Blue Rams

[BIGFOOT]

I have doing some research on these fish. I don't wish to keep them in the same tank as my Discus. I do want to try my hand at breeding them.


What I need to know is :

Where is the best place to get some? (not the lfs I hope)
Is their life span truely 1 to 3 years?
Does ph matter or is it a water hardness issue?

[AmberC]

There are breeders you could get them from. I think there are a few people here that breed them. I usually just get some from the lfs myself.

Yes.. life span is 1-3 yrs.

Rams are pretty sensitive little fishies. They like soft water and lower pH and you'd probably get better breeding with these parameters but like any fish, they can adapt to live in a different pH and if the water is too hard, eggs probably wont hatch, but there are things you can do about this too.

Amber

[lhforbes12]

Brian,
I got some very nice ones off of AquaBid. Hardness and pH both matter if you want to breed them, conditions need to be pretty much the same as for breeding discus. They are not at all difficult to get to breed but are often difficult to raise the young. They lay eggs on a flat surface, or dig a pit in the substrate (this is where mine prefer to lay their eggs, but my substrate is SM so it's easy for them to move it). BBS will sometimes work as a first food, if not use infusoria. The parents can either be typical cichlids, or more often, terrible parents.

[BIGFOOT]

What ya know the lfs here sells them butt the price steep at 9.98 a piece. Dont think Ill be buying there.

[AmberC]

What ya know the lfs here sells them butt the price steep at 9.98 a piece. Dont think Ill be buying there.

Generally at an lfs they are about that price. It depends on the lfs. I dont normally see them for less than 8.

Amber

[BIGFOOT]

That is what I was expecting was 6 to 8 dollars.

[mickeyG]

I second all the info about kh and pH. I have paid $9 for blue microphageous ramerzi (blue rams) and $15 for the yellows. These were about as nice as I have seen. Got all from the lfs. But I kept having problems with bloat and eventually swim bladder. I did not know about salt and don't know if that would have helped.

Michael

http://www.morningglorystudio.com/50g/forums/rams2.jpg

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Brian ~

I love your Rams! I have German Blue Rams ~ they came from Kenny who is also a member here on Sd ~ I am not sure if he ships or what but he goes by Loverboy here ~

And if you go to Tankmates Sec I have a thread in which Kenny posted some of his as well as the parents I think ....to these ~


hth~

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[AmberC]

I second all the info about kh and pH. I have paid $9 for blue microphageous ramerzi (blue rams) and $15 for the yellows. These were about as nice as I have seen. Got all from the lfs. But I kept having problems with bloat and eventually swim bladder. I did not know about salt and don't know if that would have helped.

Michael

http://www.morningglorystudio.com/50g/forums/rams2.jpg

I have never had that problem before but recently I bought 1m - 2f gold rams and two of them (1m-1f) both died after getting really bloated. I tried epsom and prazi.. nothing helped. Did not have a chance to try something for bacterial. These were bought at an lfs. Odd.... :(

Amber

[BIGFOOT]

Alright,alright all ready you are makeing me jealous big time.


I WANT SOME RAMS. WA WA WA WA !!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh nice rams by the way.

[lhforbes12]

Ahem! That's actually Mikrogeophagus ramirezi <hiding>

[BIGFOOT]

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i270/Bigfoot_158/Rams/IMG_6860Small.jpg




These are the ones I want. I would like to get as wild caught or f-0. If possible does any one where to get them?

[poconogal]

Rams are also very sensitive to Nitrate. My LFS guy insists that they are harder to keep than Discus. I think they are equally as demanding of water quality.
Connie

[AmberC]

Ahem! That's actually Mikrogeophagus ramirezi <hiding>

Both spellings .. although Mikey spelled it way wrong lol... but both miKro and miCro are accepted. Its all personal preference. Its the same with Betta. I spell it Betta which is "correct" imo.. but beta is also accepted. :)

Amber

[Clay]

Rams are also very sensitive to Nitrate. My LFS guy insists that they are harder to keep than Discus. I think they are equally as demanding of water quality.
Connie
With my experience with rams, discus are more forgiving about water quality. And I agree on the fact of them being harder to keep.

And whoever said up ther ethat they want F0's, they'll probably be paying a pretty penney or 2 for them...

[BIGFOOT]

With my experience with rams, discus are more forgiving about water quality. And I agree on the fact of them being harder to keep.

And whoever said up ther ethat they want F0's, they'll probably be paying a pretty penney or 2 for them...


