New show tank advice needed

[JimmyB]

I've read just about everything I can find on discus, and I've talked to a few experienced keepers. I read through the sticky on tank set-up for beginners, but that sounds like it is directed towards breeding the fish, since it recommends a bare-bottom tank. I have a new 110 gallon tall tank, a new stand that is ready today, and I am just about ready to get it set up and cycled.

I would ideally like to have discus, and maybe angelfish. I do not plan to keep a bare-bottom tank, I want to have a planted (or at least plastic plants!), gravel, and perhaps some driftwood. I understand how some people who breed discus change 50% of the water everyday and keep the pH at a level down near 6.0. I just want to have a show tank with discus and perhaps angelfish, maybe a group of Bolivian rams? If I have to change 50% of the water daily, then I guess I can't do it and have to go another direction. Is there a sticky on this site for seeting up a show tank?

[Ax]

Water quality is a mast for discus, and if you plan to have juv. and grow them in to adults, you need heavy feeding, and because of that lots of water changes. On the other hand if you get adults, or fish above 5”, in a planted tank (where LIVE PLANTS will help with Nitrates) You can get away with one 50% a week or two (Monday – Thursday) 35% water changes, but than you should start setting up planted tank, create well established environment (6 month or more) and only than add Discus.

With 110 tall I’d say it should be ok for 6 to 8 adults – depending on how heavy your tank will be planted.

[markwill]

I've read just about everything I can find on discus, and I've talked to a few experienced keepers. I read through the sticky on tank set-up for beginners, but that sounds like it is directed towards breeding the fish, since it recommends a bare-bottom tank. I have a new 110 gallon tall tank, a new stand that is ready today, and I am just about ready to get it set up and cycled.

I would ideally like to have discus, and maybe angelfish. I do not plan to keep a bare-bottom tank, I want to have a planted (or at least plastic plants!), gravel, and perhaps some driftwood. I understand how some people who breed discus change 50% of the water everyday and keep the pH at a level down near 6.0. I just want to have a show tank with discus and perhaps angelfish, maybe a group of Bolivian rams? If I have to change 50% of the water daily, then I guess I can't do it and have to go another direction. Is there a sticky on this site for seeting up a show tank?
Hi Jimmy,

You seem to be in the same situation as I was about 3 months ago - wanting a show tank, determined to make it look good and probably seeing breeding as a nice benefit but not front-and-center of your goals. With that in mind, perhaps my "experience" (as it is!!) and decision process is of interest...

I also pushed back big time on the bare-bottom idea and still due in terms of taking this to the extreme - I think the regular bare-bottom, show me all the plumbing tank looks darned ugly and not suitable for my living room, at least. So, I went out and bought a boatload of gravel, a bunch of plastic plants, a nice background and had a pretty nice look. All my water changes are around 45% or so (if I am going to go to the trouble of getting a water change going the incremental in stretching a 25% to 45% is minor - just a few extra minutes). I do these most Saturdays and Sundays (sometimes just once at the weekend) and generally once during the week.

I am now looking to "streamline" all this by going with a "pseudo bare-bottom tank. I have a number of clay pots with plastic plants. I will probably move to live plants (have put my first one in over the weekend) because they are easier to clean if they are in a pot. I also bought some fake driftwood that looks pretty darned good. I still have a bunch of gravel at one end of the tank, which provides the look of a "reverse" beach (it's all underwater!!) and looks really quite nice. I will redice the gravel over time to the extent that it's a small part of the tank and very easy to clean.

I will then have a largely bare-bottom tank which dramatically simplifies cleaning (not just for me, but my fish can find all uneaten food - apart from poop the tank is spotless even after a few days of this). And all my plumbing is concealed because I still have tall plants blocking the tubes.

I am still tinkering but all in all I am very pleased with this approach.

I hoep this helps.

Mark

[wolfbane]

I change 50% of the water once a week. My tank is lightly planted with low light plants, I hear some of the bunch plants are good for keeping down nitrates, may try that and see if water quality stays good for a longer time. You really have to keep an eye on the chem levels in your tank, a good test kit is a valuable tool. I have discus, cardinal tetras, bristlenose ancistrus, cory cats, in my tank. Rams are a good choice too. Be aware that a planted tank is best for well grown discus, not little babies.

