NEWBY NEEDS HELP!!!!

[chago09]

Ok i have recently purchased 3 inch discus. I was told they were Turqoise discus. I'm not realy sure though cause i've had them for a two weeks now and they really haven't show much color yet. they just look yellow with black bars and a litle mixture of a metalic blue and red around eyes and fins. If anyone can help me identify the specie that would help? also they constantly hide. I do not know why. the act as if there still scared from the move. Its been two weeks. Some people say don't give them hididng spots but thats how there habitat is so I feel bad. What should i do to make them more comfortable and to swim around. Like at the store i saw some today that would pick at your finger and stuff if you put your hand in. Mine never come out period. Lastly is eating. OMG PICKY PICKY PICKY!!!!!! does anyone know how to feed these guys. I have tired freeze dried brine shrimp, brine shrimp flakes, regular fish flakes, freeze dried bloodworms and frozen mosquito larvae. NOTHING!!!!!!! :mad: they just let it fall to the floor and they just nibble around later on but by the time they get to the food the Cories eat it all. Is there a certain techinique to feeding them, any foods that for sure will work? I heard red food for some reason attracts them. I think Hikari makes a red pellet food thats made just for discus. Anyways please someone I want the whole 411 on these Fish. type me an entire book lol. I've had fish tanks for many years but am new to discus. they are so darn nice but starting to really tick me off LOL:mad:

HELP ME PLEASE BEFORE I PULL MY HAIR OUT:argue: :antlers:

[Bainbridge Mike]

Hey,
We can help you better if you tell everyone about your tank setup--size, number and types of fish, etc. You can find threads, if you search, with great information about setting up your first discus tank. Your fish need really clean water--so keep up on your water changes. One of the best first foods for discus is frozen bloodworms. I like the Hikari brand. Discus usually love them--and they don't pollute your tank terribly if they are not eaten right away. Also, warmer water increases metabolism and usually increases appetities. Try setting your tank at 88 or even 90 degrees for a bit and see how they do. I keep a barebottom tank--but I also keep a large piece of bogwood in the tank so the fish have a place to hide. My fish will hide sometimes--but they always come to the top of the tank to beg for food when you open the lid.

Best of luck,
Mike

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Chag~


I will tell you what I know...which isnt much! First off, try to get some more info for people to work with:


What size tank?

Bare Bottom or planted?

Do you test your water? What are the readings?

Are they in the tank alone?

Did you quarintine them?

Pictures would help to identify them as well~
How often do you change your water? Daily? Temp?

Work on all that for now, and in the mean time cruise around the section, for beginners....


Hang in there! My discus love live black worms!


Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_102.gif

[AADiscus]

Hi Chago09,

Welcome to Simply!

Do you have any pictures of your fish? This might help identify what they are.

Please give us a description of how your tank is set-up, water change routine, how often you are feeding and water parameters. This will help us help you better.

I would take out any decorations/driftwood, etc you might have in the tank. Also a BB tank is best! I would try feeding them some live food, maybe some CBW to see if that might intice them to come out and eat. Everytime you go up to the tank give them just a little nipple of food. Beefheart is really good and most all discus will scarf it up. Do not feed the beefheart unless you are going to be doing a water change afterwards though. One last thing, you might try leaving the tank light on so that you don't scare them when you walk up to the tank. You need to get them used to you. ;)

[White Worm]

Recently purchased from where? And, how were they treated? They may need a substantial time period to settle in. Could be weeks/months.
First things first, relax a little. They wont starve, they actually like to graze all day on foods so if your other fish are eating all the food, move them for a while. Small meals 3-4 times daily. Water changes (40-50% daily) others may say more or less but its a safe range. Raise temp 87-88. Take out the items they are hiding behind,,,not permanently,,, just until they get used to being out in the open (builds their confidence) Sit next to the tank a bunch of times so they can see you and get familiar with you. Mine watch me walk around the room and then come to the top when i get near the tank. They associate you with food so feed them consistantly. Yes, they can be very picky about food. What were they being fed before you owned them? Use that and then slowly introduce other foods. I found that most discus cant resist frozen blood worms from hikari (i just drop a block in and let them go to town, it dissolves quickly). Tank size and pics are a must for us to really help you out further. discus feel more comfortable in groups of 6 or more. With fewer numbers, they will be shy and hide all the time. Always better to get a group of 6-7.
Important to remember that patience is the key!!! It will payoff and you will have them eating out of your hand soon (literally) I pet mine when they are eating (some actually enjoy intereaction with humans)


