan to remove the latter when I feel the Aquaclear is well cycled (currently been in for a couple of weeks).



Thanks.

Mark

Hi Mark,

A couple things that might help;

Four rounds of primarily flake food each day can easily add to excessive fouling of your water. There's nothing wrong with a quality flake food, however, of all the foods I feed, flake food can sometimes cause the biggest mess as many tiny pieces missed by the fish fall to the bottom of the tank, get caught in tiny crevices, and also easily become trapped in filters where it begins to rot.

Easy ways around this are with scavenger fish that are adept and finishing off the remains. Nothing however is a replacement for daily maintenance. If you are running an aquaclear, it should have a prefilter on it which gets a quick rinse at the end of each day.

As for feeding in general, a balanced/varied diet is also helpful. Some meaty foods can take longer to digest than others. For this reason I usually feed foods such as bloodworm, and beef heart in the first part of the day. Last feeding of the day should take place long before the lights go out for the night, giving the fish time to process some of it.

First and foremost is daily maintenance...this is an essential part of Discus keeping. We all have busy schedules, but you need to allow for a little time each day. On the days that you don't have time for a regular water change, at least make sure the tank has been cleaned...this means removing fish waste, cleaning prefilters, and making sure there is no bacteria build-up of any kind on glass surfaces and equipment.


Howie

[markwill]

I think I may have a potential culprit - and a big one at that. I was looking into some of the potential causes last night and took readings for my water (first time since the end of last week - first slap on the wrist!!). Turns out I have a major problem - I assume - with nitrites. Specifically, I am at LEAST at 4ppm and probably higher (I have mild color blindness and have real trouble with these test kits!!!). I assume that could be a key factor, yes? My ammonia is fine (I use Prime and the little Seachem thingy that reports "locked Ammonia" indicates all is well) and nitrates are zero.

What is concerning here is that I have these readings even though I happened to have done 40% or so water changes on Saturday, Sunday and - after I discovered this - last night. I tested my aged water just to make sure nothing was coming in bad and got a reading of zero nitrites. The fact that three reasonably substantial water changes (I have 33 gallons in my aged water container, against the 72 gallons for the tank itself) hasn't "diluted" the high nitrites suggests I might REALLY have a problem.

I was under the impression that my tank had cycled some time back (saw the spike and then the decrease). I have two filters (the Fluval and the Aquaclear) on the tank, the latter having been added two weeks ago.

I assume this an urgent issue - are water changes the primary way for me to address this? Is it not surprising that only perhaps two fish have shown any signs of distress (lack of eating)? The others are like kids in a candy store at feeding time. Should I be worried about them very suddenly taking a turn for the worse?

Last night I have reduced the flakes I am feeding via an Eheim feeder. They SEEM to gobble up all that I give them (four times a day) but I'm playing safe and reducing the amount by about 1/2 for now. Howie's comments about flakes were also a factor here (thanks Howie!!).

Any other suggestions very welcome. Hey - all part of the learning process, right? :-)

Thanks.

Mark

[Jeckel]

I had a nitrite problem a few months ago (although less than 4 ppm). Some suggestions: there is a nitrite-removing resin called Nitra Zorb that will take the nitrites out until the biofilter catches up. The Nitra Zorb can go into a power filter and you can recharge the Nitra Zorb by soaking it in salt water.

Amquel Plus is supposed to remove nitrites but I saw no effect when I used it. I e-mailed the Amquel people and they said my test kit must be to blame. I rather doubt that, but I don't know why the Amquel didn't work.

Putting salt in the water is said to reduce the toxicity of nitrites.

Finally, there is a product called Bio Spera that will jump-start your biofilter. It comes in a refrigerated pouch and apparently contains real live "good" bacteria (most products sold for this purpose don't do much). Depending on where you live, you LFS may be able to provide Bio Spera for you. It's expensive but it seemed to work for me when I had my nitrite problem.

[john2gs]

I had a nitrite problem a few months ago (although less than 4 ppm). Some suggestions: there is a nitrite-removing resin called Nitra Zorb that will take the nitrites out until the biofilter catches up. The Nitra Zorb can go into a power filter and you can recharge the Nitra Zorb by soaking it in salt water.

Amquel Plus is supposed to remove nitrites but I saw no effect when I used it. I e-mailed the Amquel people and they said my test kit must be to blame. I rather doubt that, but I don't know why the Amquel didn't work.

Putting salt in the water is said to reduce the toxicity of nitrites.

Finally, there is a product called Bio Spera that will jump-start your biofilter. It comes in a refrigerated pouch and apparently contains real live "good" bacteria (most products sold for this purpose don't do much). Depending on where you live, you LFS may be able to provide Bio Spera for you. It's expensive but it seemed to work for me when I had my nitrite problem.

HI bro......I both use Kordon's Amquel Plus, and Novaqua Plus.....and both of them do what they state. I have no problems so far...

ohhh...it is MARINELAND'S Bio-spira. Yup.....they are refrigerated, and should always be refrigerated before you dump them into your tank. They are indeed expensive....but they are worth it. In addition, your UVC should be turned off, when you add bio-spira.

[john2gs]

I think I may have a potential culprit - and a big one at that. I was looking into some of the potential causes last night and took readings for my water (first time since the end of last week - first slap on the wrist!!). Turns out I have a major problem - I assume - with nitrites. Specifically, I am at LEAST at 4ppm and probably higher (I have mild color blindness and have real trouble with these test kits!!!). I assume that could be a key factor, yes? My ammonia is fine (I use Prime and the little Seachem thingy that reports "locked Ammonia" indicates all is well) and nitrates are zero.

What is concerning here is that I have these readings even though I happened to have done 40% or so water changes on Saturday, Sunday and - after I discovered this - last night. I tested my aged water just to make sure nothing was coming in bad and got a reading of zero nitrites. The fact that three reasonably substantial water changes (I have 33 gallons in my aged water container, against the 72 gallons for the tank itself) hasn't "diluted" the high nitrites suggests I might REALLY have a problem.

I was under the impression that my tank had cycled some time back (saw the spike and then the decrease). I have two filters (the Fluval and the Aquaclear) on the tank, the latter having been added two weeks ago.

I assume this an urgent issue - are water changes the primary way for me to address this? Is it not surprising that only perhaps two fish have shown any signs of distress (lack of eating)? The others are like kids in a candy store at feeding time. Should I be worried about them very suddenly taking a turn for the worse?

Last night I have reduced the flakes I am feeding via an Eheim feeder. They SEEM to gobble up all that I give them (four times a day) but I'm playing safe and reducing the amount by about 1/2 for now. Howie's comments about flakes were also a factor here (thanks Howie!!).

Any other suggestions very welcome. Hey - all part of the learning process, right? :-)

Thanks.

Mark


bro.....when you age your water.....do you add water conditioners to remove chlorine and chloramine? If you only rely on air-stones and not water conditioners......they will only remove chlorine AND NOT chloramine. Thats why I sugges you use water conditioners that will eliminate both chlorine and chloramine when you age your water....


