Reefer goes discus! Please help me id.

[johara]

Hi all. I'm so glad to have found this forum, and my discus are even happier I'm sure. I have decades of fish experience, but only brief and sad experiences with discus in the past and put most of my fish energy into reefing.

About two months ago the discus bug bit again and I added some discus to my community planted tank. I had no intention to breed, just have always loved the majesty of discus. I'm embarassed to say I don't even remember the names of the strains. They came from Herman at Fairy Lake Discus in SF. There are two about 5" discus that are a cross he made between something white and something tangerine. (Hangs her head in shame :confused: ) I know enough now from reading to know there is some pigeon blood in there as one has some dark peppering. The third one is younger and blue, and I'm clueless about strain. I'll see if I can figure out how to post pictures, and maybe someone can help me out!

The reason for my sudden interest in knowing is that the two white ones spawned yesterday. I'm still not 100% sure it isn't two females as I can't see more than just a tiny tip of a breeding tube on the non egg layer. A few eggs went white overnight, the rest are fine. The pair is doing a moderate amount of squabbling but so far no eating of eggs.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/thepair.jpg
Here's the pair, blurry but the color is fairly accurate

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/femaleandeggs.jpg
the female and eggs (on my pH meter!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/presumedmale.jpg
and the presumed male

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/blue.jpg
This is the young blue one - Any guesses?

Hope that's not too many pictures. I have some water questions I couldn't figure out from search, but I'll post that separately. BTW I know the spawn is unlikely to survive in the community tank and will set up a breeder if it turns out they really are a pair.

Thanks for any help!

[jaydoc]

The "pair" are white butterflies, a pigeon blood based fish. The other looks to me like a red turqoise. (Notice the slightly red base color)

[johara]

Thanks Cary. I figured red turq was likely, but don't know enough to say for sure. What is the difference between white pigeon blood and white buttefly? Does the peppering on the male make it a white pb or do butterflies have that too? Does butterfly refer to fin shape or some other attribute?

While folks are commenting, does the small red turq look stunted? I've spent hours reading this site and now am wondering. It did take several weeks before it would eat as I was trying to wean it off the live tubifex it was raised on.

[Timbo]

does the small red turq look stunted?

judging by the body shape and size of the eye vs the body size, it does appear to be a lil stunted. feed'em lots, good looking otherwise except for the slightly ragged fins, but that will come back quickly

have fun and cheers!

*edit* just noticed, there appears to be some pitting around face/mouth area...is there some there or is it just the photo?

[johara]

You are right. There is some shallow very symmetric pitting noticeable when you look head on at the fish. I can try and get a pic. Being new to discus, I assumed since it was so symmetric and was there when I got the fish and hasn't changed that it was something normal. But it's not on the other two. The fish eats well now and has normal feces. Should I be worried? Or more to the point, should I do something?

Here's the best I could do for pics - pretty blurry but hope it helps some.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/headpitting2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Johara/Discus/headpitting4.jpg

[April]

it could be diet. .yes it looks like it has pitting. the ragged fins also..i would try add some red wigglers chopped up or somethin. it may have been complimised before you got it. do you have carbon in your filters? its been suggested that carbon can also cause that.
the butterfly name is just a name. its a white pigeon. they have also been called white diamonds..etc. they are quite nice. just let them breed a few times..see if the eggs get darker. sometimes the male takes longer to mature than the female. so no hurry..
do as many wcs as possible..might get that little guy growing.
welcome to simplydiscus . :wave: once you get hooked on discus..theres no going back. lol.

[Westie]

Hooray to you from briney Hayward! You have a 3rd very typical Bay Area Blue Discus. I have three that look the same. About 2" huh? Do not be suprised if you first time parents gobble up their fry. Its expectable once or twice.

[johara]

Thanks again all for the responses. Which of course generated more questions...

April: where do I get red wigglers? Is that different than blood worms?

East Bay folks - are you adding anything to the water to raise GH? It measures 0 for me and I understand young discus need more minerals to grow properly. I don't know if that has anything to do with the pitting. That fish actually is the most ravenous eater at all, I had not suspected illness other than the pitting, so I wonder if it is something environmental rather than infectious. The other two show no signs of pitting.

Is the Bay Area Discus group still alive? Do they have a website or is there a meeting coming up? I very much enjoy the Bay Area Reefer community, meeting some local discus enthusiasts would be great!

I do run carbon in the filters - is the consensus that it should not be used in discus tanks? With stepped up water changes I imagine it's not necessary, I mostly use it out of habit.

btw the eggs are slowly disappearing, still had 15 or 20 this morning. I'm hoping they last long enough to see if they hatch, just to confirm that I have a fertile male.

Thanks for all your input and patience!

[White Worm]

Welcome.....I'm up north a little (vacaville) you are in a prime location for discus hobby. As soon as BAD has another get together, they will probably post here like they did back in oct 05. Keep a look out and enjoy your discus. Mike

[CliffsDiscus]

Johara,
The water in East Bay (Oakland) has been lowering their K's, since Feb.2005.

The pitting on the forehead might be from leaving a carbon in the filter, Hole in the Head, diet and water quality(waterchanges).

For information on BAD Meeting you can contact BayAreaDiscus@hotmail.com


Cliff

[Jarrod]

Thanks again all for the responses. Which of course generated more questions...

April: where do I get red wigglers? Is that different than blood worms?

East Bay folks - are you adding anything to the water to raise GH? It measures 0 for me and I understand young discus need more minerals to grow properly. I don't know if that has anything to do with the pitting. That fish actually is the most ravenous eater at all, I had not suspected illness other than the pitting, so I wonder if it is something environmental rather than infectious. The other two show no signs of pitting.

Is the Bay Area Discus group still alive? Do they have a website or is there a meeting coming up? I very much enjoy the Bay Area Reefer community, meeting some local discus enthusiasts would be great!

I do run carbon in the filters - is the consensus that it should not be used in discus tanks? With stepped up water changes I imagine it's not necessary, I mostly use it out of habit.

btw the eggs are slowly disappearing, still had 15 or 20 this morning. I'm hoping they last long enough to see if they hatch, just to confirm that I have a fertile male.

Thanks for all your input and patience!

Johara...red wigglers are nothing more than the worms most sporting goods stores sell as fish bait for fishing...good fish food...to make sure they aren't carrying any bad stuff in them you can put them in shredded newpapers or oatmeal (before cooking of course) and moisten it pretty well...or put them in soil that is from your garden as long as it has no pesticides and stuff in it..rinse them in clear waterthem set in the papers or oatmeal for a week or two and that will clean them out internally..earthworms are one of the most nutritious foods for fish..