Ok i have recently purchased 3 inch discus. I was told they were Turqoise discus. I'm not realy sure though cause i've had them for a two weeks now and they really haven't show much color yet. they just look yellow with black bars and a litle mixture of a metalic blue and red around eyes and fins. If anyone can help me identify the specie that would help? also they constantly hide. I do not know why. the act as if there still scared from the move. Its been two weeks. Some people say don't give them hididng spots but thats how there habitat is so I feel bad. What should i do to make them more comfortable and to swim around. Like at the store i saw some today that would pick at your finger and stuff if you put your hand in. Mine never come out period. Lastly is eating. OMG PICKY PICKY PICKY!!!!!! does anyone know how to feed these guys. I have tired freeze dried brine shrimp, brine shrimp flakes, regular fish flakes, freeze dried bloodworms and frozen mosquito larvae. NOTHING!!!!!!! :mad: they just let it fall to the floor and they just nibble around later on but by the time they get to the food the Cories eat it all. Is there a certain techinique to feeding them, any foods that for sure will work? I heard red food for some reason attracts them. I think Hikari makes a red pellet food thats made just for discus. Anyways please someone I want the whole 411 on these Fish. type me an entire book lol. I've had fish tanks for many years but am new to discus. they are so darn nice but starting to really tick me off LOL:mad:

HELP ME PLEASE BEFORE I PULL MY HAIR OUT:argue: :antlers:

[Ryan]

Are there shadows or reflections in or around the tank that might be frightening them? Sometimes this can cause them to be really skittish.

How big is the tank and how many fish did you get? If you have a large aquarium with very few fish, they may feel nervous. Cover the sides or back of the tank with a non-reflective background to make them a little more comfortable. Also, I don't keep hiding places in my tanks because then they are prone to hide. They will get comfortable with you eventually if you just keep feeding them and spending time near the tank.

A lot of young discus start out brown with dark stripes. They often show blue in the face and fins. Turquoise and red turquoise both start out that way. At 3" they should start coloring up soon and continue to do so for the next several months.

Ryan

[chago09]

alright well here's my situation. I was told that a full grown discus only needs about 9-11 gallons per fish. I have 3 in my 30 gallon. I purchased 3 cories that same day cause I knew about the mess of feeding discus a lot so I got the three that were in the same tank at the pet store. I figured if there all in the same tank its less risk. The behaviour of going to the top of the tank and stuff is what I was hoping for because my Oscar and Texas in the other tank are almost like dogs when they see me. My tank is a 30 gallon, well planted with java fern and some other plants not sure about the names. I have a rock in there that has a cave that they are obvioulsy hiding in and I also have a piece of Mopani wood which proides more shelter for them. There is gravel in the tank. In the tank with them is 2 small agassizi cories and one albino cory. all three about 3/4 of an inch. I feed them regularly like you said and I leave the light on about 12 hours a day for my plants. I also do sit a lot close to the tank because the tank is next to my desk. I do my work and stuff on my desk but there is no loud noise while i work its only a my computer and paper work. the rock i will take out but the wood i thought was required to help soften the water. the gravel is kind of too late to take out now, it will be a hell of a job removing all that gravel now. plus my plants are covering the tank and took a long time and a lot of money to create lol. I know all my fish that i've had were all like this for a couple of days but its been two weeks now. I would just be happy just to see them swim up and eat a piece of food thats still floating. not just pick off the floor. Should I maybe feed more then 4 times a day just smaller portions? My water parems are perfect I do water changes every second day about 45%. Obviously while water change I vaccuum aswell. the water that is being added is right temp and has been treated. My tank now sits at 87F. Oh and the picture that Ryan Smith has on his name there looks like my fish.

[chago09]

sorry typing error its a 35 gallon tank!!!