Both chlorine and chloramine will wipe out all the beneficial bacterias in your bio-media...which eliminates both ammonia and nitrite.

if your age water still has chloramine....chances are you are killing the beneficial bacterias in your filters...everytime you do a water change.

this might explain...why you have nitrite problems......since your tank...is not fully cycled (due to the chloramine killing your BBs).

just my 2 cents...

[markwill]

bro.....when you age your water.....do you add water conditioners to remove chlorine and chloramine? If you only rely on air-stones and not water conditioners......they will only remove chlorine AND NOT chloramine. Thats why I sugges you use water conditioners that will eliminate both chlorine and chloramine when you age your water....
Hi John,

I have been religiously adding Prime for all water changes since I first got my tank, added to my aged water when I fill the container. I assume this is the type of conditioning you mean. Here's the blurb from the Seachem web site on Prime:

"Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water."

A lot of people on these forums seem to use Prime so hopefully I'm good in this department.

Mark

[markwill]

Finally, there is a product called Bio Spera that will jump-start your biofilter. It comes in a refrigerated pouch and apparently contains real live "good" bacteria (most products sold for this purpose don't do much). Depending on where you live, you LFS may be able to provide Bio Spera for you. It's expensive but it seemed to work for me when I had my nitrite problem.
Thanks - is Cycle one of those products that "dont' do much"? I used that initially when I set up the tank and - in my urgent situation - last night too. If it doesn't do much I am interested to know why people buy it (seems like it's in just about every pet store I have visited).

I'll check out the Bio Spera - thanks for the tip.

Mark

[john2gs]

Thanks - is Cycle one of those products that "dont' do much"? I used that initially when I set up the tank and - in my urgent situation - last night too. If it doesn't do much I am interested to know why people buy it (seems like it's in just about every pet store I have visited).

I'll check out the Bio Spera - thanks for the tip.

Mark

I never like CYCLE....its a waste of money...


I like bio-spira...

[john2gs]

Hi John,

I have been religiously adding Prime for all water changes since I first got my tank, added to my aged water when I fill the container. I assume this is the type of conditioning you mean. Here's the blurb from the Seachem web site on Prime:

"Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water."

A lot of people on these forums seem to use Prime so hopefully I'm good in this department.

Mark

yeah....thats a kind of water conditioner Im talking about.

Prime is good..and very reliable!

I use, Kordon's amquel plus, and kordon's novaqua plus...which also does what Seachem Prime does :)

[markwill]

yeah....thats a kind of water conditioner Im talking about.

Prime is good..and very reliable!

I use, Kordon's amquel plus, and kordon's novaqua plus...which also does what Seachem Prime does :)
So, I gotta ask - why all three? Don't they all offer roughly the same? I was considering getting some Amquel Plus, based on your comments, but reading the blurbs on Petsmart it seems to do the same as Prime - which clearly hasn't worked for me quite yet.

Then again, I've been adding Prime in amounts relevant to the water in my water changes (33 gallons). Not sure if there is an overdosage risk with Prime but I'm wondering if I really need to be adding directly into the tank, at least until my nitrites are down.

Thoughts?

Mark

[john2gs]

So, I gotta ask - why all three? Don't they all offer roughly the same? I was considering getting some Amquel Plus, based on your comments, but reading the blurbs on Petsmart it seems to do the same as Prime - which clearly hasn't worked for me quite yet.

Then again, I've been adding Prime in amounts relevant to the water in my water changes (33 gallons). Not sure if there is an overdosage risk with Prime but I'm wondering if I really need to be adding directly into the tank, at least until my nitrites are down.

Thoughts?

Mark


bro...I dont use Prime.....


I only use Novaqua plus...and....Amquel Plus.

I pour both liquids...directly into the tank...and let it sit there...for 5 mins...before adding tap water. So far so good.....I have been doing it for more than 6 months...and a freshwater stingray and arowana.....is not affected at all. With discus.......i've been doing it for 2 weeks...and no problems too

I cant age water :(

[markwill]

So, I'm really not getting this. I have now done 4 x 40% water changes (with aged water that has zero nitrites) over four days. I have also treated with Prime (both the aged water and, today only, the full tank itself). And yet - after all this - my nitrites are STILL at 5 ppm. I assume my fish are in danger at this moment.

I will be buying some Amquel Plus next - but was hoping that the Prime would have helped.

With all these water changes I am not understanding why I see no drop at all in nitrites. My simplistic mind has this weird idea that if I have 72 gallons at, say, 5 ppm and I "dilute" with 40% with no nitrite reading - and do that four times in four days - that I'd see at least SOME reduction.

So, I'll keep trying. And hoping my discus outlast my investigations.

Thanks.

Mark

[john2gs]

So, I'm really not getting this. I have now done 4 x 40% water changes (with aged water that has zero nitrites) over four days. I have also treated with Prime (both the aged water and, today only, the full tank itself). And yet - after all this - my nitrites are STILL at 5 ppm. I assume my fish are in danger at this moment.

I will be buying some Amquel Plus next - but was hoping that the Prime would have helped.

With all these water changes I am not understanding why I see no drop at all in nitrites. My simplistic mind has this weird idea that if I have 72 gallons at, say, 5 ppm and I "dilute" with 40% with no nitrite reading - and do that four times in four days - that I'd see at least SOME reduction.

So, I'll keep trying. And hoping my discus outlast my investigations.

Thanks.

Mark


yeah...weird bro...

only logical explanation is....your tank is not fully cycled yet........or you are overfeeding.....or something...

hopefully, this will be resolved soon bro...

[markwill]

I'm wondering if the high nitrite readings I am getting with my test kit is something of a false alarm, in the same way that some ammonia test kits are thrown off by Prime. Here's a comment from the FAQ on the Seachem site for Prime:

"Q: How does Prime make a difference in reducing Nitrates?
A: The detoxification of nitrite and nitrate by Prime (when used at elevated levels) is not well understood from a mechanistic standpoint. The most likely explanation is that the nitrite and nitrate is removed in a manner similar to the way ammonia is removed; i.e. it is bound and held in a inert state until such time that bacteria in the biological filter are able to take a hold of it, break it apart and use it. Two other possible scenarios are reduction to nitrogen (N2) gas or conversion into a benign organic nitrogen compound.
I wish we had some more "concrete" explanation, but the end result is the same, it does actually detoxify nitrite and nitrate. This was unexpected chemically and thus initially we were not even aware of this, however we received numerous reports from customers stating that when they overdosed with Prime they were able to reduce or eliminate the high death rates they experienced when their nitrite and nitrate levels were high. We have received enough reports to date to ensure that this is no fluke and is in fact a verifiable function of the product."

Well, that offers me some hope and possible an explanation as to why my fish are not dying on me. Although the scientific basis seems weak, if this is the end result (an detoxifying of nitrites) than I would be happy. But I'd then be left unable to identify when I really DO have a problem.

Confused as ever :-)

Thanks.

