Question about mulum.

[ecrew]

Hi everyone!

I have a 75 gal tank with minimal gravel and some driftwood with 7 3-4" Discus that I've had since April/May timeframe. When I bought them, they were 2.5-3". Some haven't been getting any bigger for about 1-2 months now. I was doing 30% w/c twice a week and feeding twice/day. I've beening trying to add another w/c, but I haven't adding an additional feeding since I don't have an automatic feeder.

Anyway, when I do w/c, I vacuum up quite a bit of mulum each time. My water parameters are great (Ammonia = 0, Nitrite = 0 and Nitrate = 5). I use aged water when I do a w/c and I do my best to change my carbon cartridges in my penguin at least every 4-6 weeks. I also try to keep a prefilter on the intake of the Fluval and the Penguin. I've cleaned the Fluval out a few times since we got them.

How come I have so much mulum? It looks like the Discus eat all I give them.
I try to thoroughly vacuum all of the gravel when I do a w/c, but I still seem to have a lot of mulum.

I really don't want to go BB because I like the way gravel looks etc..., but I really need to figure out how to cut down on the mulum because it takes me so long to vacuum.

I knew the power compact I have was causes a ton of algea growth so I limit the tank lights to 2 hours in the morning and 3-5 in the evening. The algea is a lot more under control now. I seem to have less mulum too, but it's still too much in my opinion.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions!
Liz

[Moon]

Mulm is usually a combinationof un eaten food and discus excretion. I find that uneaten flake creates a lot of mulm. Cut back on the quantity of food and increase your wc to at least every other day.

[ecrew]

Thanks, Moon!

If I get an automatic feeder in order to feed a couple of meals during the day, will I need to do w/c everyday?

[Moon]

It is advisable to do wc every day. I do it every other day and my fish are doing great. But my tanks are bb and fairly easy to remove all un eaten food. If I leave it any longer mulm accumulates in the corners.
hth

[Dillan]

Resistance is futile... lol... I ignored the advice of most people here when I first started my discus tank a year ago. I couldn't imagine an aquarium without gravel and plants and really didn't want one in the middle of my living room no matter how practical everyone said it was.

Well, to make a long story short, my tank sprang a leak one day and I had to completely re-do it. I didn't put the gravel back in. Since Discus really like to be able to hide/graze in plants, I just put a bunch of big Amazon Swords in clay pots full of gravel and substrate.

Plants are doing great. Fish are doing great. Much easier to clean up every day (water current pushes most mulum into 2 or 3 spots in the tank. I do W/C every other day, but do a quick vacuum the other days.)

Although it doesn't look like any other aquarium I've ever had in 35 years of keeping fish, I actually think it looks pretty cool with the potted plants.

I think if you really want big fish, you have to sacrifice your gravel. On the other hand, you don't necessarily need to set size records, so you might just want to enjoy your tank as it is.

Dillan

[ecrew]

Dillan,

Thanks!

Do you have a picture of your tank?

Liz

[cobaltblue]

Hey dillon, could you post or email me a picture of your tank. I still have mine planted, and like you, cant fathom the possibility of a bare bottom tank in the middle of my living room. I do have a 33g bb tank downstairs for growing out juvies, but i think most bb tanks are butt ugly. I havnt seen many pics
of potted tanks....if you could that would be appriciated.

[Dillan]

Here's my potted plant tank -- hope you like (the fish do!)

http://www.geocities.com/dillan416/images/fish1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/dillan416/images/fish2.jpg


Awwww... I miss my big Red Turq. It didn't respond to treatment and eventually succumbed to parasites. :(

[ppv1951]

very nice tank!

pat.

[ecrew]

Looks very nice! :)

I'm still not sure I could get used to a BB tank. :o

[Alight]

Yes, tons of mulm for juvies. I could siphon twice a day in my bare bottom tanks that only have one pair!!

You should be feeding the juvies much more---6 or more times a day. The like to graze on the food on the bottom, and in a bare bottom tank will eat every last bit in an hour or so.

As adults, twice a day, and only one big meal at day seems to work. Much less mulm, and you can change water and gravel vac twice a week in a planted tank. Still alot of work, but less than with the juvies.

[cobaltblue]

Good looking tank dillon. Im from abbotsford, so we are almost neighbours.
Take care.