[White Worm]

They are just babies at 1" so time looks to be your cure. Plus, they really require very healthy water to grow healthy. When starting with discus, you should start with a larger discus in the range of 2.5-3", they are stronger and more likely to be friendly. I know what a problem gravel can be but you only have a 35g. Try cleaning and removing everything from 85g after losing some discus (I did it). Its hard to keep the tank clean as it should be even though you think you vaccum good, you can never get all the crud that builds up, especially from feeding alot and young discus waste (alot). Bare-bottom makes things easier and healthier and you can always pot the plants.
TIME is the key and PATIENCE,,,,sometimes settling in period can be weeks or months. Location of tank?? Lighting?? Discus sometimes like to be kept at a higher level so they dont get startled as easy and yes, cover back, sides non reflective material (usually indoor latex paint FLAT). Plus, speedy cories may make them nervous also. JMO

[White Worm]

oops hit the button twice

[chago09]

Ya i think its the location that could be the problem. Something they need to get used to cause my cat likes to sit next to the tank. she likes sleeping next to it cause she loves the filter sound. It's funny though cause as I was sitting here waiting for you guys to reply to me I was watching them and they slowly came out and began swimming around. they are nibbling off the gravel. Thanx a lot. It took me a lot to find this site. I went through soo many sites where I had to wait like 2 days before anyone replied. Some had last posted message in like October lol not vey useful. thanx a lot for the help this site will be very useful. I'll keep you all updated. also what kind of discus is that in ryan Smith pic cause that one looks like my three.

[Kindredspirit]

' I went through soo many sites where I had to wait like 2 days before anyone replied'



Chag~


I can not imagine that~ That would never happen here! You are in good hands~ You can take all that gravel out....I have a 35gal and I took all mine out. I have read where some have done it to late...it was not a good thing~


keep us posted!

Marie~:angel:

[chago09]

Is it really important to have it bare bottom? Like I have a full staff of three cories munching away all day on the floor. Plus I have plants who absorb some of the filth too. Then I vaccuum every second day. Will I have a problem with gravel, just because it looks nice and I feel it is more homey for the fish because they pick at it and they made a little burrow under a piece of Mopani wood and it just feels more like the wild. I think i'm just crazy and want them to be as comfortable as possible LOL. Like explain to me why gravel is such a problem with discus and not other fish?

[White Worm]

Good to see they come out to visit, in time they will become more comfortable with their new surroundings. Mine at first were shy but now they almost jump out of the tank when I walk over. It doesnt hurt that I usually have treats for them. Location has alot to do with comfort because they do startle easy especially if they are young. They will come around, no worries. You lucked out finding this site because there is no better place than simply. I know you think you keep it clean and so did i until i took out the gravel. OMG! There was so much crud. I vacuumed constantly and did water changes every other day. If you are concerned with the looks, then thin it out. For my show tank in the living room, I have gravel but one layer deep where you can still see the glass bottom in some places but still has a nice look. That way you can easier get to the waste that is created. Your scavengers may eat the food but where do you think all the discus and cory waste goes? Yep, deep in the rocks, gunks up and you can never get it all. With thin layer, you can move it around and clean better. JMO.
Simply put,,,, Discus are more dependant on clean and particular water parameters. They get sick easier! Gravel collects all the bad things that make them sick. Clean, clean, clean, wc, wc, is just good prevention and less heart ache (i think you mentioned pulling your hair out?)LOL
Looks are a human thing, there is many here who agree and dont agree but discus enjoy clean and healthy environment and they are happy. They dont care either way if they have cool looking things in their tank.
Bare bottom or close is the way to go and pot the plants because they do keep the water clean also, Good luck! Keep us informed and Marie is right,,, you wont have to wait long for a response here because there is usually someone on here that can help out or at least calm you down until reinforcements show up. Mike

[tongareefer34]

first off,color of some turqs are kinda dull till they grow or are fed well. most fish you shouldnt have with discus,but cory cats,,1 or 2 per 55 gal is ok.they need things to hide behind,removing is a mistake to me. feed frozen blood worms,,discus are pickers,,remove fish that take there food from them. is tank at 82 to 86 f ? it should be. is your ph stable,and between 6.6 and 7.0?
is water soft to moderately soft>? any nitrate or other poisions highly stress discus so does bright light. black worms might also stimulate feeding. hope any of this helps,,,Roger

[Ryan]

The pH and hardness do not have to be low. My discus were in water with a pH of 7.6 - 7.8 and a hardness of 200 - 250ppm and they were fine. Signs of spawning and everything.

The fish in my avatar is a turquoise x heckel, but the color came from the turquoise. It's safe to say that your fish are probably turquoise or red turquoise.

