Second heater size?

[traco]

I just set up my 90 gallon with a 250 watt heater. It is on pretty much of the time. What size wattage should I get for a second heater?

Also, I have two sponge filters, a hydro IV and V plus a Penguin with sponge filters and a fluval 303 with sponge filters. I would like to take off the fluval canister for both esthetics and power outtages. Are the two sponge filters and Penguin enough filtration for this size tank?

My fish are loving the room in this tank! I haven't seen them do so much swimming around. :D

Barb

[Anonapersona]

Have you added insulation to the back of this tank? You can get any of several different types, I used 1/2" expanded styrene (?) cut to fit, it has a nice blue bubbly surface that is attractive.

I suspect you will want a second heater like the 250 you have. I use a 250w here in TX for 105 gallons, but room temp in the winter is near 68 at night and frequently warmer during the day.

There is a formula for sizing a heater based on the temp difference between the room and the tank, and the gallons involved. Might search manufacturers sites.

[john2gs]

I just set up my 90 gallon with a 250 watt heater. It is on pretty much of the time. What size wattage should I get for a second heater?

Also, I have two sponge filters, a hydro IV and V plus a Penguin with sponge filters and a fluval 303 with sponge filters. I would like to take off the fluval canister for both esthetics and power outtages. Are the two sponge filters and Penguin enough filtration for this size tank?

My fish are loving the room in this tank! I haven't seen them do so much swimming around. :D

Barb

I would get another 250 watt heater (same brand and model). And place on the opposite end of the tank.

[markwill]

I would like to take off the fluval canister for both esthetics and power outtages.
Ah ha - someone who seems to see the canister thing as being as big a threat as I had guessed :-)

I have seen a few posts on these forums along the lines of "I use a canister and think it's great. It could kill all the fish in my tank if I get a power cut when I am unavailable to ensure the canister doesn't come back automatically when power is restored - but it seems like a really good filter when it has power" :-)

This may be a somewhat simplistic perspective but I don't see how anyone can be comfortable running a canister in the knowledge that if a power cut happens when, for example, one is out for the day the end result could be a lifeless tank on return. I guess this depends somewhat on how frequent power cuts are but they are pretty common in my area.

Anyway, it's strangely comforting to see that I'm not the only one who is paranoid about the canister :-)

Thanks.

Mark

[john2gs]

Ah ha - someone who seems to see the canister thing as being as big a threat as I had guessed :-)

I have seen a few posts on these forums along the lines of "I use a canister and think it's great. It could kill all the fish in my tank if I get a power cut when I am unavailable to ensure the canister doesn't come back automatically when power is restored - but it seems like a really good filter when it has power" :-)

This may be a somewhat simplistic perspective but I don't see how anyone can be comfortable running a canister in the knowledge that if a power cut happens when, for example, one is out for the day the end result could be a lifeless tank on return. I guess this depends somewhat on how frequent power cuts are but they are pretty common in my area.

Anyway, it's strangely comforting to see that I'm not the only one who is paranoid about the canister :-)

Thanks.

Mark


same here bro....Im not that much paranoid.

I ONLY have three eheim 2028 canisters filtration system (2 canisters filled w/ bio media only.....1 canister filled w/ mechanical media as well as 1 tray have crushed corals for ph buffering) running my 125 gallon tank. But for safety reasons, I hooked 2 of the canisters to a UPS to run them for about 3-4 hours.

Anyways........if there is a black-out for 24 hours....and you were not home.........using a canister or not............chances of fish dying will also be high due to lack of oxygen. One of my friend is using a sump......... (he forgot to turn on the system), and they went camping. After 24 hours......when he came home.....all fish died :(

So I guess....it really depends on the set-up/luck/situation.....

[markwill]

I ONLY have three eheim 2028 canisters filtration system (2 canisters filled w/ bio media only.....1 canister filled w/ mechanical media as well as 1 tray have crushed corals for ph buffering) running my 125 gallon tank. But for safety reasons, I hooked 2 of the canisters to a UPS to run them for about 3-4 hours.

Anyways........if there is a black-out for 24 hours....and you were not home.........using a canister or not............chances of fish dying will also be high due to lack of oxygen. One of my friend is using a sump......... (he forgot to turn on the system), and they went camping. After 24 hours......when he came home.....all fish died :(

So I guess....it really depends on the set-up/luck/situation.....
Thanks John. Yes, you are right - there are a number of factors here and use of a canister filter is just one of them. My thinking here is that if this is one area that is - apparently - quite easy to address. Filters like the Aquaclear don't seem to have the same issues on return from a power outage, due to fact, I believe, that they are not "enclosed" systems as is the case with a canister, and so the bacteria can still get oxygenated water.

The concern I would have about your set up (not being critical - I am sure you have thought these through - just trying to understand) is that a) what happens when a power cut lasts for, say 6 hours and b) more likely, if you have any power cut you still have one of the three filters that will "return to power" by pumping toxic stuff into the tank. My assumption here is that even mechanical media will have bacteria growing (yes?) - perhaps the amount of bacteria is so low in such a scenario that it's neglibible. Is that the flaw in my understanding here?