Mark

[Jeckel]

Yes, I suppose products like Prime and AmQuel Plus chemically change or "lock up" nitrites so that they don't hurt the fish, but still register on a test kit. But as I said, when I contacted Novalek about AmQuel Plus, they didn't say that; they just said that aquarium test kits are cheap and often inaccurate. But if your tap water is reading 0 nitrites and your aquarium water is 5, there is clearly some chemical difference that the test kit is responding to.

I think most aquarists think Cycle is ineffective. Bio-Spira (sp?) was developed by a biologist who, as I recall, performed a DNA analysis to determine the strains of bacteria that operate in aquarium filters. He found that the strains are not what most aquarium books cite, and evidently found a way to culture and market the "right" strains. Of course, most of what I know comes from the vendor (Marineland), but I believe they have published some of this research in refereed journals. The Marineland website also includes testimonials from curators of large public aquariums.

You probably can't find Bio-Spira at your local Petsmart, but specialty aquarium stores often have it. It think it's about $20 for a 70-gallon aquarium dose. When I had my problem, my nitrites were, as I recall, 0.25 ppm and several of my discus had stopped eating. I got the nitrites down to barely detectable levels with the Nitra Zorb resin and then put Bio-Spira in the tank. The nitrites went to zero and never came back.

[john2gs]

Yes, I suppose products like Prime and AmQuel Plus chemically change or "lock up" nitrites so that they don't hurt the fish, but still register on a test kit. But as I said, when I contacted Novalek about AmQuel Plus, they didn't say that; they just said that aquarium test kits are cheap and often inaccurate. But if your tap water is reading 0 nitrites and your aquarium water is 5, there is clearly some chemical difference that the test kit is responding to.

I think most aquarists think Cycle is ineffective. Bio-Spira (sp?) was developed by a biologist who, as I recall, performed a DNA analysis to determine the strains of bacteria that operate in aquarium filters. He found that the strains are not what most aquarium books cite, and evidently found a way to culture and market the "right" strains. Of course, most of what I know comes from the vendor (Marineland), but I believe they have published some of this research in refereed journals. The Marineland website also includes testimonials from curators of large public aquariums.

You probably can't find Bio-Spira at your local Petsmart, but specialty aquarium stores often have it. It think it's about $20 for a 70-gallon aquarium dose. When I had my problem, my nitrites were, as I recall, 0.25 ppm and several of my discus had stopped eating. I got the nitrites down to barely detectable levels with the Nitra Zorb resin and then put Bio-Spira in the tank. The nitrites went to zero and never came back.


bros....about the test kits and amquel....

you need to understand that there are two kinds of test kits: salicylate test kit AND nessler test kit

Salycylate test kit....is the preferred test kid if you are using Kordon products such as amquel and novaqua.

Nessler test kit....will sometimes give you a false reading, if you are using kordon products

Hope this helps...

[markwill]

bros....about the test kits and amquel....

you need to understand that there are two kinds of test kits: salicylate test kit AND nessler test kit

Salycylate test kit....is the preferred test kid if you are using Kordon products such as amquel and novaqua.

Nessler test kit....will sometimes give you a false reading, if you are using kordon products

Hope this helps...
Yep - that's my train of thought now. The same applies to Prime with ammonia readings. My test kit gives readings that are off the charts - but this a documented characteristic of using Prime and I bought a little stick-on thingy from Seachem that reports "locked ammonia" (or unlocked - can't recall :-)). That is always showing a good reading for me.

There seems to be less awareness (on the Prime site or here) about the potential for bad nitrite readings when using Prime (it's just a given with the ammona readings but no-one that I have seen has explicitly mentioned this in terms of nitrites). So, that's my hope - my readings are just bad and I'll look at a Salycylate-based kit. That would, in turn, leave me worried about the somewhat reactive steps I have taken in the past couple of days to get these elusive nitrites down - and whether it's a wasted effort.

Now, all that said, my Prime-treated aged water never shows anything on the nitrite scale with my test kit.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Be sure to keep 1 or 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons of salt in the water and do daily water changes until your filters become fully cycled. (The newer filter should be cycled soon.) Look inside the canister and make sure it's not full of mulm or half eaten food.

[Eddie]

I know I'm a little late in the game but if you can get your hands on some Seachems STABILITY, it will work exactly as it says on the bottle. 7 Days and not a bit of Ammonia/Nitrites. It worked for both my tanks and I used only the Discus and Stability to cycle my tanks. All my water parameters are Zero unless I slack for a bit on my waterchanges. Then my nitrates get up. Just an option buddy.

Eddie

[markwill]

A quick update on the fish that caused this whole thread...

My Royal Blue continues to eat absolutely nothing. I've had him for 9 days now and I don't recall him eating a single thing. Surprisingly, at least for me, he looks perfectly healthy and swims around the tank majestically (he's the largest fish I have). I don't (yet) see any obvious signs of "thining". But, come feeding time, he'll just sit there as food meyhem occurs around him amongst the other fish.

To reiterate, I've tried a bunch of things, over a few days, to coerce him to eat - raised the temperature to 89 degrees, added salt, worked on my "apparent" nitrite problem (although with the other discus seeming to be doing fine now I am increasingly of the opinion that I am getting false readings - no matter what I have tried my test kit has remained at its highest reading of 5 ppm), daily 45% water changes, etc, etc.

And he just watches all around him gobble up the food.

I am REALLY hoping I have some other options here other than just watching him waste away. All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark

[Greg Richardson]

Mark. I had a new fish take 14 days before eating. It happens. Now eats fine.
I know it's hard to see it day after day but eventually he will eat.
Did you get him from Macs? If so you might call him and find out what he was feeding him. Then stick with that until he eats.

[markwill]

Mark. I had a new fish take 14 days before eating. It happens. Now eats fine.
I know it's hard to see it day after day but eventually he will eat.
Did you get him from Macs? If so you might call him and find out what he was feeding him. Then stick with that until he eats.Now THAT's encouraging to me!!! :-) Thank you. I was wondering just how long fish can go in this state and you example gives me a little more hope than I had (I thought I had a "waster" on my hands).

Yes, I bought from Mac's. There's a funny story there actually. Around January or so I was having vague "callings" to get back into discus keeping (I kept them when I was in my teens in the 70's and again in the early 90's, before moving to the States). I wanted to introduce my daughters to them. Anyway, I did a bunch of searches on the web just to read up on the "state of the art" - and then let it go again for a few months. Then I did a search for something completely unrelated to discus - and for some strange reason Macs Discus showed up as the first page in the the result set. I took a look and liked the pictures he has. But the REAL omen was when I checked where he was located - he is about 1.5 miles from me. Given that he could have been anywhere in the world, I took that as an omen :-)

Anyway, he told me that he feeds Hikari Frozen Bloodworm and, frankly, all the other fish I have bought there (I have only sourced them from Macs) love that. But not this one...

I can't wait to see that first little nibble...

Thanks.

Mark

[Howie_W]

Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear aboutyour fish...I know this can be frustrating. :(

Reading through your posts there's a couple different things going on.