Most people don't keep gravel because it's hard to keep clean. You may think that with a clean-up crew and frequent vacuumings that it's clean, but I bet you'd be surprised. Any food or waste that goes unnoticed in your gravel will start to break down and deteriorate your water quality. Discus are very demanding when it comes to water quality -- it's probably the most important aspect of keeping happy, healthy discus. So a breakdown in water quality usually results in stress to your fish, which results in illness and general problems.

I do not keep hiding places in my discus tanks -- none of them ever have a reason to hide. They always greet me and are happy to see me because they know I drop in treats when I walk by.

Ryan

[traco]

Having the higher temps that discus, and specially discus babies, will also help the bacteria proliferate. You think the tank is clean until you wipe down the airline hoses or heater cord and get yellow/brownish stuff on your paper towel, yuck!! Like Mike said, even with a thin layer of gravel, things still build up but you can move the gravel around while cleaning the bottom of the tank and move it back into place. Try that maybe and take readings of your nitrate to see if it stays stable, if it starts climbing, then you need to step up with the cleaning.

I also started with gravel and eventually sucked it all out. The discus are kind of like the canaries in the coal mines, they will tell you whether they are happy or not with their living quarters. It doesn't take long for you to figure out their personalities and if they look happy or healthy.

A lot of work but it's worth it! Keep reading all the info here, a ton of good information. Plus this forum has great people here also!:D

[chago09]

thanks everyone you guys are awesome. And yes my water parems are good, I've been a fish keeper many years so I knew to do some research on discus before buying them. My temp is 87 and all my parems are perfect.
thanks a lot everyone and I can't wait to see these Kings grow. There gonna have to tough it out for one year in the 35 and then I'm upgrading big time when I move into my new house next christmas. They should be fine right?? 3 discus and 3 cories. Cories don't take up much space nor do they waste. I figured the discus would not even be full grown by then cause I read they grow rather slowly. Is this ture?

[pcsb23]

growth rates depend on many things, if water params (there we go again, we don't keep discus they just live in the water we look after!!!) are right and the feeding schedule right and the food balance right they'll grow from 1" to 3" in but a few months, typically fry go from 1/4" or so to 2" in about three months in ideal conditions. once they seem to reach 3" or so they will slow down a bit.

They should be fine though in your 35gal with regular frequent water changes, and whilst they are growing out it probably is best to go bare bottomed at first (the tank not you....).

When you get your new tank keep the 35gal for quarantine/hospital/breeding, then the fun really begins...

HT and enjoy...
Paul.

[Timbo]

as Ryan said, actual ph and hardness are unimportant; stability is the important thing. many of us keep their fish in 7.5+ ph, and relatively hard water with thriving, growing fish...stability combined with good water changes and quality feed are key. your temp seems fine

because i dont like the look of a bb for my show tank either, i also just use a skim of white playsand on the bottom (like a previous poster) the white allows the ditritus to show for efficient removal, and there's not enuf of it for the crap to settle into to pollute.

good luck and enjoy your discus!
Tim

[pcsb23]

Another thought on this, hungy fish will feed, so don't feed them for a day, on day two feed them mid afernoon once and they hopefully will start to eat as they'll be ready for a meal. Then back to a normal schedule, also find out what the breedr/lfs fed them and start wit that, alternating with what you want to feed em. Don't give up discus are the best there is!!

Paul.

[chago09]

ok now another thing is someone said earlier it is possible for me to remove the gravel now. How? How can I do it without giving all the fish a heart attack and without removing all the water cause then i will need to cycle all over again. I can't put them in my other tank because they will al become a very very very expensive snack for my Oscar:mad: I was thinking maybe putting them in a bucket or something or are they better off in there? and please someone tell me what is the best technique for removing gravol? And like someone said earlier that a thin layer of sand is best. Well what if i put like one 25 pund bag of sand would that be better or less sand? cause if i remove all and make it a bare bottom then what will happen to my cories?

[candyl70]

Hi and welcome to Simply!!

I used to have gravel in my 36 gallon, and had to remove it when they became sick. What I did was take everyone out and put them into a bucket with some tank water. Then i added an airstone and a heater.
I went back to the tank and drained all the water (by the way, the good bacteria is in your filter, not the water :) ) and then started scooping out all the gravel. Once i got out all the gravel i added a little bit of water, drained it and wipped the tank down with paper towels. Then i added fresh clean, dechlorinated water, the same temp. that it was at before, then added the fish back. I had 2 cories in my tank. As long as they have a piece of driftwood or a rock to hide under, they seem to do fine.

