advice needed

[Dr-Manic]

after a 15 year break from fish keeping I have a 300 litre tank . It came with an undergravel filter and a eheim ecco canister suitable for 35 imperial gallons. I have 6 young discus 20 neons 2 crabs 2 plecs and 2 angels. The nitrate levels in the tank keep rising between 100 and 250 and the fish all show odd behavior. for the past week i have changed 10% of the water daily and i have just purchased a canister capable of clearing 200 - 450 litres.


I have worked out the gravel in my tank is actually pea shingle and far to large to be effective and when the food falls on it the fish cant get at it. Once the new filter is established I want to remove the power heads gravel and undergravel plates what is the best substrate to replace it with? any other yips gratefully accepted


sean

[Ardan]

Hi,
I would definately change more water each day. Up to 50% per day.

I would also remove all gravel a little at a time by siphoning.
i would not have an under gravel filter, but only filters with just sponges in them.
Bare bottom, no gravel is easier to clean.
Nitrate levels are way too high! what is the nitrate level in your tap water?

hth
Ardan

[lkleung007]

Hi Sean,

Ardan gave you great advice. I would increase your water changes...this will bring down the nitrate level and your discus will thank you. How are the other parameters...ammonia, nitrite, pH, etc??

HTH, Lester

[Dr-Manic]

amonia 0 nitrite 0 ph 6.8. when i kept fish before i only changed the water once a week and it was considered bad to do more than this:confused: yet here everyone recomends large water changes:confused: The tapwater here is hard the ph is 6.8-7 the nitrate reads 25 .


so what is the best way to prepare the water and add it without stressing the fish? at the momment i treat the water tetra aquasafe. and then place a 2 gallon bucket on the lid and syphon the water through a piece of airline.
A 50% change will take a long time like this!!

[lkleung007]

Hi Sean,

In keeping Discus, it is vital to keep nitrates as low as possible. My discus like their 50% WC 3-4 times a week. It certainly is not bad for them and is essential for healthy Discus. In order to do such a large WC, you need to have a storage tank to age and heat the water overnight. As long as the water used for the WC has similar temperature and pH, then the Discus should do fine. Also, be sure to treat for chlorine and chloramine prior to using the water for your WC. Now how often to change the water depends on the stocking density in the tank and your feeding schedule. For instance, I currently run 12 tanks...I will have about 500 gallons for aged water ready to be used. Remember, your Discus will tell you how often to do WC by their behavior.

HTH, Lester

[Ardan]

You can dump buckets of water in if at same temp, same ph, no chloramine, no chlorine.
You can even pump it in with a sump pump. I have.:) fast and the discus get used to it.

hth
Ardan

[Cosmo]

Sean,

I'm unfamiliar with the additive you're using, but try and find one that specifies on the label that it neutralizes nitrates... even 25 is in the high range for Discus. The undergravel filter (or UGF as well call them here) is essentially a nitrate production plant in that all the uneaten food, feces, etc collects under the bottom plates and can't be removed... ulitmately you end up with a sludge that pumps out nitrates.

Many of us use pumps to refill our tanks after WCs.. a storage bin to age the water is definately preferable if you can find room for one. Heat the water, add your chlorine/chloramine remove (and nitrate neutralizer) and aerate the water all in the storage bin - then when you pump it into your tank the ph is stable and the water is heated to the same temp as the tank water. Large WCs are only harmful if the water still contains chlorine/chloramines or ammonia, or, is significantly hotter or colder than the water in the tank. Otherwise, it's the best thing you can do for the fish.

As far as the substrate - I don't use any either. It's amazing how attractively you can arrange a bare bottom tank with driftwood, rocks, or even potted plants. Makes it a snap to clean and keeps detritus down to a bare minimum = higher quality water for your fish to live in.

Make sure you put pre-filter sponges on your syhpon tubes and clean them regularly - spraybars are the best way to output a cannister as it increases surface turbulence at the same time it decreases water turbulence in the tank.. surface turbulance is necessary to insure adequate gas exchange.

As you know, your eheim is drastically short of acceptable size for that size tank... I'd recommend a 2217.

As Ardan said, syphon the gravel out a little bit at a time, don't remove it all at once cause it'll throw your bio all out of whack. I've found a 1 inch clear flexible pvc tube with a solid 1in tube (like the lift tubes on your UGF) stuck in one end make for a great vaccuum for this purpose... remove it gradually then remove the fish from the tank before you pull up the UGF plates cause it's gonna be a mess. Be a good time to empty the tank and do a good cleaning before putting the fish back in.

Using a rubbermaid plastic trash can as a temporary home for the fish, you can keep your cannister alive during the process by putting a bulkhead on the side of the trash can, as close to the bottom as you can get it, and then hooking up the intake of the cannister to it... run the output hose through a 1/2 inch hole near the top and attach your spraybar inside.. add a heater and airstone and both the fish and the bacteria will do fine while you do your housework. I'd suggest you cycle your new filter completely before doing this though or you'll run into problems.

hth

Jim

[Dr-Manic]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will let you know how i get on

[Dissident]

amonia 0 nitrite 0 ph 6.8. when i kept fish before i only changed the water once a week and it was considered bad to do more than this:confused: yet here everyone recomends large water changes:confused: The tapwater here is hard the ph is 6.8-7 the nitrate reads 25 .


From the old days waterchanges were not that important. 'Old water' was considered to be good, hence small infrequent waterchanges. But as science and the hobby progressed it became necessary to remove elements from the tanks to keep flora & fauna happy and healthy to avoid 'old tank syndrome'.

Depending on what yuo keep the amount and frequance of wanter changes varries.
In my planted tanks W/out discus I do at least 1 50% WC a week.
In my girlfriend's heavily stocked guppy tanks I will do 2 50% WC a week (sometimes more).
In my discus planted tank I will do 2x50% and 2x25% a week (usually more).

[Dr-Manic]

well ive changed 10 imperial gallons a day so far the fish are happier the nitrate is now 10. I am now trying to find a cheap way of prepping my water. my idea is to fill a water container and attach my smaller canister filled with active carbon to treat the water. the chemical i use to prpare the water at the momment would work out very expensive if i am to continue with daily changes