1. Nitrate Readings. I've always used the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits and have never had a problem with them. With a reliable test kit in hand, test your water both before adding to the tank (after aging), as well as your tank reading.

Your filter is not yet fully cycled. As Carol mentioned, check your filters to make sure the insides are clean, and free of excess bacteria build-up, rotting food, etc.

Keep up on daily water changes. In an uncyled tank, heavy feeding will elevate your nitrate level-this is the equivalent of poisoning your fish. I would consider adding an additional sponge filter to help. This can also be used if you need to set-up a hospital tank.

2. Your Royal Blue; Healthy new arrivals should be eating. It's possible that he'll come around, as fish can go weeks without eating, and some do indeed come around. Your options are to give him a few more days or get him into a hospital tank and start medicating for internal parasites.

Fish are hungriest in the morning. You can also cut back on the amount of food you're feeding, and give foods (such as bloodworm) he is most likey to be interested in first.


Howie

[markwill]

Hi Mark,

Sorry to hear aboutyour fish...I know this can be frustrating. :(

Reading through your posts there's a couple different things going on.

1. Nitrate Readings. I've always used the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits and have never had a problem with them. With a reliable test kit in hand, test your water both before adding to the tank (after aging), as well as your tank reading.

Your filter is not yet fully cycled. As Carol mentioned, check your filters to make sure the insides are clean, and free of excess bacteria build-up, rotting food, etc.

Keep up on daily water changes. In an uncyled tank, heavy feeding will elevate your nitrate level-this is the equivalent of poisoning your fish. I would consider adding an additional sponge filter to help. This can also be used if you need to set-up a hospital tank.

2. Your Royal Blue; Healthy new arrivals should be eating. It's possible that he'll come around, as fish can go weeks without eating, and some do indeed come around. Your options are to give him a few more days or get him into a hospital tank and start medicating for internal parasites.

Fish are hungriest in the morning. You can also cut back on the amount of food you're feeding, and give foods (such as bloodworm) he is most likey to be interested in first.

Howie
Thank you, Howie - as ever. Some comments...

On the nitrites reading, the figure has stayed so high (max possible on my test kit), for so long (since Sunday) and across so many water changes (45% changes four times with aged water with zero nitrites) that I am now seriously doubting my test kit. I was under the impression that figures this high would have serious consequences for my fish (death?) but, if anything, they are more active and hungrier than ever (with on notable exception). In fact, I've been delighted to note that - for the first time - they are starting to move to the front as a group when someone walks by the tank, eager for food. My assumption is that all these good signs wouldn't be evident if I really DID have ongoing nitrites of 5 ppm (or more - again, that's the max my test kit reads). Would you agree? Or perhaps I have over-estimated the danger of nitrites (not to say they are not dangerous but there presence - even at these levels - may not be lethal). Your comments would imply that you believe my readings may well be accurate.

The hospital tank thing has crossed my mind. I made a decision to freeze my ongoing spending on fish this month (at least in terms of the big bucks :-)) - but now thing that an extra, bare tank would serve the purpose of a quarentine tank and, when needed, a hospital tank. So, maybe I have to "unfreeze" :-)

I did actually cut back on the feeding (reducing the number and size of the portions that my Eheim feeder dishes out and going a little easier on the ad-hoc treats). The reaction of the other fish seems to suggest they notice :-)

Thanks.

Mark

[Dillan]

When I had a big phosphate problem last spring, it took what seems like HUNDREDS of huge water changes to finally correct it. I also put a phosphate sponge in the filter, and added a Sera product that removed/neutralized the phosphate. (you put it in and you can literally watch the phosphate coagulate/clump and get picked up by the filters...). I know it seems like big water changes should dilute your problem but it really can take a long time to correct, IME. At its worst, my fish were lying on there sides on the bottom gasping for breath -- you can imagine how awful THAT was to look at, impatiently waiting for my phosphate attacks to have some effect! Anyway, it all worked out in the end and now that I'm a better housekeeper everything's been fine since. Now fish that refuse to eat... that's a bigger mystery to me! When you figure that out, lemme know! I have one fish that I thought was anorexic or suidical or something... but I noticed white poop on one of the other fish (that's been too shy and hiding too much lately) so I suspect intestinal parasites more than psychology at this point! Ordered some metra which will likely clear up any parasite problem I may have.... Hope that's it! If not, anyone know a good phish psychologist!? Dillan

[markwill]

I know I'm a little late in the game but if you can get your hands on some Seachems STABILITY, it will work exactly as it says on the bottle. 7 Days and not a bit of Ammonia/Nitrites. It worked for both my tanks and I used only the Discus and Stability to cycle my tanks. All my water parameters are Zero unless I slack for a bit on my waterchanges. Then my nitrates get up. Just an option buddy.

Eddie
Thanks Eddie. After almost a week of "panic" on my part (not sure if my tank is a time-bomb for my fish), I still don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I've tried all sorts of suggestions but still I see 5 ppm on my test kit. I got a really great response from Seachem this morning - pretty detailed - and they didn't suggest that I am getting false alarms from Prime. So - although it is at odds with my understanding that "nitrites are lethal" - I do appear to have a high nitrite reading, over a good number of days.

I am going to get some Seachem Stability this evening and see if that works. I must confess, I have generally wanted to work towards a minimal-chemicals tank and the last week had pretty much blown that out of the, er, water. But I can't just sit back and hope - so I'll give the Stability a shot.

Since I am writing, an update. My Royal Blue - hereafter referred to as Stripes, thanks to my kids! - still hasn't eaten a thing (day 11). The better news is that the first batch of four I bought have now graduated to coming to the front of the tank when I walk by and eating out of my fingers too. Very nice. But Stripes continues to worry me...

Thanks again.

Mark

[Jeckel]

Regarding the reliability of your nitrite test kit, I think you said your tap water tests out at zero. If you make a test solution of 50/50 tap and aquarium water, your test reading should go down by a factor of two. This might be an interesting thing to try if you haven't already. It is interesting that your results seem to be pegged at the highest reading. I would think a prolonged nitrite concentration of 5 ppm would be pretty lethal, so the fact that most of your fish seem happy is puzzling.

You might invest in another nitrite kit, preferably of a different type. Also, your kit might be past expiration date. I have an e-mail from the company that makes Amquel that says some test strips have a shelf life of 30 days after you open them. The manufacturers don't admit this unless you ask them directly. I don't know if I believe that, but that's what I was told. But you referred to a "kit" so I suppose you're not using test strips.

[markwill]

Regarding the reliability of your nitrite test kit, I think you said your tap water tests out at zero. If you make a test solution of 50/50 tap and aquarium water, your test reading should go down by a factor of two. This might be an interesting thing to try if you haven't already. It is interesting that your results seem to be pegged at the highest reading. I would think a prolonged nitrite concentration of 5 ppm would be pretty lethal, so the fact that most of your fish seem happy is puzzling.