If you decide to go BB let us know how it goes! Good luck!!


Candy

[White Worm]

YEP, thats what I did Candy, :thumbsup: Good advice. Mike

[Bainbridge Mike]

I have removed gravel from an established aquarium (without removing the fish). Here is the trick; get a 6 or 8 foot piece of large diameter ( 3/4 to 1 Inch) hose or tubing. Stick one end into the gravel and the other into a bucket. Then start the siphon. You can remove a fair amount of gravel along with the water--without stirring up a bunch of junk. If you do this the next 3 or 4 times you do water changes, you can get just about all the gravel out.

Good luck,

Mike

[traco]

I also just dismantled a 20 gallon with the tubing like Mike said. I put the fish in a bucket with airstone and heater and went to work on the tank. Did not stir up a whole lot and I wasn't even careful.

[Carol_Roberts]

It should only take a few hours to drain the tank and remove the gravel. Be sure to add dechlor when you begin refilling with WARM tap water. Let the filters run for a couple of hours to stabilize CO2 and pH before adding back discus.

Get a good siphon going and a one inch garden hose will suck the gravel right out of the tank. Put it in a flower bed or on a tarp in the yard. I have also used a spaghetti strainer ( colander) to remove the gravel - it won't take long for a 30 gallon. Wipe down the walls, heaters, cords, etc.

[White Worm]

HI Carol,,,, I hear you always talking about wipeing everything down. I didnt understand what could accumulate when we put clean water in constantly but when I emptied my 75g and cleaned everything, there was a slimey film on everything but you couldnt see it with the eye. What is the reason you wipe everything down and what is the frequency? What is the slimey stuff? Do you do it at every WC?

[candyl70]

Awww .. Mike you are too sweet!!

The slimey stuff that we can't see I believe is the slime coat from the fish. The reason for wiping it down, if I am remembering this right is that bacteria can feed off the slime and colonize on it. I wipe my tank down everyother water change. And if i miss a spot i can see it... it looks like a whiteish film.
Gross huh??

Candy

p.s. Mike sorry to hear about your babies,
what are you going to do now?

[White Worm]

NO KIDDING??? That is so cool, I have heard everyone talk about their slime coat and extra slime but I never thought it accumulated on things. I guess I never heard anyone explain it so simply. Very slimey stuff!!! My discus dont even feel that slimey when I pet them.

My babies :( :( :( Thanks for asking and I wish it never happened. It was from my lack of knowledge but it wont happen again.

Good news though. I still have my healthy pair because they were in a seperate tank and 2 semi adults in another tank.

Better news,,, My good friend Kenny is holding some new additions to my family to replace the ones I lost. The tank and everything has been cleaned and it will be ready for them this weekend (I Hope). They are wrapped like a xmas present at santas (I mean kenny's) just waiting for me to open them.

[White Worm]

If I know kenny,,, and the way he is with discus,,,,they are all probably lineing up for him to put a ribbon around each one of them. Very nice guy and some cccccllllllleeeeeeeaaaaaaannnnnnn fish!

[Carol_Roberts]

I wipe the tank and stuff about once a week. It's the same slimy stuff that grows on rocks in the river. If you leave it it gets thicker and covers every surface. Bacteria and pests may feed on it. Cleaning everything means less food for the bad guys.

[candyl70]

Mike,
That is good news indeed!!! Kenny is a really awesome guy, he seems to have a really big heart and a love for these guys.

It's too bad it happened, but you learned from it, and you can share that knowledge when someone else comes along with the same problem;)

You gunna post some pics of those bad boys??


C~

[White Worm]

I already posted pics of my pair and my semi adults, i will get the thread and post here. Kenny is a very nice guy and now a good friend. He is a genuine discus keeper and does have a love for the fish. Thats the way it should be. As soon as I get the new ones, I will post some pics.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=46318

[candyl70]

Thanks Mike!
Gunna check them out now!

[candyl70]

LOL!!!
I am such a twit Mike!! I saw your pics!! Good looking guys!

Sorry for the hi-jack!!!



Candy:D

[Kenny's Discus]

Quote:

"If I know kenny,,, and the way he is with discus,,,,they are all probably lineing up for him to put a ribbon around each one of them."

