Questions about breeding wild discus

[wild_heckel]

I like to know if it is a lot more difiicult to breed wild discus (excluding heckel)than tank raised discus? The only wild discus I have ever kept is Heckel and I don't think I am going to keep them again. I think they are best left for people that are very experience and has a lot of time.
I like to try brown, blue or green.
Can anyone tell if brown discus is the easiest to breed? Follow by blue and green?
Where I live, wild discus is very expensive US$150-$200 and the availability is not good. So I will shop and wait around for good discus with reasonable price to become available. But in the a meantime I like to know how difficult they are to breed.
Many thanks.

[pcsb23]

In my limited experience, breeding wild to wild is not easy, wild male to domestic female relatively easy, don't know about domestic male to wild female.

[sleonard]

I'd like to know more about this as well. So, anybody here have direct experience or knowledge of breeding wilds? How much to wilds cost compared to domestics here in the US? I assume imported wilds will all be adults, yes/no?

Scott

[architect1]

Wild to dimestic wow thast a color code conflict I would think. a blue dimond with a heckle or blue or green. i wonder what they looked like. I'm sure there a beautiful fish ither way. just the discus word alone makes them beautiful.

[wild_heckel]

I actually like brown discus, I might try to get a couple of wild ones.
I didn't know that they are difficult to breed.

[fishfarm]

I don't think wilds are any harder to breed than domestics. I have wild pairs, Domestic males with wild females and wild males with domestic females. All work just fine together. Wilds tend to be very good parents, unlike some doemestic pairs.

[wild_heckel]

Fishfarm, thank you for the information.
My LFS has two nice wild greens but he wants US$200 each, I think I'll wait a bit longer.

[fishfarm]

Whoa, $200 each, I know the shipping cost to you are high,but I can bring in nice Asian fish and sell them for a lot less than that. I get $40-50 for a green. Ken

[Iggy]

I think it's just a matter of conditioning the pair...once the female is heavy with eggs she should be "in the mood" and the male should catch on to this and then it's "let nature take its course"...of the 6 wilds(3 blue manaus & 3 semi-royal alenquers) I got a few weeks ago, I think I have 2 pairs forming up right now- nothing serious yet, just defending "their" space and the females' bellies filling up slowly.

[Dark Lord]

Hi to eveybody,

I am new here and don reside at your part of the world.

I bred wild to wild before. They are better parent and the fertility rate is better. The difficult part is to convince and condition them into breeding condition. I believe it is a worthwhile effort.

I can get a good pair of wild heckel for USD 100 here...

[fishfarm]

Good deal Iggy, Several people have bred fish from that batch already. (Lee for one)

[tony1313]

I don't think I've ever seen an f2 heckel. Sure would like to see some pictures if anyone has any.

;)

[fishfarm]

You'd need F1 heckels first! LOL I'm working on it, I have 3 pairs, I've had spawns and even wigglers, but haven't gotten beyond that yet. Ken

[tony1313]

I've had spawns and even wigglers, but haven't gotten beyond that yet. Ken

You've gotten further than most and I'm sure it hasn't been easy.

I've seen f1's about dime size posted here but no recent updates, I believe it was Alberto. I have to disagree with anybody that says that "breeding wilds is as easy as domestics". Especially when breeding heckels.


My bad, I missed the (excluding heckels) in the beginning post.

[AmberC]

What are f1 and f2 heckles?

Thanks!
Amber

[nacra99]

I know alberto had a spawn and posted pics here, but i'm not sure what became of that that batch?

Amber, F1 refers to first Generation. If you spawn 2 wilds (F0), the children are called F1 generation. If you spawn the children, i.e two f1's , the grandchildren will be called F2, and so on...

[Jason]

its fairly easy if you follow basic rules ie: conditioning, compatability, oportunity, etc.
The problem is IMPE although they are better parents you will not get anything close to domestics in terms of overall "quality" such as shapes, sizes, or any uniformity amoung the spawns.
It can and will take 8 generations plus to "fix" the type (wildXwild) and they will show inbreeding problems that are hard to fix with outcross unless you have acess to tons of the same fish or simmilar from the same location.

Breeding them for fun is where its at.

[nacra99]

I agree with Jason, the genetic variability in breeding pure wilds is so great that you get all sorts of shapes, sizes, patterns and colors. It is really a bag of surprises.

[AmberC]

Amber, F1 refers to first Generation. If you spawn 2 wilds (F0), the children are called F1 generation. If you spawn the children, i.e two f1's , the grandchildren will be called F2, and so on...


Thank you!!!! :D

Amber

[slime_party]

I have a question to ask. I have seen people with success with wild x domesticated but it seems that the heckel bar will be missing from the F1 of the wild x domesticated. ANy inputs on this?

[discusJim]

I don't think so either.
Used to breed wild browns " Rio Madeira" and "Rio Tefe". I now it is hard find good wild fish for a good price, bin looking my self. This is a fish i bought recently a cross between a coari green( f1 the told me) and a turk. They are really nice big fish. If i can help you let me now. Jim

[slime_party]

I don't think so either.
Used to breed wild browns " Rio Madeira" and "Rio Tefe". I now it is hard find good wild fish for a good price, bin looking my self. This is a fish i bought recently a cross between a coari green( f1 the told me) and a turk. They are really nice big fish. If i can help you let me now. Jim
Beautiful fish you have there. Big and nice:p

[Iggy]

F1 Heckle = first laugh

F2 Heckle = last laugh



*ducks*:D


F1 Heckel - offspring from wild heckel parents

F2 heckel - 2nd generation(grandkids, if you will) from wild parents

[yogi]

I have found it easier to breed domestics than wilds. I have also found it easier to breed a wild male than a wild female. In saying that I have bred wild to wild. Here is the f1 from a wild heckel cross a wild madeira. As you can see the heckel bar was not uniform in all the f1's. Also Iggy's a comedian.

[yogi]

I lost most of the f1's when they were about a year old due to a columnaris or costia type of infection. The surviors will be 3 years old this July, but I have had no luck in getting them to breed.

[yogi]

As much as you want wilds. If you cannot get a good quality fish at a resonable price you will be better off on passing on them at this time. That is a nice fish that discusJIm posted. If domestics are priced better you will be better off. Here is wild rsg, you can see how crossing this with a turq will give you something like discusJim's picture.

[Apistomaster]

I began breeding wild caught aquifasciata at 17(40 years ago). My first 3 pairs were wild caught. Since then I have had mixed wildxT.R and it has been true for me that wild malexT.R. is easier than the reverse. I am concentrating on captive breeding of wild Heckels but they are another level of difficulty when compared with wild aquifasciata. Wild fish can't be expected to produce true to parental forms so in some ways breeding an exceptional domestic with another exceptional wild caught has it's attractions. I have always wanted to raise some of my own F1 Heckels as a personal goal. Always willing to trade experiences with others hoping to breed Heckels as well as other wild types.
Larry Waybright

[mcarbe]

Hello everyone. I have 4 wild greens which I've had for about 3 months. They've been doing really well and looking happy but lately 2 of them have been displaying really dark stress bars. Water is the same as always and otherwise everything looks good. Always hungry, swimming actively and fins well displayed. Has anyone experienced this/ could this be a precursor to spawning?