Sand vs Gravel vs Bare

[Song]

I know that not having anything at the bottom is better for discus... however, if i want to put something.... what would be better??? Sand or Gravel? what are the risks???? Pros and Cons?

[AmberC]

I believe that a lot of people here who cannot stand to have bb tanks, put a very thin layer of sand as substrate, mostly I think, because they like the way the sand looks. I dont think there would be a problem tho with having a THIN layer of gravel either. Having a thin layer allows you to keep the tank cleaner because it can be moved easily and cleaned thuroughly which is the purpose of having a bb tank. To be able to keep it as clean as possible for growing out discus.

HTH!
Amber

[White Worm]

Go with sand. I had gravel bottom and then I went to thin layer of gravel and you would be amazed at how much crap can still collect even though you think you did a good vacuuming (you just cant see it). I am now with BB (not me, the tank). I am looking at going sand though because crap just sits on top and you can vacuum away waste. Plus it adds a nice look to the tank with some driftwood and maybe a few live plants. That is my plan when I get some free time. Mike

[kdazzel]

I am now with BB (not me, the tank).

:D :D :D :D :D
cute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kdazzel

[White Worm]

Thanks, just thought I would clear up any mis-understandings, lol :D

[dandestroy]

I know that not having anything at the bottom is better for discus...

You know this is so wrong. BAre bottom are just more easy for unstable tank that are overcrowded, or for someone that is breeding on multiple tank.

A good planted tank (I mean very planted) with a good sand substrate will be more stable and you wont have to do 50% WC every day, once a week will achieve the same result.

The only problem is having a very well planted tank is an Art that is not as easy as it looks, specially with discus in it. (of course in such tank you need cory and otto as well for cleaning). So it would be more toruble for a breeder that as multiple tank to deal with the planted issue as compare to install a system to clean all the tank faster and do dayli water change.

but if you are going just to put substrate without heavily planting, I would say that san is better than gravel. Easier to clean and does not get polluted as much as gravel. The sand compact and you just need to over above it. And the looks is way much better IMO, speccially with Loire sand

[Song]

thank for the reply dandestroy. that is very helpful. What sand do you recommend for the tank? Also what filter do you use? what's the best for discus, keeping the water clean and lesser maintenance? Yes... eventually i would like to have my tank well planted.... but that will take time.... ;)

[traco]

Juveniles are best with bare bottom, I tried gravel when they were babies and just too dirty. They are a year old now and I started with a skim coat of sand which was easy to keep clean with the python.

I used silica sand (pool filtering sand) and it was way cheaper than buying from the LFS.

[nacra99]

How about going for a BB potted planted tank?
I know there are some pics floating around the forum somewhere...but i can't seem to remember where offhand.

[Timbo]

i, too, started out with a skim of sand...didnt last long tho

[White Worm]

What problems did you have with just thin layer of sand?

[dandestroy]

I think everyone agree here, its either bare bottom, or sand.

gravel is bad...way to much trouble

I like the BB with potted plant, I have seen a few people do that and its combine filtering by plant and ease of maintenance for those who don't want heavily planted tank.

As for what is the best sand, everyone who has tried it at some point, only swear by it: the "sable de Loire"
The looks is awesome, and the grain are tiny but so eavy in the same time. Fish normally love that bottom. the only draw back is that it is a bit expensive, and only come in samll bag.

[BIGFOOT]

I think everyone agree here, its either bare bottom, or sand.

gravel is bad...way to much trouble

I like the BB with potted plant, I have seen a few people do that and its combine filtering by plant and ease of maintenance for those who don't want heavily planted tank.

As for what is the best sand, everyone who has tried it at some point, only swear by it: the "sable de Loire"
The looks is awesome, and the grain are tiny but so eavy in the same time. Fish normally love that bottom. the only draw back is that it is a bit expensive, and only come in samll bag.


Not if you buy pool sand.

[Timbo]

What problems did you have with just thin layer of sand?

none, its just that i ended up suckin it all out over the course of a few wc's and never put it back. the "minimalist" look kinda grew on me and i can see everything (i swear there's slime coat on the bottom) and it was easier to get it all. personal perference (ie- laziness:))

[White Worm]

Ahhhh, I'm with ya. Yep, I see the light layer of slime on the bottom of the tank too. I still want a new look cause I am tired of looking at BB tank with sponge filters. I already took out the breeding surfaces since noone was interested anyways :mad: I think I may try thin layer (1 in) sand with a handful of live plants with some driftwood in the future......If I ever get time that is!

[raglanroad]

Horst Linke, and some other German aquarists say that the slime layer on the bottom is done away with if covered by a thin layer of sand, and trailing fins do not get rot. A book something like "the hygeine aquarium" supposedly details this approach.
My african just LOVED the sand to poke in and spit out and squirt out through their gills.
Colour is affected by substrate also.
Dave

[dandestroy]

Not if you buy pool sand.

when I say $$$ I'm not talking about any sand Bigfoot, I'm talking about the "Loire" sand, pre cleaned

but of course there is other type of sand that would do a great job as well for less $$$

[dandestroy]

for the slime if you get a bunch of cory they will take care of it, or you could grow a layer of plant as well

[adzigogov2001]

1 year BB, 1 year sand, 2 years gravel.

