Don't understand. Have lighting questions

[ecrew]

Hi everyone!!!

I have a 75 gal Discus tank in my den. I do not have real plants. Just gravel, driftwood and some plastic plants. Anyway, I bought a Current Orbit Power Compact 4/65 watt light w/legs and put in the 6700k bulbs.
I had several people on simply to tell me that that was too much light for Discus and that I would have a serious algae problem. They were definitely
right about the algae!!!!!! It takes me forever to vacuum. I had a horrible algae problem. I recently removed quite a bit of gravel, did a 75% w/c, removed some of the driftwood to air out and turned the lights off. The algae problem seems under control, but I haven't gone back to the power compact. I put a 24" strip light on the tank which I think is ugly.

Anyway.....I posted a thread under general discussion asking for options on lighting because I'm thinking of not using the power compact anymore. My question to everyone here is how come you all with planted tanks use these high powered lights and are still able to keep Discus? What do you do to control the algae? Do your Discus have problems with the lighting?

When I would vacuum, I would get tons and tons of mulm + algae. It was annoying and it took forever to clean.

I would prefer to still use my power compact because I think it looks good on the tank. I know that's a silly reason, but I have it now and it's paid for.
If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it!!!!!!!

Liz

[Scavenger]

Well, when you added the lights, you created a nice growth enviroment for algae and/or plants. Since you lack plants the algae has no competion for the nutrients in your water and grew out of control. If you were to replace your plastics with real ones, the appropriate substrate for your chosen plants and had your water perameters in check, then it is a good bet that the plants would out compete the algae for all the yummie stuff in your water and you would have a nice planted tank like the ones you are reading about.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[ecrew]

Scavenger,

I'm just not ready to do real plants yet. What can I do to decrease the amount of nutrients in the water that algae love? Should I increase my w/c's? Feed less?

I have 7 3-4" Discus in a 75 gal tank. I do 2 30-50% w/c per week. I feed 3-4 cubes of bloodworms a day (sometimes twice a day). I also feed flake food and Spectrum.

Too much food? To0 little w/c's? Too much light? Or all of the above? :o

[mattb]

The trouble with algae is that it will grow in any water where there is light. On top of that you have fish that require large amounts of food that is high in protein. On top of this they produce a large amount of poo. All of this makes a perfect breeding ground for algae. You can try and reduce the nutrient level by removing excess food straight after feeding and doing regular water changes, but you may not have the time or the inclination. In these circumstances you may have to resort to changing the lighting you have or possibly go with a UV sterilizer or diatom filter. These filters won't cure the problem but they may help the symptoms, although hair algae may still be a problem.

Good luck,

Matt

[ecrew]

Thanks, Matt!

I've looked into the UV sterilizers but I just can't buy one right now. I think what i'm going to do is reduce the time the lights are on, control the feeding (I think i'm overfeeding) and increase the w/c. Hopefully that will help keep the algae under control. Maybe at some point we can buy a UV.

Thanks!! :)

[shalu]

I don't understand why you want so much light if you are not growing real plants. I would simply use a 48" T8, saves you ton of electricity bill. Put it on timer to go on only 8-10 hours a day, and you will have close to zero algae. UV will NOT solve your algae problem, it only killls what is in water, not on plant surface.

[ecrew]

shalu,

I picked the power compact because I could mount it on legs so that it would sit above the glass instead of on top of the glass. I liked the look of it too. I know that sounds silly, but I thought the plain strip lights laying on top of the glass looked ugly.
I knew when I bought it that it would probably be too much light, but again, I thought it was cool looking and it allowed me to have access to the tank without having to remove the strip light when I wanted to clean.

What is a T8?

[shalu]

T8 is regular fluorescent tube, 1" diameter.

Then your best options is to use only TWO light bulbs, not four. Put it on timer, no more than 8 hours a day. So the light is on only when you are home to view the fish, say couple of hours in the morning, a few hours in the evening. You will have MUCH less algae. The timer costs $5 to $9 at Home Depot, depending on if your light has two or three prong plugs.

[ecrew]

We only use the 2 daylight bulbs. They are SunPac 6700k. We never turn on the actinic light.

We have the Current Orbit Power Compact 48" 4/65 watt. 2 daylight, 2 actinic and 2 lunar lights.

[shalu]

photo period is the key. There is a huge difference between lighting only a few hours and 12 hours, in terms of algae growth.

[ecrew]

Thanks!

I was leaving the lights on anywhere from 13-14 hrs/per day. I guess that's my #1 problem!

:o Live and Learn. :o

[Alight]

I'd turn on your PC lights only when you actually want to look at the tank. Room lighting is pretty much all the fish need.

If you do that, you'll only have some brown algae (diatoms) that you'll need to wipe off your tanks sides and plants from time to time.

Going with the T-8 lamp won't eliminated the algae, it will only decrease it (I have that lamp on my 55 gallon fry tank, and I still have plenty of algae.) Still have to wipe down the algae every few days.

You won't be able to get rid of the algae by getting rid of the nutrients, you'll only change the variety. Yucky blue-green algae does not need any nitrates from your fish. It will get all it needs from the air dissolved in the water.