You might invest in another nitrite kit, preferably of a different type. Also, your kit might be past expiration date. I have an e-mail from the company that makes Amquel that says some test strips have a shelf life of 30 days after you open them. The manufacturers don't admit this unless you ask them directly. I don't know if I believe that, but that's what I was told. But you referred to a "kit" so I suppose you're not using test strips.
Thanks - interesting. I'm going to apply some science tonight! Try with 50% tank water, 50% aged and measure. Then dilute that with 50% aged water and retest. And so on. If my test kit IS working I should get a better idea of the true reading.

At this stage I have no idea whether I should be paranoid for my fish with these nitrite readings!!!

Thanks.

Mark

[markwill]

Well, based on ratio's of 1 part tank water to x parts aged water (where I tried x with values of 1, 2, 4 and 6), I think my tank water was somewhere between 4 and 5 ppm this morning. I did a 45% water change this morning and another thi afternoon and I think I'm down to about 1 ppm now (the math doesn't add up exactly but that comes back to my color blindness - it's not an exact science for me :-)).

Anyway, I am at least on the right track, although I have no intention of doing 2 big water changes per day on an ongoing basis :-) So, I still wait for my bacteria to get their act together. I bought some Seachem Stability today and added it AFTER the second water change so it'll be interesting to see if this helps.

As for dear old Stripes, still not a nibble. I've pretty much tried everything now and I'm at the stage where some of the messages posted here about some fishing taking a couple of weeks or more are my only hope. Stripes is in the 12th day of his hunger strike. If anyone else has any ideas - preferably without the need for chemicals (I am feeling uneasy with the amount I have put in recently) - then please let me know.

One question that sprung to mind is is whether it's worth trying to tempt him with beef heart. I've offered TetraFlakes, TetraBits, Frozen Bloodworm and Frozen Brine Shrimp (he was fed flakes and frozen bloodworm by the dealer). Would I be wasting my time offering beef heart?

Thank.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

If he is not used to eating beefheart he will not eat it now - it will only foul your water faster. They do find live food tempting. Perhaps you have teeny earthworms in your garden?( free of pesticides and rinsed)

[markwill]

If he is not used to eating beefheart he will not eat it now - it will only foul your water faster. They do find live food tempting. Perhaps you have teeny earthworms in your garden?( free of pesticides and rinsed)
Interesting - I must admit the idea of trying live food is interesting but I am kinda concerned about the "cleaniness" of the various alternatives. I didn't realise that common earthworms (I assume you mean the really tiny ones) would be safe if rinsed. I may well give this a go (I have a 62 mile bike ride tomorrow morning so may not have any energy left to hunt down earthworms until Monday :-)).

Thanks again, Carol.

Mark

[Greg Richardson]

Mark, below is a good link on worms. Interesting reading there.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=31031

[markwill]

Thanks for Carol and Greg for the suggestions about worms. A good bunch of reading to do in the thread that Greg forwarded so thanks for the pointer Greg.

I did pass a small "wriggler" past Stripes' nose yesterday (after a humerously elaborate effort to distract my other discus at the other end of the tank). Stripes just watched the worm fall past his nose - he didn't pay any attention.

I can probably do something about getting a larger supply of worms (as per the thread from Greg) but, at this stage, I am beginning to think things are not looking good for Stripes and - given his lack of interest in the worm yesterday - I am not confident it would make a difference anyway.

I know others have indicated that some of their fish have taken up to 3 weeks or so to eat for the first time but it's really quite tough to see a single discus (which happens to be the largest and most "impactful" fish in the tank) not eat anything or show any interest.

BTW, nitrites are slowly coming down now (somewhere between 1ppm and 0.5 ppm according to my non-colour blind wife). Hopefully the combination of water changes and Seachem Stability (not sure how long that takes to kick in) have made a difference and my tank becomes more "self sufficient" soon - I really don't want to be making 5-6 45% water changes per week if I can avoid it.

Thanks.

Mark

[Eddie]

Mark,
I'de hold back on the waterchanges until the Nitrites come down on there own. The stability will work it's wonder. Trust me. I'd wait until your nitrates get up and do a waterchange. I didn't change any water in my tanks while I was using the stability. I just treated the tank for seven days and viola. After the 7 days I did a water change and added the maintenance dose of stability. I've recommended this stuff to others and it is always working as described on the bottle. Glad your tank is getting settled ;)

Eddie

[markwill]

OK - my next clue about the amazing foodless Stripes...

For the first time today I see something from his bum - it's a somewhat thick, white feces (or so it appears). The whiteness has me thinking of tapeworm - but I have no experience of this so don't know what that would look like.

He had a segment of this fall off - another fish darted in and tried to eat it. If kinda fell apart into small bits. That would SEEM to suggest that it's not a tapeworm - would you all agree? Another thick piece is still hanging from him. He's staying somewhat still in the same location - I almost feel his pain!!!

Anyway, I don't know if this is any form of clue. I bought from Mac's Discus. I am very happy with the discus I have bought there but I just noticed a post from earlier this year that said that a fish he had sold had tapeworm. Is this a relatively common scenario?

I don't THINK this is tapeworm (because when a piece fell off it kinda disintegrated) but I am open to ideas as to how I identify what's happening.

Thanks.

Mark

[markwill]

Stripes has taken an apparent turn for the worst. Since last evening he's been in one corner (he has previously moved around quite freely, despite his lack of food) and is darker than he normally is. I don't know what "headstanding" is technically but he does tend to tilt his head downward all the time, although not at too acute an angle.

Any late suggestions? Please see my previous post about the white feces and whether that is a clue.

Thanks.

Mark

[Dave C]

I'd move the fish to a hospital tank if possible. Hopefully you have a 20g or similar sized tank that you can do lots of w/c on. Bump the temp to 90ºF and do a treatment of metronidazole. If you don't have a spare tank then treat the whole tank with heat/metro. I had a fish in my first batch of Discus that would not eat and after two months I did the metro treatment. After two weeks of isolation it was eating well and I returned it to the tank of Discus. In about 6 months it had caught up and became a very large Discus.

[markwill]

I'd move the fish to a hospital tank if possible. Hopefully you have a 20g or similar sized tank that you can do lots of w/c on. Bump the temp to 90ºF and do a treatment of metronidazole. If you don't have a spare tank then treat the whole tank with heat/metro. I had a fish in my first batch of Discus that would not eat and after two months I did the metro treatment. After two weeks of isolation it was eating well and I returned it to the tank of Discus. In about 6 months it had caught up and became a very large Discus.
Thanks Dave. The large discus experience is very encouraging :-)

I don't have a hospital tank available right now. I do plan to fix this at some point but even if I went out and bought a bunch of stuff today (yet more cost :)
Aside from hitting perfectly healthy dish (apparently, at least) with unnecessary medication, is there any specific harm that I can do from treating the whole tank?
What exactly does metro do? Is it a "general treatment" or is there something in the thread here that makes you believe I should target some thing specifically (that metro can address)?
Metro is non-prescription, yes? I am just about to research but if you know how I can get hold of this that would be cool.
My heaters go to 89 degrees only (somewhat surprising since they are a "major brand" - can't recall the name off hand). I hope that's not a problem (I read that metro should be used in tanks at "mid to upper 90s" - yikes!!!).


