WATER SYSTEM

[AmazonRainbows]

Hi folks,

Since last fews weeks I had some badluck with tap water and water conditionner. I'm also a little lazy and would prefer monitor my tank more then doing the actual work for water change. I have done some researches on this site and here is a picture of a water system I want to implant on my next tank (150Gal.) Please feel free to tell me what you think about my system, the pro and con and surely some things I didn't think about. I will move from my 80Gal to a 150 Gal. in the next fews weeks and I will post picture about my own installation to share with all of you.

Here is how I think this system will work.

First the water pressure from TAP WATER is always on unless the main valve is close.

A RO/DI system is represent by the 4 stages filters.
- First stage is a 5 Micro sedimen filter
- Second stage is a 1 Micro Carbon/Chlore filter
- Third stage is a TFC cartridge
- Fourth stage is a DI cartridge

Right after the second stage I have Dechlorined water that still contain amonia, nitrite and nitrate. This water is pass in a two valve system. The drop water valve is adjust accordingly with the Pure water drop Valve. Thoses valves are adjust to fix the % of daily water change and set roughtly the tank PH. You can guest that both valve are always open and will let flow a very small amount of water.

I also want to use a water controler system. Right now I have found a small controler made by neptune system but I will ask forum members what controler are they using.
The controleur gage the tank water TDS level. According to the reading it can open the dechlorined water line or the pure water line. This will be use to adjust PH in at a fine level. Those valves are always close except when the controleur need to ajdust PH in the tank.

The water coming from those two line will be pull by both MSF by a syphon effect. This is why both line are going in the filter intake line

The chemical filter will remove the amonia part remaining in the dechlorined water. I will use one full stage (basket) for amonia remover. This will leave the second MSF working almost for nitrite only.

I did not include the anti syphon part to simplify the schema but I will put some in the strategique area.

[pcsb23]

Ok,

Couple of observations.

You specify a 1micron carbon, firstly not sure you can get these and secondly the 5 micron will be better as they are definitely readily available and won't clog, your prefilter is 5 micron!

Also I really wouldn't bother with a DI unit, its overkill in my view and can lead to probs if the resins gets fully charged as it can dump nasties back in the tank.

Do you have ammonia and nitrite in your tap water?? If you intend to run zeolite or similar then you will need a very large wallet as it gets used up pretty quick. If the source water does have NO3 and NO2 then I would have a hlding tank with a bio filter running if you want to use a continuous system.

Personally I don't like drip fed or continuous systems, too complicated and too many places to go wrong, but thats just my view.

One last question how are intending on adjusting your ph and why?? (ok that was 2 questions)

[Cosmo]

First thought.. maybe I'm reading the diagram wrong, but it looks like you're feeding the RO back in before the membrane? Whether I'm right or wrong, you'll need to make sure both feed lines that go before the membrane are of equal pressure or one won't feed. Put checkvalves in the lines to make sure the water doesn't get pushed backwards.

Second.. agree with Paul on the DI. Not so much out of concern of leaching since the color change will clue you on that, but because it gets pretty expensive replacing the resins. I know cause I used to do it too. 0 ppm product water was cool, but the fish are doing just fine with the product water at 7 or 8.

Would think you'd be better off putting more prefilters before the membrane rather than after too.. keep your membrane cleaner (last longer) and any ammonia left over can be handled with Prime. I have a 15 mic sediment cartridge before the pump, a 10 mic sediment after the pump, and then a 10 mic and 1 mic carbon before the membrane.. works pretty well for me.

Don't know about the controller... don't have one :(

Looks pretty complicated to me too :D Looks pretty cool though so keep us posted on how it works out

Jim

[AmazonRainbows]

Thank's for the reply pcb and cosmo.

First you are right about the DI and I will discard it. Looking at available RO system that fit's my need I found the ESKIMO unit at airwaterice.com

http://www.airwaterice.com/c=ozY7JaEkF2TLxT2yBXJjmsaGK/product/1ESKIMO

This unit fit's right for me cause I'm up north with 44F cold water right now and we are not freezing. I'm planing to do 25-75% WC a day and I figure out I will need a lot of RO water. RO system are 50% less efficient at 40F. so the best I can get with a 200GPD will be a 100GPD witch lead to only 66% WC if I use only RO water on my 150Gal tank. The unit with 200GPD will burn very quick the DI cartridge and my wallet.

For the filter the unit is sold with a sediment filter at first stage, a 5 micron carbon filter at second stage and a 1 micron carbon filter at the third stage. I will use this output as the tap water source. A six pack (2 of each) replacement is sold for 49$ witch look like a good price to me.