Plants are not the solution either. Unless you go with CO2 injection lots of plants of the right kinds, algae eaters of various varieties and even then have times with troubles (just go to the planted tank sites and you will see tons of info on people having problems even when they do it right).

Plants do look nice, though, and I really do like my show tank. It's just a lot of work, and one of the work items is taking care of the algae that the algae eaters won't eat. Not much mulm to clean up, though, and I can change the water much less often and not have nitrates accumulate. However, that doesn't make up for the extra work involved!

[shalu]

Plants are not the solution either. Unless you go with CO2 injection lots of plants of the right kinds, algae eaters of various varieties and even then have times with troubles.

I have close to zero algae in my low tech planted tank(55 gallon), not just the high tech one. I don't depend on algae eaters anymore either. Haven't wiped the tank for more than a year.


just go to the planted tank sites and you will see tons of info on people having problems even when they do it right

that means they haven't got it quite right yet :) But it can be done, just not so easy for beginners to achieve that.

[Scavenger]

I agree with a lot of points shalu makes. It is my opinion that a low tech planted tank is quite easy to obtain and a dedicated maintenance routine will ensure it thrives.

I don't dose with CO2, I have 160 watts over 110 gallons of water and still can get up to 6 inches of plant growth a week. (the val gets that in a day!!)

I like to toss the old 1 inch per gallon rule right out the window and keep a smaller bio load. Why push the limits? Though my 110 gallon is still not mature, I find a daily 20% water change 5 days a week coupled with a 10% hoovering water change twice a week keep the water in prime condition. I feel if I'm going to look at the tank for hours each day, then 1/2 hour of daily maintenance isn't much to ask of myself.

I think if you are going to have a substrate, you are far better off getting live plants in there. They will pull nutients out of the substrate and water column that can harm your fish. Plants are natures filters and substrates will hold and hide stuff on you.

The above is only my opinion and preferance. We all see this hobby differantly.

[ecrew]

Thanks to everyone!!!

Alight, I moved the power compact back on top of the tank last night and added one of those huge Fancy Plants to provide extra shade. I plan on having the lights just when we're here (morning and evening). The natural sunlight in the room does provide enough light during the day.

Scavenger, I removed quite a bit of gravel to aid in cleaning. I realize that a lot gets trapped down in there. I would love to have plants, but i'm just not ready for the learning curve. Plus, I really don't really want to have to buy anymore equipment right now (CO2 injectors etc....). Again, I would LOVE to have real plants. I don't think I would even mind the maintenance part (trimming, vacuuming etc...), but the learning curve is still there. I'm so afraid of hurting the Discus I have now. I'm worried that they would become guinea pigs during the learning phase. If I had a spare tank that I could work with, then I might consider planting it and learning with it, but again, I really don't want to spend the money yet.

I'll just keep vacuuming every other day. I plan to do 30% w/c every other day. I was only doing it twice a week. Hopefully that will keep the mulum to a minimum.

Thanks to all of you for your advice and suggestions!!!!

Liz :)

[ecrew]

One more thing.....

I know where to come when I do decide to work with plants. :) You guys here are very knowledgable! I know you all will set me straight! :) :)

[FischAutoTechGarten]

www.thekrib.com (http://www.thekrib.com) is a great source for info regarding planted tanks

also, wouldn't hurt to subscribe to the aquatic-plants-digest either. you can find info on the www.thekrib.com (http://www.thekrib.com) for that.

[Dood Lee]

The www.plantedtank.net forum is an even better place to go. It's where I learned how to keep my planted discus tank. I post there from time to time, I know shalu keeps a journal of his tank there. And Rex Grigg posts there also. If you are a beginner at planted tanks, visit his site - www.rexgrigg.com. Tells you everything you need to know about setting up a planted tank.

[ecrew]

Thanks for the websites!!!

I'm at home today waiting on the AC guy so i've been able to observe my discus during the daytime with the tank lights off. I turned them on this morning for feeding.
They stayed hidden most of the time because they're very skittish right now. With the addition of the tankmates (i've removed recently) and me doing a major cleanup on the tank, they run whenever I get near them. Anyway, they did eventually eat their breakfast after the family had left for work and school. I turned the tank lights off and I've been sneaking peaks at them throughout the day. They're doing great!!!
They're swimming around and seem very happy.

I just gave them some flake food and they actually thought about greeting at the top of the tank, but at the last minute they decided against it. :o I know they'll bounce back soon. :)

Liz

[shalu]

I started learning about planted tank at thekrib.com, but it has not been updated for a LONG time. Lots of things have been dis-proven now, mostly in the fertilization part.

[ecrew]

I've been limiting the lighting to 2 hours in the morning and 3 hrs or so in the evening. I use the natural sunlight coming in from the windows for lighting during the day. I've also been watching how much I feed and trying to not overfeed. I also rinsed out the sponges in the Fluval and cleaned the inside of it too.

Last night I vacuumed the gravel and noticed a HUGE difference in the amount of gunk I siphoned! There's a HUGE difference in the algae too!!!!

I'm a lot happier and the fish seem to be getting over the trama of me changing their routine and doing a deep clean on their tank!!!

Yeah!!!! :D