Thank you again. I can't TELL you how helpful this thread has been.

Mark

[leeg]

I have had the same problem with one of mine discus a while back, except mine ate from the start then slowly did not eat after that. He showed the same symptoms like your "Stripes" and just slowly died a week after he initially went on a hunger strike. It is painfull to deal with but its part of being a aquarium hobbyist, fish deaths do perodically happen and you wish you could of done more. Mark I think you have done everything you can, the rest is upto him, if he continues to not eat he lacks the nutrients and antibodies to fight with whatever he has. I would hope for the best :heart1:

As for a quartine tank, I woiuld put the troubled fish in there as soon as you can, to stop the risk of having more problems with your other fish in the future.

Anyways thats my 2 cents and I wish you good luck with your fish.

[Greg Richardson]

Check your PM Mark.

[markwill]

I have had the same problem with one of mine discus a while back, except mine ate from the start then slowly did not eat after that. He showed the same symptoms like your "Stripes" and just slowly died a week after he initially went on a hunger strike. It is painfull to deal with but its part of being a aquarium hobbyist, fish deaths do perodically happen and you wish you could of done more. Mark I think you have done everything you can, the rest is upto him, if he continues to not eat he lacks the nutrients and antibodies to fight with whatever he has. I would hope for the best :heart1:

Thank you. I think it's probably a little easier to accept once a fish has met his maker but while he's still alive I feel I have to keep trying.

One thing that I haven't tried is any form of medication. The lack of a cycled hospital tank is problematic for me right now and I have concerned about unnecessary treatment of healthy fish. I also don't want to apply medications without having some sense that they are correctly targeted (associated with a symptom), rather than "just in case".

So, I am in between a rock and hard place. Although things are not looking good I have also seen enough recovery stories here to give me some hope.

It's all quite the soap opera but I'm learning like crazy. I haven't lost a fish yet and, until I do, I'm going to hold on to that proud record as best I can (albeit with an understanding, as you say, that it will happen at some point and it's just part of the deal). The fact that this is only happening to my most beautiful (and, dare I say, expensive) fish is unfortunate too. The good news is that the rest seem to be doing great.

Thanks.

Mark

[Dave C]

Metro is a prescription drug but many vets carry it as well as some LFS. There are tons of hobbyists that stock this med so maybe someone in your area has it. I recommend Metro because the fish is not eating and you say there are white feces. My guess is that the fish has internal worms, which metro is great at removing. It won't harm the other, healthy fish at all. Nor will the elevated heat. So I'd dose the entire tank, having done so before with my fish with no problems. As for the heater, I'd get the tank as hot as it will go. Sometimes it will go beyond the # on the dial. If it won't then either accept the temp as the best you can do, or buy another heater. I hate to recommend it because others have had troubles but I have had good luck with Ebo Jager heaters. They are the only heater I've found that gets the tank beyond 90ºF.

[markwill]

OK - thanks for some VERY kind assistance from Greg Richardson (thanks Greg!!!), I now have a 20 gallon tank set up - in my garage - as a hospital tank. I bought a smaller Aquaclear and took media from the Aquaclear on my showtank. Stripes has been in there since last night and added the appropriate dosage of Metro before adding. The weak link in this is the temperature - the highest heater I could find last night goes to 90 degrees. I hope that still allows Metro to work.

It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. Any thoughts on when I should expect to see an improvement? And when should I do water changes (I am thinking about how the Metro will be less effective with each water change).

Thanks.

Mark

[Dave C]

When I use metro I dose at a rate of 400mg per 10g. I get the temp up to 93ºF. The drug has a life of 8 hours so I dose the tank 3x a day and do a 50% w/c each day just before dosing the tank. I do this for 4 days and then give the fish a 3 day rest and repeat if there is no improvement. Then I leave the fish in the tank with the temp the same but no drugs. They should start eating. After they're eating for a good week I return them to their normal tank.

[Carol_Roberts]

I would do as Dave recommended above.

[markwill]

I would do as Dave recommended above.
Doing :-) I can't tell you how excited I would be to see improvements in Stripes.

Mark

[markwill]

Stripes seems reasonably content in his new tank but he must be kinda bored - just swimming back and forth all day long in a bare tank :-) I don't see any obvious signs of stress, etc (should I add salt anyway, to counteract the stress associated with being alone and having moved tanks?).

So fa I haven't SEEN him eat anything. However, I placed a small amount of frozen bloodworm in the tank on Tuesday evening but couldn't find them on Wednesday morning. I COULD be that the current from the filter had bunched them up in a corner somewhere but I couldn't find them. I have tried flakes and a few more frozen bloodworm in but, so far, no pecks on this. I have seen no feces either yet.

I am using 750mg of metro, 3 times a day (it's a 20 gallon tank).

A slight worry back in the main tank is that Stripes' best buddy (who is called Tigger - I have no idea why since he has absolutely no resemblance to the "real" Tigger!) is kinda sulking in a corner a bit. He is my second largest fish (4.5 inches or so) - a San Marah. He tended to swim around the tank with Stripes (quite a lovely sight together) but no he stays in one corner near a heater. The good news is that he does eat a little, although not as much as before I moved Stripes. Should I be concerned.

Anyway, with Stripes being treated in a seperate tank I do hope that I see improvement soon.

Thanks.

Mark

[markwill]

An update on Stripes. Basically - nothing. He's been in his hospital tank since Wednesday evening and I have upped the temperature and treated with Metro three times a day (750mg in a 20 gallon tank). I've been doing 50% water changes daily (adding the Metro after the water change). I also added some salt in case he's in stress (I know I would be after even a day without food!!).

Despite what I thought might have been a good sign (see previous post) I am now not so sure. I'm tried various foods - flake and frozen bloodworm (which he was given by the dealer) and frozen brine shrimp. He just watches it float to the bottom and spends the rest of the day swimming over it.

So, he's now approaching 3 weeks without food. Interestingly, he actuall looks OK although I think I am detecting him start to thin now.

To some extent I had the sense that the intestinal worms thing was a "best guess". It certainly made sense to approach the problem as if it was this but the use of a hospital tank, Metro, etc, etc seem to have had no effect yet. Should I just continue on the curent path?

Mark

[markwill]

By the way, I should add that the nitrites are basically down to zero now iin my main tank. I took the advice to hold off on the water changes for a few days and that seems to have allowed the bacteria to grow and do their thing. Right now I have no ammonia (or at least none worth worrying about - Prime has locked any up), no nitrites and very low nitrates (5 ppm).

So, with all this in mind, I'm wondering if there is any logic in moving Stripes back into the main tank and whether the change of environment might tempt him to eat again (he looks awfully bored where he is). Tigger -my San Marah - would be very happy!

If Stripes DID have intestinal worms, what are the chances that they would survive after the treatment Stripes has had?