My tank will be equiped with 3 filters, 2 bio and 1 mech/chemical. The chemical will take care of amonia witch sould be very little cause my tap water is treat with only 1PPM chlore no amonia (SO it's not chloramine). The chemical will have one full stage of amonia remover from marineland (White Diamond) and will take care of the remening amonia if any. If you look carefully you will see the tap water source for the tank is going right in the mec/chem filter input after the carbon filter.

Cosmo, there is no feeding with RO on the TFC cartidge. The diagram show a binary electrical control on the RO/DI base on the reservoir liquid level. And yes I will put some checkvalve at strategique location top make shure anything wrong can happend. I just cut it out to make the schema simple.

Pcb I will control PH cause I read in the disease article/index that low PH can help prevent or block some bacterial disease. Until now I have more then enought experience has I can afford to keep going in Discus WOrld. On the other side the RO/DI part can be use in another tank for breeding. The controller doesn't need to know is driving two tanks, one with temp and another with PH. If I can buy a RO unit without the RO/DI cartridges I will delay this part cause my wallet is now thin like a very sick discus.... But if I can't postpone the expense I will use it!

[AmazonRainbows]

Today I post the first revision. I have done much of the work you saw on the schema. Only the green RO part is missing. I received a bad PH prob so I will do the RO part once I get a new PH probe. Right now this system change between 75 to 100gal a day on a 150 Gal tank. It is working very weel and I have reading close to zero on nitrite and nitrate. Amonia is zero reading. I use a small GE system but I will change for a RO unit this week. I will select the RO capacity according to the PH and TDS I want to go.

[Alight]

What will adjust the pH? RO water by itself will do very little if anything to adjust the pH. Further, if you tap water has significant CO2 in it, the pH of the water after a short time in your tank will be very different than the pH in your water line leading to your tank.

Finally, pH readings are dependent on temperature, and, as you have it diagramed, your water feed will not be heated, so the pH will be different simply by being heated in your tank to the final temperature.

Unless your pH is like mine, 8-9, I wouldn't try to control the pH of the water.

[Dave_S]

After a PH crash I was thinking about a similar idea. My thinking was to dose small amounts of baking soda. A PH controller could power a fish feeder charged with powder, though I would have probably pulsed solenoid valve to charge a mild liquid solution at my pump inlet. This approach may be flawed. I never tested it. Just an idea. I discovered that adding RO right and RO vital at each water change solved my problem.

[raglanroad]

I think you can do much better with the resources once you have a plan as to which parameters you choose to use as triggers.
any pH system would seem to just add buffering, negating your benefits from the drip system. A sinking pH due to waste buildup would be corrected by addition of more highly buffered water. The purpose of the drip system should be, IMO, to keep the water clean. It can only do so by changing water.
pH stability is not really of importance , especially if you have a drip system.
It is without basis that pH shift concerns are mentioned in literature.
There is no piece of scientific evidence to be found anywhere ( by forum members-we have looked) that shows pH shifts, within reason, damage fish.

However, pH monitoring could be useful to indicate dirty water, for a tank using bucket WC.

Why not go straight for clean water, cut the complexity right down to feeding the tank a preset mix of RO/ tap that is the TDS you want to get ?

Just test and note when you have TDS readings above your feed water readings. Up the drip rate if you see TDS building up. Everything should be fine, the pH stable, as following the % daily WC.

I have heard you can up the performance of the RO by coiling the feed line in a container of water and using a tank heater to preheat your RO feed.

Dave

[tony1313]

You may want to add a thermostatic mixing valve before the carbon (hot and cold water in the temp you want out). That will help cut down on the electric bill and wear on you aquarium heaters. I also agree with leaving the ph alone.

Best of luck!
Tony

[AmazonRainbows]

You may want to add a thermostatic mixing valve before the carbon (hot and cold water in the temp you want out). That will help cut down on the electric bill and wear on you aquarium heaters. I also agree with leaving the ph alone.

Best of luck!
Tony

I like your idea Tony. Will look how to do it. I'm also searching a way to age water very fast.

[yeomans]

I added a thermostatic mixing valve into my set up before the water enters the r.o unit, the added feature is nice because you can control the exact water temperature within .5% on my valve, you will on the other hand need to do a little bit of plumbing becasue you'll need both hot and cold lines running into this valve as opposed to just cold water itself. Check out the honeywell valves thats what I am currently using, no complaints at all.