I aint Scared!!!!!!!!



Just kidding.

[Kenny's Discus]

Hi Brian - just a thought...contact Al. (brewmaster15, owner of SD here) I'm not sure if he's selling them but he has the type of rams that you're looking for. And I think he does shipping also...

hth,
Kenny

[mickeyG]

spelingg - I have enuff troble just feading them!lol

[BIGFOOT]

spelingg - I have enuff troble just feading them!lol



Why?

[mickeyG]

Trying to be funny - thats all - guess I'll need to work on it!

No problems feeding -

[BIGFOOT]

I guess I didnt read it close enough now I get it. lol

[Mill]

We have both Blue and Golden Rams! They are very cute, especially the Blue Rams, as the male and female are the perfect married couple and hardly ever attack each other. Anyway, we have tried breeding Rams, and didn't have much success with the fish raising the eggs so we hand raise them ourselves now. This is how we go about breeding and raising them...

The 4 steps of Breeding & Raising Rams:
1) Getting Rams to breed
We found the best thing is a large water change ~20% and some substrate cleaning and disturbance. They seem to like a fresh bit of sand to dig in. We keep our pH at 6.6 and our hardness at < 3 dGH. To do this, when we add new water to the tank we filter the tap water through 2 water softening pillows. This is slow but it makes tap water very soft and it saves the pillow from getting clogged with tank debris and growing bacteria. We add ~ 1 dessert spoon of aquarium salt per 10L and 1/4 tsp of discus buffer and 1/8th tsp of "pH down" per 10L. Also, dechlorinator, etc is added.

2) Removing eggs from tank
The Rams make a little ditch and lay their eggs in the sand. We scoop the eggs off the sand right after they have laid them. Their mating lasts only ~2hrs. We scoop the eggs out with a large tablespoon. The eggs are put into distilled or demineralized water in a 1L plastic container with an airstone. (Nb. some Rams are good parents so you might want to leave the eggs the first time they lay. If you do this, leave a light on in the room so there is some light on in the tank. This should help the Rams defend the eggs)

3) Getting the eggs to hatch
In the 1L container add 0.125ml of Multicure (malachite green, meth blue & acraflavine). Re-dose every 12 hrs until fish are swimming around. This works a treat! :)

4) Raising your Rams
The egg sac will last for about 4-5 days. Once the Rams are gathering around the surface, it's probably time to start feeding them. We feed our Rams with green water, liquid fry food and hard boiled egg yolk (crushed). Use very dilute only, can drop solution into the crowd of fry. You can also paint the edges of their container with the egg yolk solution and let it dry, then fill up with water so the fry can eat the crusted yolk. Make sure you change their water every 12 hrs but be sure to use the same kind of water that you started with.

As they get bigger, move on to other foods like micro wormand baby brine shrimp.

Hope this helps!

[BIGFOOT]

Thanks for the info Mill this helps alot. Now I just need some fish. lol

[Mill]

No probs..good luck with finding some Rams! Are they really that rare over there? They are quite common here in Australia (or at least Brisbane) and can be found in almost any fish shop..

[Ryan]

I've always had good luck with rams. I think the key is stable water conditions (sound familiar?). My gold rams always seemed a bit more sensitive, but it could have also been the source (mine came from an LFS). I had some wild blues for a while that were fun, they spawned multiple times but I never raised the fry.

I've had a lot of success spawning rams in recent years, but I never tried my hand at raising fry because I'm usually busy with angels or something. I don't do anything special... I keep the water clean and warm, feed them well, and they will pair up and spawn. My water is pH 7.6 - 7.8, but they didn't have any problems hatching wrigglers. They disappeared soon after, though.

Healthy rams is key -- start with good stock and that will save you a lot of money and headache. The ones Marie posted look amazing! They're very deep-bodied and colorful. Kenny, maybe I need some rams :)

Ryan

[Kindredspirit]

The ones Marie posted look amazing! They're very deep-bodied and colorful. Kenny, maybe I need some rams :)

Ryan


They are? Well Thanks Ryan ~ coming from you that is real special ~ Yep Kenny wld be the one!



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_51.gif

[Kenny's Discus]

Don't mean to hi-jack here but thank you Ryan and Marie. I'll love to send these rams out to anyone interested but the dilema is that I don't know how to ship...yet. :-)

Thanks,
Kenny

[Kindredspirit]

I'll love to send these rams out to anyone interested but the dilema is that I don't know how to ship...yet. :-)

Thanks,
Kenny



http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif


YOU?