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Moving itself is very stressful. I see little chance that he will start eating if moved back to the main tank since he is not eating at all now. IF Metro hasn't worked after all this time intestinal flagellates may not have been the problem or may have been a secondary problem. Once you have completed this course of treatment, leave temp up and leave him in hospital tank for another week. Feed a few bloodworms once a day (don't bother adding flakes, brine, etc). After that week lower temp 1 or 2 degrees per day. You can try him back in the main tank then. Not all fish can be cured. If he doesn't make it chalk this up as as a valuable learning experience.

[markwill]

Moving itself is very stressful. I see little chance that he will start eating if moved back to the main tank since he is not eating at all now. IF Metro hasn't worked after all this time intestinal flagellates may not have been the problem or may have been a secondary problem. Once you have completed this course of treatment, leave temp up and leave him in hospital tank for another week. Feed a few bloodworms once a day (don't bother adding flakes, brine, etc). After that week lower temp 1 or 2 degrees per day. You can try him back in the main tank then. Not all fish can be cured. If he doesn't make it chalk this up as as a valuable learning experience.
Thanks Carol. When would the "course of treatment" be complete? Would you suggest I carry on with the metro?

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

5 days of metro in a row + 7 days no metro with temp still elevated, then lower over a couple of days. Feed sparingly each day and 50% WC every day.

[markwill]

Gotcha. Do I continue this even if Stripes eats and looks fine well before that timeline is up? I confess I am really eager to see him back with his buddies :-)

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

yes - you need to give the stomach time to heal after killing the intestinal flagellates.

[markwill]

I AM THRILLED!!!! Stripes is eating!!! On Saturday I walked to his hospital tank and noticed that none of the bloodworm remained. I did see some in the filter and had this concern that they might all have found their way there so didn't want to jump to conclusions (I had never seen Stripes actually eat any). But yesterday I added a few more bloodworm - and stayed perfectly still! Sure enough, after about 5 mins he started taking one or two little pecks (about 1 bloodworm every couple of minutes - he's not a quick eater!!!).

What is interesting is that he seems very reluctant to eat when there is movement outside the tank. He hasn't had any of his mad dashes around the tank that he had in the showtank now and again - but he does kinda shrink into a corner a little when he sees movement. It was only after 5 mins of apparent stillness that he moves gently to one of the bloodworms. We saw this over and over - only eating when we are "stealthy". We went out for the day, though, and when we got back all the bloodworms had been eaten up.

Has anyone seen a fish that only appears to eat when he believes he's alone?

All that said, I am completely thrilled. I am sure a good number of you have seen similiar situations but this is the first time I've had such a challenge and it's wonderful to see him (hopefully) on his way back. He remains a very attractive fish and now has a special personality to me :-)

As Carol suggested, I'll see this treatment through and hopefully his eventual return to my showtank won't freak him out so that he goes on hunger strike again! Since the hospital tank is only 20 gallons I guess I have the option of carrying that (half full) tank over to the show tank and tipping Stripes into the maintank, which would avoid a "capture" in a net. Would that be less stressful or am I worrying over nothing?

Thanks again for all those that have helped.

Mark

[leeg]

I AM THRILLED!!!! Stripes is eating!!! On Saturday I walked to his hospital tank and noticed that none of the bloodworm remained. I did see some in the filter and had this concern that they might all have found their way there so didn't want to jump to conclusions (I had never seen Stripes actually eat any). But yesterday I added a few more bloodworm - and stayed perfectly still! Sure enough, after about 5 mins he started taking one or two little pecks (about 1 bloodworm every couple of minutes - he's not a quick eater!!!).

What is interesting is that he seems very reluctant to eat when there is movement outside the tank. He hasn't had any of his mad dashes around the tank that he had in the showtank now and again - but he does kinda shrink into a corner a little when he sees movement. It was only after 5 mins of apparent stillness that he moves gently to one of the bloodworms. We saw this over and over - only eating when we are "stealthy". We went out for the day, though, and when we got back all the bloodworms had been eaten up.

Has anyone seen a fish that only appears to eat when he believes he's alone?

All that said, I am completely thrilled. I am sure a good number of you have seen similiar situations but this is the first time I've had such a challenge and it's wonderful to see him (hopefully) on his way back. He remains a very attractive fish and now has a special personality to me :-)

As Carol suggested, I'll see this treatment through and hopefully his eventual return to my showtank won't freak him out so that he goes on hunger strike again! Since the hospital tank is only 20 gallons I guess I have the option of carrying that (half full) tank over to the show tank and tipping Stripes into the maintank, which would avoid a "capture" in a net. Would that be less stressful or am I worrying over nothing?

Thanks again for all those that have helped.

Mark

I am glad to hear your fish is eating again, I would still quarntine him for at least a month before re-introducing him back into the showtank and make sure he is eating normally. As for returning him into the showtank this is how I normally do it and it was worked very well for me.

1. I siphon some the water for the quarntine tank into a bucket
2. I gently net the fish and put him into the bucket
3. I drip some water for the main tank into the bucket for around 20-40mins
4. I gently net the fish from the bucket and into the the main tank

However I wouldn't just shut down the quarntine tank just yet, watch the fish like a hawk for the next 48 hours just to make sure he's acting normally. If he for some reason decides to go back to his past I would take him out again and continue quarntineing him. I think I would be more stressfull carrying the tank to the showtank because the water will rock all over the place causing more stress, and carrying a 20gallon tank with water is not thing I would want to do.

Anyways good luck.

oh btw is stripes a blue diamond discus?

[markwill]

I am glad to hear your fish is eating again, I would still quarntine him for at least a month before re-introducing him back into the showtank and make sure he is eating normally. As for returning him into the showtank this is how I normally do it and it was worked very well for me.

1. I siphon some the water for the quarntine tank into a bucket
2. I gently net the fish and put him into the bucket
3. I drip some water for the main tank into the bucket for around 20-40mins
4. I gently net the fish from the bucket and into the the main tank

However I wouldn't just shut down the quarntine tank just yet, watch the fish like a hawk for the next 48 hours just to make sure he's acting normally. If he for some reason decides to go back to his past I would take him out again and continue quarntineing him. I think I would be more stressfull carrying the tank to the showtank because the water will rock all over the place causing more stress, and carrying a 20gallon tank with water is not thing I would want to do.

Anyways good luck.
Thanks for the feedback. Good points - especially the renetion of the hospital tank just in case. I was actually thinking of reducing the water to 8-10 gallons, which isn't too bad to carry, but your ideas make sense. What has always concerned me is the struggle fish go through when they are netted - I get pretty stressed just thinking about the damage they might do as they dart around like crazy. Perhaps this is a skill I need to pick up but "gentle" and "netting" don't seem to go together for me, no matter how much I try :-) Perhaps it's easier from a smaller tank where the fish has less chance to dart around.

Thanks again.