-LOL Mike no kidding :-) In fact the other day it took me 30 mins just to pick out your best looking 4 juveniles. Here they are (I guarantee they are in perfect shape :-))

[Kenny's Discus]

1 more - they're very rounded and starting to show their true colors...

[Kenny's Discus]

Last one.

--Now Mike please remember to bring RIBBONS as I ran out of them just now for putting one on everyone of my Discus for christmas....lol

Pics of ribbons on my discus will follow soon...(j/k)

Thank you Mike and Candy.

Merry Christmas to everyone here on Simply. Sorry for the hi-jack.

Kenny

[White Worm]

Those are some good looking youngsters kenny. I cant wait to see in person how they have turned out.

[diablocanine]

Get a piece of 1" hose about 4 feet long. Get a siphon going and shove the tube in the substrate. Should be able to remove all the gravel with minimal water loss.

[Timbo]

hey, if it was me, i'd just take out 25% at a time over a period of three weeks minimum. in some systems depending on the amount of outside biological filtration, the gravel can represent a SIGNIFICANT amount of your aerobic bacteria count.

if you have already removed all of it all at once (or even over a matter of hours as a couple of posters here have suggested you do) and you reload your tank with the same amount of fish as it previously held, there's no way your filter can instantly generate the replacement amount of bacteria as you have just removed. keep an eye on your ammonia, nitrite levels...you could be in for quite a swing if you followed the advice to just suck it all out all at once.

be careful of casual advice from any forum...it is usually given with the best of intentions, but....

[Kindredspirit]

Okay, Tim~


Even on a tank his size, removing all the gravel at once could be like un-cycling your tank? I did that....oops! ...on my 35gal with the babies....I did this a long time ago....I didnt have a problem. I didnt do a big water change at the same time tho. Is that why I didnt have a problem? I was just curious, cuz I have never heard any one suggest to remove gravel slowly, a little at a time.....til now~ Good to know there is always more than one way to skin a cat, I suppose....( poor choice of words, sorri)

And, Brat, I do not know about anyone else here at Simply, but I never give casual advice! Of course I really do not give much advice at all....so when I do , I try to make sure of that which I speak...lol!!




Merry Christmas, Timbo!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_16_13.gif




Marie~

[Timbo]

Marie, yes, thats what i was referring to; casual, antidotal advice based on one experience.

..the advice to remove all of the gravel at once was potentially very dangerous depending on his system. He was basically told to remove a large portion of his biological filter

you can get away with it under certain circumstances, again depending on outside filtering capability and w/c's to keep the spikes under control and the condition and hardiness of the fish. but thats a big gamble, not one i would want to take on needlessly with a tankful of Discus.

Merry Christmas to you too Marie! Hope you and yours (discus included:)) enjoy the holidays.

[chago09]

sorry to interupt :angry: LOL jk Umm ya I have another question. I was looking at some of your pix on this site and I noticed some of you have like 15 discus in a 55 gallon. How many could I put in my 35 gallon. I have 3 right now and 3 cories. Is that full enough or could I fit another. also if the 4th one is a different type of dicus, would it still school with the rest?

[Ryan]

You may or may not run into problems with only 3 discus. Discus establish a pecking order or hierarchy. The more fish you have, the less aggression you'll see directed at one fish. With only three fish, you might have one bully who torments the other two, or worse, two bullies that torment one fish. If you start to run into aggression problems, this is probably why.

Discus are discus. The color variety really has nothing to do with their interactions with one another. Regardless of the type of discus it should still become a part of the pecking order and interact normally with all other discus.

Some people do very large water changes daily, meaning they can keep more fish than the suggested amount per tank. However, it's only a good idea to overstock if you plan on doing a lot of maintenance.

About 10 gallons per discus is the general rule of thumb. So 5 - 6 adult discus in a 55 gallon is the suggestion. I would consider upgrading the tank size from 35 gallons if you want to keep more than a few discus.

Ryan

[candyl70]

Timbo,

I had never thought of that before, the gravel having alot of the bacteria. But if there are running filters, for 3 fish, don't you think he would be fine to take out the gravel??