[JimmyB]

So, good news to my ears. There are several local breeders who tell me that the local water, pH around 7.4, will be fine for their fish. Just keep it consistent. I would not buy fry, I have seen some fish that are in the 3" range. (Actually, everything from 2.5" up to 4".) In a 110 gallon tank, am I going to be OK with a group of angelfish as well?

I had a guy form a LFS tell me he changes only about 15% a week of his water. His fish are all mature. Is he nuts?

What other fish do you folks keep with discus?

[Bainbridge Mike]

Hey JimmyB:

I keep angels and I keep discus, but I do not keep them together. There are definitely two camps here--some folks keep them together but many will not. I have heard that angels carry a few diseases (which don't really make the angels sick) that can cause serious problems for discus. At a minimum, you would have some behavioral problems because angels tend to be more aggressive and also eat very quickly, whereas discus like to take their time (so if you are not careful, the angels eat all the food and the discus go hungry). Also, angels are comfortable in the 70's and low 80's, whereas most folks keep their discus at 84 to 86 degrees. I think you are fairly safe keeping the following fish with Discus: Corydoras; small growing suckermouth catfish (e.g. ancistrus, some pekolitas, but not large plecos); and warm water tolerant tetras (e.g. cardinals, rummy nose or african congo).

As far as changing 15% a week, fish can survive but probably would not thrive depending on fish type, filtration and bioload, but I would not call that a good practice under which fish would thrive.

Best of luck,
Mike

[JimmyB]

Well, I've got this 110 gallon tank that is 30" tall. I've kept many species of fish over the years, most recently Africans cichlids. The Africans generally need more footprint space than tank height. Now that I've moved and only have the room to go vertically for my major show tank, I was able to get this nice tank at an affordable cost, and sell off the 125 longer tank. It sure is tall! Wow! After researching, it seemed discus and angels were the best match for a tank with this height. I keep a couple other smaller tanks of various species in the basement. Keeping up with all the tanks will be a pain if I have to do daily or 50% twice a week. (I have to do the bucket brigade when changing water due to the location of my drains and sinks). I might be able to do 30% twice a week. My dream tank would be a group of maybe 4-5 small Koi angels, maybe 2 groups of 3-4 discus, and if room, maybe a small group of blue rams or cockatoos, and a few albino corys. Sounds like this might not be the best situation, I am not the type to force-fit, I want healthy and thriving fish. I'll keep working on getting the tank ready and hopefull come to a decision.

[markwill]

Keeping up with all the tanks will be a pain if I have to do daily or 50% twice a week. (I have to do the bucket brigade when changing water due to the location of my drains and sinks).
Are you SURE you need to do the bucket thing? I have a reasonably sizeable house (3,600 square feet) and my sink is at the exact other end of the house from my tank. I have a 75' tube that drains and fills (the latter from the aged water tank, which is even further away in the garage). Take a few seconds to drag out the thing but it saves a lot of effort thereafter.

Mark

[Greg Richardson]

Jim. Mark is right. Look into pumping your water. I know this hobby sucks the money out of you. But once you are past the expense of hoses and pumps and go from buckets to pumps you'll be so much more happier.
Walmart's biggest pump will pump up a floor level for you.
So if that is the problem it won't be anymore.
My tanks spread out in my house. I drain one into a sink and the other down the tub. In summer I drain them outside and use for water on my plants.
They love it.

[JimmyL]

JimmyL to JimmyB: A warm welcome....Go for the pump idea and you will find your money well spent. You may even want to keep a few more tanks once you have the pump. You can keep plastic plants glue on the bottom of upside down pots or slates along with driftwoods to decorate your tank. It should be added later when you feel comfortable with the community of fish you're planning to keep. Start with a barebottom tank. Koi Angel and discus is fine when small but the issue started when your angels at maturity and wanting to spawn. Hell will break lose. An Altum Angel is a better choice cuase they don't spawn like domestic Angels. You should be jumping for joy if they do spawn with the discus. You don't mind them beating the hell out of your discus. I can see problems ahead if you don't already have an established community tank to start with. Think about every new item or fish added to the show tank has to be quarantined. It's best to add the discus the last after they are fully quarantined with your established fish acting as a medium to introduce them to their new home.
Jimmy