Mark

[leeg]

The way I net fish is to first get them to a corner, then I slowly move the net towards them and let the fish gradually swim inside the net. In a show tank this method doesnt work that well but in a bare bottom quarntine tank it should work fairly easily.

[markwill]

The way I net fish is to first get them to a corner, then I slowly move the net towards them and let the fish gradually swim inside the net. In a show tank this method doesnt work that well but in a bare bottom quarntine tank it should work fairly easily.
Cool - I'll give it a shot.

By the way, I have a follow up question (from Carol's message) about why it's best to continue the course of treatment for a while after the fish is eating and apparently healthy again. Carol, your suggestion was that this allows the fish's stomach to heal. It's not obvious to me why that process wouldn't continue if the fish was back in the show tank.

I'm not going to rush Stripes back into the show tank but I am eager to understand in detail why I would need to keep him (bored :-)) in the hospital tank well after he's recovered. Tigger is also looking forward to his return.

Thanks again.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

because all his "friends" in the show tank will view him as a threat, chase him away from food and in general shun him. You want him strong enough to hold his own. By the way, your show tank and hospital tank whould have similiar conditions. I'd net him out of the hospital tank and put him directly in the show tank.

[Dave C]

I agree, no need to drip acclimate. Mind you, I grab & plop all fish when I land them, let alone move them from tank to tank. If this fish is eating very cautiously it might not eat after being reintroduced to the main tank. I agree with Carol, give it time. Impatience can only hamper it's recovery.

[gugu]

Mark,

How are you?

I bought 3 fishes from Mac's and I have the same problem with you. All of them have not eating yet. It has been 3 weeks now.
I am worried..
How is Stripe doing?

Hendro

[markwill]

Mark,

How are you?

I bought 3 fishes from Mac's and I have the same problem with you. All of them have not eating yet. It has been 3 weeks now.
I am worried..
How is Stripe doing?

Hendro
See my earlier posting - Stripes is finally eating, although only when no-one is watching :-) I''ll not relax until he's eating like crazy AND back in the show tank (I am going to take my time) but the signs are much better.

To be fair, I have bought all my (7) discus from Macs and the other six are eating like crazy. I did have one fish that went from no peppering at Mac's to pretty substantial peppering within a day or so of getting him into my tank but that's entirely a lack of education on my part. I now specifically don't go for pidgeon bloods so I can avoid that and Mac's was very helpful in helping me restrict my choices accordingly (I may still be missing something - peppering just strikes me as "unattractive" so it's not clear why anyone would specifically WANT a pidgeon blood).

Anyway, in summation, my experience with Mac's has been good. I have picked up all my fish and he's been very helpful. I have heard he's a tad pricey - but I obviously save a lot compared to purchasing from afar and having to pay big shipping fees. I am told that there is a dealer in Kent but I haven't had a chance to check him out yet. If someone - Greg perhaps? - has a URL I'd be interested, purely as an alternative to Mac's if I need one (although one can't beat having to travel less than 1.5 miles to see some pretty attractive discus, as is the case with Mac's!!!).

Mark

[markwill]

Anyone have any thoughts on how I can convince Stripes to be a little less cautious with what's going on outside the tank. Based on what disappears, he seems to be eating fine now. But he still freezes like a rock whenever he detects any movement outside the tank. Some good points have been made here about being patient to introduce him back into my show tank (and I do plan to be patient) but I am also aware that discus like to have buddies around them. Stripes has been on his lonesome now for a week - isn't there some sort of stress associated with this, for a fish that likes to be amongst others?

I am concerned that the show tank - by definition - is in a much busier area of the house and if he's freaking out right now whenever someone as much as breathes near him I am not sure how he'll react when he's back in a living room (completely with energetic kids).

While he's seeing out his time on the hospital tank, are there any tactics that would make him a little less cautious?

Thanks.

Mark

[Carol_Roberts]

Some fish are always flighty - others will calm down when they become used to the routine - you'll just have to wait and see how he does next week back in the main tank.

[Pupongay]

Mark-
How about showing us pictures of STRIPE. Have been keeping track of STRIPE's development since day 1 and curious on how he looks like. Hoping for the best for STRIPE.

[markwill]

Good point!!! I think that's a fair request :-) However, Stripes is currently in a rather dark area (in a hospital tank in the garage with no light dedicated to the tank). So, it would be hard to get a decent picture in that light. How about I promise to do so at the time of his triumphant return to the showtank? :-)

Mark

[gugu]

Hello all...

Thank you for all the help.
I bought a 20 gallons and medicate my fish with Metro.Crank up the temp for my 3 discuss who have the same symtomps as Stripes.. ..

After two days.. they are eating like crazy...

Will keep them for couple more days and re-introduce to the main tank...

I'll post picture tomorrow...


Thank you all...

Hendro

[markwill]

I bought a 20 gallons and medicate my fish with Metro.Crank up the temp for my 3 discuss who have the same symtomps as Stripes.. ..

After two days.. they are eating like crazy...

Will keep them for couple more days and re-introduce to the main tank...

Hendro
Hendro,

It was good to talk to you a couple of days ago - seems we bought from the same dealer, have the same issues and had the same happy conclusion. Which is nice...

One word of caution. Although I am personally very eager to get Stripes back in the show tank, the advice I've received from the kind people on this thread suggests that I am best leaving him at least a week on his own. You plan seems to be to move your recovered friends back into their main tank about 4 days after they have started eating again.

I have no experience to suggest this is problematic but - based on comments here - you may wish to wait a little longer, tough though I know that it is :-)

Thanks and good luck.

Mark

[markwill]

A final update on Stripes (pending a photo, which I still owe the forum).

I returned Stripes to his tank 3 days ago. He went back to his old ways - moving around the tank OK but not interested in any food. I was getting quite concerned and considering moving him back to the hospital tank, even if only for the solitude which he seemed to prefer.

Yesterday, though, he took two little pecks at some frozen bloodworm. I was quite thrilled! This was the first time I had seem him eat in my show tank. Then last night he took a few more and this morning took some ColorBits. This afternoon he seems to have finally realized that food is good - he's moving to where I drop the food in and, although he's not remotely as aggressive as the rest, he's happily moving around taking his share of food. In short, STRIPES IS EATING AGAIN!

I'm very happy. I'm guessing he'll always be the shy one in the tank but at least he has food inside him.

I want to thank all those who have provided such excellent advice on what turned out to be a pretty decent sized thread :-) Stripes is just one fish - but he's MY fish and a special one. He'll always be considered my first "problem" fish - but now my first "recovered" fish.

Thanks again!

Mark

[Dillan]

So would you say that the Metra treatment cured an intestinal parasite problem that your new fish came with?

Or do you think it just took them a long time to settle?

I had a fish waste away recently. Bought Metra to treat him but he died before it arrived (by mail order). I'm not convinced it was a parasite problem in that case though. I think some fish just give up.

My largest fish is a picky eater, and always seems to be showing its stress bars (5" Red turq.). I've never seen any white poop, so I'm not rushing to treat parasites. Does this sound logical to you more experienced folks?

Dillan