[ecrew]

Alight,

Are you saying that 3-4" size are juvs? I considered them juvs when we first got them (2.5-3), but they're a little bigger now. I have a 55 gal that has 5 3-5+" Discus in it. Much less mulum in there. They eat all the food before it has a chance to sink to the bottom. 3 of the 5 are over 5" +.
Liz

[Dood Lee]

I have a fully planted tank, and I don't vaccuum out any of the mulm at all. It just sinks into the gravel. I always assumed that the plants would just use it for nutrients, so I never bothered removing it. When I do a water change, I just skim the vac slightly above the surface of the gravel. Anything that is picked up is dumped, if not, I don't really care much. Hasn't affected my water quality or my discus.

[April]

Dood Lee. how big are your discus?
even those potted plants can get anerobic..i had one potted sword once..in a big tank. i could always smell the water..your water shouldnt have a smell..if its very clean water. it was the plant..food had been falling in there..and it went anerobic. ever smell old water that sits outside over the winter in a bucket? stinks like sewer when you dump it. so..if you can..take your plants out and rinse them thoroughly everynow and then.

[ecrew]

Well....I made a decision last night about my tanks.

I'm going to remove the gravel from my 55 gal and put all of my babies
in it, get an automatic feeder and grow them out. I'm going to
put my adults in the show tank downstairs with the gravel and decorations etc...
and only feed twice a day.

Hopefully, I'll start seeing more growth with my babies and I'll have an easier
time maintaining the tanks. Last night I cleaned the 75 gal (downstairs tank).
It took me almost an hour from start to finish to do a 50% w/c. I spent
half the time vacuuming. I don't mind cleaning the tanks and taking care of
my fish, but I don't want to spend 1 hour on 1 tank. :(

Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions!

Liz

[Dood Lee]

Dood Lee. how big are your discus?
even those potted plants can get anerobic..i had one potted sword once..in a big tank. i could always smell the water..your water shouldnt have a smell..if its very clean water. it was the plant..food had been falling in there..and it went anerobic. ever smell old water that sits outside over the winter in a bucket? stinks like sewer when you dump it. so..if you can..take your plants out and rinse them thoroughly everynow and then.

April, I'm actually quite new to discus. I got my first wild greens just a few months ago - end of July I think. My water doesn't smell I think. I don't notice any odor. The plants in my tank are anubias, some crypt spiralis (they look like vals), some anubias, and one Amazon sword. I don't think that food collects anywhere, I feed frozen bloodworms via a cone that sits at the top of the aquarium, so the discus eat from there. I feed my tetras and corydoras catfish with flakes every other day, and the cory cats also eat up any other uneaten bits of food that happen to fall to the gravel.

[Alight]

Sorry, didn't get back till now. I judge the age more by maturity than size. If they are laying eggs, they're adults.

The active breeders eat lots of food. When they are not breeding (they take a rest every so often for a few weeks), or those that never paired up, eat much less--usually only eating one big meal a day, no matter how much food they have available.

If your fish are still getting very fat at a single meal, and doing this several times a day, they are juvies. When they eat quite a lot, but they seem to stay pretty much the same size (not bulging after a meal, and not skinny later on) they are pretty much adults. You will notice the difference. I see that you have figured that out with your 3-5+ fish.

It's harder to tell the difference in a gravel tank than a bare bottom tank, because you can't see how fast the food on the bottom is being consumed.

I have a split tank showtank with lots of plants in the back, divided by a rock wall from almost no plants in the front. Deep gravel in the back, very little in the front. I feed in the front. I can gravel vac the front completely, but because of the plants, can only do a small amount in the back.

[April]

sounds good. if you have the cone and the cories cleaning up should be ok. just keep an eye you dont get a smell..as the discus get stressed easily with too much bio.
ive heard it say..you should be able to drink the water..and no fish taste. yucky..pooey..i havent tried it. lol.

[Dood Lee]

sounds good. if you have the cone and the cories cleaning up should be ok. just keep an eye you dont get a smell..as the discus get stressed easily with too much bio.
ive heard it say..you should be able to drink the water..and no fish taste. yucky..pooey..i havent tried it. lol.

Too much bio, or too much waste? Even if the there is some debris that makes it to the bottom, I do a 10% water change every other day. No uneaten food ever makes it into my bucket, so I assume that the corys get it all.

[ecrew]

Alight,

Thanks! I moved all the small discus to a BB 55 gal tank. They do eat a lot!
I can tell they are eating better and consuming more with the BB. I moved my 4 big guys into the show tank. They usually eat almost everything I put in before it has time to settle on the bottom. They seem very happy, even after the move.