As for the lack of oxygen wouldn't a battery powered air pump run for quite a while? I believe some of these detect power outages and start at such a time (out of interest, do they also run from power when it's available?).

Anyway, my approach here is one of "realistic insurance". If it's easy to remove a vulnerability ($35 for a Aquaclear is not bad and it is apparently a perfectly adequate filter) then I have decided to do so, albeit with the understanding that there are still other risks that may be more difficult to address.

Thanks.

Mark

[traco]

I've been wrestling with the canister thing from the beginning. I have kept it running on my tank because I added the other two sponges and Penguin and needed to get them properly cycled. So, now that's happened and now I wonder if these three filters will be enough for my bigger tank.

[markwill]

I've been wrestling with the canister thing from the beginning. I have kept it running on my tank because I added the other two sponges and Penguin and needed to get them properly cycled. So, now that's happened and now I wonder if these three filters will be enough for my bigger tank.
You have a larger tank than mine (I have 72 gallons) I'm going on the assumption that - technically - my single Aquaclear 110 be adequate for my tank (the 110 apparently refers to the maximum size tank it's supposed to support but surely that's dependent on the number of fish, etc). That said, I am considering adding a second Aquaclear when I get rid of my canister to act as a backup in case one fails for some reason.

Thanks.

Mark

[john2gs]

The concern I would have about your set up (not being critical - I am sure you have thought these through - just trying to understand) is that a) what happens when a power cut lasts for, say 6 hours and b) more likely, if you have any power cut you still have one of the three filters that will "return to power" by pumping toxic stuff into the tank. My assumption here is that even mechanical media will have bacteria growing (yes?) - perhaps the amount of bacteria is so low in such a scenario that it's neglibible. Is that the flaw in my understanding here?

As for the lack of oxygen wouldn't a battery powered air pump run for quite a while? I believe some of these detect power outages and start at such a time (out of interest, do they also run from power when it's available?).


Mark

Hey Mark, yeah...I already thought about that. hehehe! I am usually out for 8 hours. Then I go back home. I am pretty sure that black out will not happen as soon as I leave my apartment. hehehe! Chances of that is very slim. Having a UPS is just an extra life-line for my beneficial bacterias (BBs) .......but not REALLY A BULLET PROOF thing. If my UPS runs out of power.....I am still hoping that when I get home, the BBs are still alive. Plus BBs dont die right away. In a canister...they may live one hour or more.

Ohhh about the mechanical filter (one canister) that I have. They may have BBs living....but not too much. Especially, I change the blue coarse pad and white pads every month. So not alot of population of BBs growing, and Im not really worried about toxicity..since it will be very minimal......nothing major compared to a bio-canister.

Yeah.....there are battery operated air pumps that usually run 24 hours. You can also attached it to a UPS (depending on the size of the UPS) usually will last longer...since most air pumps are about 2 watts.

[Cosmo]

Actually, you'll have the same situation with an aqua clear as you would a cannister, the only difference being the bacteria in the aqua clear may live a little longer. A prolonged blackout that kills the bacteria in the aqua clear will
cause it to dump toxins into the water on startup just as a cannister would. The aqua clear bacteria aren't going to live 8 hours if you're not home no more than the bacteria in a cannister would.

I have 4 eheims for bio on my 180, hooked up thru a Tripp Lite APS that will keep them and the air pump all running for about 20 hours in a power outage... more than enough time to get home.

Cannisters are in and of themselves nothing to be afraid of unless you live in an area where outages are common.

I'd stay away from computer style UPS's... they don't live as long as the wattage rating would make you believe because the pumps draw a heavier load than do computers and peripherals.

hth
Jim

[Anonapersona]

It is all relative....

A canister (regular or HOT 250) will be oxygen deprived sooner but is assured to start up when power returns, both good and bad, since once it starts it blows a cloud of noxious stuff into the tank, then starts to cleaning it right up.

An Aquaclear will be more exposed to oxygen but still the bacteria are going to get nasty in there wiht no circulation and will blow noxoius stuff into the tank when it starts up. However, when the power returns, it may or may not start up. Maybe you will burn out the motor, maybe not, maybe it starts right up, take your chances. A Penguin will always start up, and the lack of oxygen is like the Aquaclear, not as bad as a canister but still an issue.

A sponge filter will get nasty fast in a power failure if it is not clean, but if it is pretty clean it won't be too bad. A battery power supply can come on to get air to it when main power is off.

I think the best bet is to combine the sponge with a power sensing battery backup along with any other sort of main filtration unit. I have this only in the main tank, but I do think I can try to add it to the other tank as well. IMO, this allows the tank to have some filtration going at all times, and when the main filter returns, if it blows decayed gunk into the tank, at least the sponge is active and healthy to work on reducing the ammonia and nitrites ASAP.

[BigDaddy]

A Penguin will always start up, and the lack of oxygen is like the Aquaclear, not as bad as a canister but still an issue.


I disagree. As long as the biowheels don't completely dry out, the die off of bacteria in the wheels should be substantially less than an AC.