The best and absolutely the right way to keep fish, is gravel 3-5mm granulation 5-10 cm thick.
It acts as a bufer for biological filtration, the dirt that it holds doesn't make any problem(as long as its in the gravel) with monhtly simphoning, no problem what so ever, even when you're overfeeding.
But, also good filtrarion, many plants, and thats the way.
For breeders no.

[crazie.eddie]

1 year BB, 1 year sand, 2 years gravel.

The best and absolutely the right way to keep fish, is gravel 3-5mm granulation 5-10 cm thick.
It acts as a bufer for biological filtration, the dirt that it holds doesn't make any problem(as long as its in the gravel) with monhtly simphoning, no problem what so ever, even when you're overfeeding.
But, also good filtrarion, many plants, and thats the way.
For breeders no.

I agree, but I also think it's personal preference. I would prefer to get sand, but I'm afraid of my equipment. I use canister filters and I like to have the filter intake as close to the bottom as possible. If sand ever got in there, it could ruin the filter. Therefore, I'm going with gravel, but my gravel is smaller than the average gravel, but larger than sand. It's small enough that packs tight like sand, so detritus usually stay on top of it, but heavy enough that it cannot be sucked up using my Python.

[chris allsop]

gravel because in can be vacumed and dirt is removed without lossing sand!!

[wheeler]

just disturb any undergravel filter and you will see just how much dirt and stuff can get trapped in the gravel. if you are worried about syphoning up any sand, just use the pool filter sand as mentioned previously. if you do vacuum some up (quarter ounce) just replace it with 50 lbs for 8 bucks!!! cheap huh.

as for a planted tank you could do it in layers. you could have some gravel, potting soils, laterite etc, under and inch or so of sand. hth!!!

in the end, it just depends on the look that you want!!!

[Riche_guy]

I have gravel tank and I believe the fish reall y don't care. I also have a planted tank. The fish are happy and it doesn't affect them in any way. In the wild plants are found in their environment. I have a quarantine tank that is BB and it is easy to clean, but I find a planted tank much nicer. Planted tanks have different regiments then that found in BB. For example fish droppings in a BB must be regularly cleaned out or it will pollute the tank, but in a planted tank, plants use this as food. It is really personal choice.

[Timbo]

In the wild plants are found in their environment.

in actuality, this is not the case with typical discus environments in the wild to my understanding.

[Riche_guy]

in actuality, this is not the case with typical discus environments in the wild to my understanding.

You believe they have no vegetation in the wild? Amazon Basin is full of vegetation.


for more info on their habititat here is a link that will help: http://fish.mongabay.com/discus.htm

[Mill]

I actually read in a fish book somewhere that you were supposed to replicate the species' natural environment, so I guess I would say gravel or sand rather than bare. Plus, I guess it would make it hard to put plants in the tank (and plants help with nitrate levels, etc).

As for gravel vs. sand, I would go sand as the "stuff" that fish produce (lol :) ) sits on the top and it's easier to clean I find. Also food doesn't get stuck in it - ie. fall inbetween the cracks with gravel. However, it is true that you get buildup of toxins and decay products in the sand but vacuuming up the sand and washing and replacing every few months fixes this

[Timbo]

i stand behind what i said

[Timbo]

I've spoken to several people who have been to the Peruvian, Colombian, and Brazilian Amazon that have done alot of research with the fish from observation to gut contents.

they pretty much all say the same thing, during the dry season they stay away from areas with plants and driftwood, actually its pretty hard to even find any plants growing underwater in a discus habitat. there is sand and a bit of leaf litter on the river bed that they will blow into and sift through looking for food but thats about it.

I agree with Jason. A lot of reports from folks who've actually been to the Amazon and its tributaries say that the natural environment of the discus in the wild is almost completely void of plants. Some driftwood or roots, some sand or leaves on the bottom, and that's it. This is one reason I don't keep discus in a planted tank -- it's not something they're probably familiar with anyway.

we could all be wrong i guess, but i'd suspect not

[Riche_guy]

Well that is another case in point. Most Discus now are aquarium bred. Never seen the Amazon. Neither have most of their owners. So how you decorate the tank is a matter of choice. They will do well in both planted or not. Gravel or sand is not an issue that Discus themselves will gather to Discuss. Again this is a personal choice. I have gravel so my question is to those that have sand, is it difficult to vacuum without sucking up sand? Given that sand will be lighter then gravel.

[discussmith]

To completely clean the bottom of my 120 I take out 4, 5 gal. buckets of water using a regular gravel cleaning tube. The sand goes higher up into the tube but very little sand actually makes it out. I get about 5 or 6 table spoons worth in the bottom of the bucket after removing 20 gals. of water. I leave it in the bucket and the next time before I clean the bottom I just dump it back into the tank. I bought a bag of sand for replacing what I thought I would lose doing bottom cleaning and I have yet to open it. The tube I use is about 22" long and I think this helps as a shorter tube could pull the sand up to where the hose attaches where the current strength would pull the sand out.

[Elcid]

Please read this thread:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=40596

HTH,
Sandeep