You mean to tell me YOU do not know how to do something? WoW ~ go figure ~ and you are my HERO too ~

Do you want me to drive down to the City and show you how? O.k.a.y. O.k.a.y..........if you insist Kenny ~



xo ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_4.gif

[BIGFOOT]

I think the key is stable water conditions (sound familiar?). Yep Discus


From what I have read so far is they need similar conditions as Discus for breeding. Like soft water,temp in the mid to upper 80's and they Nitrate sensitive.

Would anyone like to comment on the water conditions that they keep their rams at?

[Kindredspirit]

Would anyone like to comment on the water conditions that they keep their rams at?


Brian I keep mine in the same water as my discus as they are in the same tank:D It is at times like they are invisible to each other ~ strange....



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[Kenny's Discus]

Hello Brian - yes I keep my rams just like Marie does. My ph is about 7.6, Temp = 82-83 and I'm blessed with quite soft water here.(< 75 ppm)

Kenny

[Ryan]

Kenny, Al will teach you shipping. For little fish like rams it should be easy :) I'll be a guinea pig for the shipping :D

I keep my rams in similar water to Kenny. Temperature stays somewhere between 82 - 84F and the pH is between 7.6 - 7.8. My water's not soft like Kenny's, but they still spawned and showed great colors.

Ryan

[lhforbes12]

Kenny,
Yeah, what Ryan said. My 125 could still use a few more. Plus I would like to add to my breeding stock. Gimme a price and I'm there!

Larry

[BIGFOOT]

Hello Brian - yes I keep my rams just like Marie does. My ph is about 7.6, Temp = 82-83 and I'm blessed with quite soft water here.(< 75 ppm)

Kenny



Can you a pipe to my house? The water here is about 9 gdh butt the discus are doing good so I am not worried about getting rams too much.

[Kenny's Discus]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif


YOU?

You mean to tell me YOU do not know how to do something? WoW ~ go figure ~ and you are my HERO too ~

Do you want me to drive down to the City and show you how? O.k.a.y. O.k.a.y..........if you insist Kenny ~



xo ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_4.gif

Oh no Marie there're a lot of stuff I dunno know...no surprise there. I'm not sure about the hero part but I'm really glad I was able to help in some way. Thank you for your kind words Marie.

I'm waiting for you to come down in July and show me the shipping part...now please don't start hiding like Larry did lol.

LOL

Kenny
ps: when you come Marie maybe bring Candy-the shipping consultant over as well? lol

[Kenny's Discus]

Kenny, Al will teach you shipping. For little fish like rams it should be easy :) I'll be a guinea pig for the shipping :D

I keep my rams in similar water to Kenny. Temperature stays somewhere between 82 - 84F and the pH is between 7.6 - 7.8. My water's not soft like Kenny's, but they still spawned and showed great colors.

Ryan

Thanks for the suggestion Ryan. Al did teach me already but...you know what Ryan I think I'll just stick with learning from Marie this time. LOL

Thanks again Ryan,
Kenny

[Kenny's Discus]

Can you a pipe to my house? The water here is about 9 gdh butt the discus are doing good so I am not worried about getting rams too much.

Hi Brian - lol I don't think I can pipe it to your house, but it's really not necessary imo. I just happened to have soft water from my water supply but they should do fine in harder water as well. I've seen hobbyists raising these guys out in water > KH 10 and they were fine.

Hope you'll find the rams you're looking for Brian.
Kenny

[BIGFOOT]

Thanks Man..... I got a line on a local breeder just found him, he said his babys will be read in a month or so. It might be worth my wait. Till then I have a lot of work getting a tank ready for them.

[candyl70]

ps: when you come Marie maybe bring Candy-the shipping consultant over as well? lol



Brat!!!! ;) :D :D I'll be there Kenny... wouldn't miss this trip for anything!!!! :)

[Kenny's Discus]

Brat!!!! ;) :D :D I'll be there Kenny... wouldn't miss this trip for anything!!!! :)

Anytime Candy! It'll be my pleasure.

:-)

Kenny

[hexed]

Kenny,
I'll be a guinea pig too ;)
Frank :angel:

[Kenny's Discus]

Hello Frank - I'll tell you what friend...all these proven rams pairs will be going to a pair of great hands tomo: Jon aka Wine Country Discus(he's a sponsor of SD here). He's very good at artificial breeding and the best thing is that he ships too(I think)! I'm seeing more of these rams in places I've never seen b4 lol!

Take care Frank.
Kenny