Candy

[chago09]

So if i bought let's say a 20 pound bag of sand would that be better then gravel. Or would that still be to much. also I dont know what to do with my plants. I have a lot of java fern and many other plants and I really dont know what to do with them if I take out the gravol. Just a thin layer of sand will not support the plants properly. plus doesn't your filter suck up the sand? Also won't I suck up sand when I vaccuum?

[White Worm]

Transfer plants to pots

[chago09]

how does that look? also how would my java fern go into pots. I would need a whole tank full of pots lol make my situation worse. LOL I can't throw them out way to much time and money. I was thinking putting a thin layer of sand or gravel so I can keep the plants.

[White Worm]

I am not too experienced with the plant problems but I've seen many BB tanks with potted plants. I cant see your tank so you may have to come up with a compromise. I have also seen some who do just fine with some sand or gravel. Its not impossible, we were just giving you some advice to what would be easier and most times, cleaner for the discus.

[candyl70]

If you do decide to go with sand, be careful and make sure to stir the bottom once in awhile as it compacts and creates an anerobic situation.

When you vaccum, you just sort of put the vaccum above the sand, (not into it like you would gravel) and all the waste and excess food gets sucked up. If you go to the biotopes forum and look there, you can get some good ideas about what to do with your tank.

If you have driftwood, you can attach your Java Fern to it, or to a rock.
Other plants can go in pots.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do!!


Candy

[Carol_Roberts]

Best way to raise juvenile discus is a bare bottom tank.

[chago09]

thanx guys oh and mike my discus look a bit better, I think they were maybe just pissed off about something cause there color has really lightened. The breathing looks like it's still going on but not as bad.

[White Worm]

Glad I could help,,, I think?? What did you do to make them feel better. WC? You may want to add an airstone and see if their breathing gets better. Mike

[Timbo]

Timbo,

I had never thought of that before, the gravel having alot of the bacteria. But if there are running filters, for 3 fish, don't you think he would be fine to take out the gravel??

Candy

hi Candy!

the established filter would help mitigate the spikes, but that filter only has the bacteria alive in it that the food source (ammonia) allows. ie -the aerobic bacteria that was removed with the gravel was ALSO using available ammonia, therefore the population in the filter would not have the immediate capability to handle that same load again once the gravel (along with its bacter) was removed. The ammonia and nitrite spikes will occur until the filter bacteria can up-populate to handle the larger amount of ammonia/nitrite now available to it..sometimes this can take weeks, but it certainly takes more than hours.

also, as i said previously, you can get away with it sometimes, depending on the percentage reliance of the system upon the bacteria in the gravel, the amount of wc's, the hardiness of the fish, etc., but its asking for trouble unnecessarily. gradually removing the gravel over a period of a couple weeks usually will allow the remaining filter to catch up in its ability to handle 100% of the load. :)

Tim

[Carol_Roberts]

. . . so you just do a little bigger water changes a little more often for a couple of days until the filterbed catches up. Better to get rid of the gravel with the fish out of the tank so you don't stir up a bunch of mulm in the tank with the discus. Pull every thing out, wipe down the tank and do enough watrer changes to keep ammonia at zero.

[chago09]

should I remove carbon from my filter?? I was told that the discus really don't like the carbon and it really is not beneficial at all? what you all suggest?

[White Worm]

I have been told that carbon not only removes meds when you need it to but if you use carbon all the time, it removes some of the good nutrients from the water the discus need to stay healthy. Use filter sponge or floss.

[diablocanine]

hey, if it was me, i'd just take out 25% at a time over a period of three weeks minimum. in some systems depending on the amount of outside biological filtration, the gravel can represent a SIGNIFICANT amount of your aerobic bacteria count.

if you have already removed all of it all at once (or even over a matter of hours as a couple of posters here have suggested you do) and you reload your tank with the same amount of fish as it previously held, there's no way your filter can instantly generate the replacement amount of bacteria as you have just removed. keep an eye on your ammonia, nitrite levels...you could be in for quite a swing if you followed the advice to just suck it all out all at once.

be careful of casual advice from any forum...it is usually given with the best of intentions, but....

I've removed all the substrate from dozens of tanks and never experienced problems. Additionally, I do not recommend doing something if I haven't personally had success with it.

[candyl70]

Same here.
I had to remove my gravel from my tanks, and i did just what i suggested.
I never had any problems.

[Kindredspirit]

Me too~ I removed all the gravel from my 35gal, while the fish were in it....never had a problem~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_108.gif



Marie~