L-177 Iriri Yellow-seams

[sleonard]

Several weeks ago I was browsing the LFS when I spotted a tank of L-177's for sale. Although I don't know plecos very well I remembered reading about them as tankmates for discus some time ago. I didn't remember much from the article but I did remember that they were good Discus tankmates and that they were relatively rare finds.

I took a chance and bought them even though they were expensive (like everything at this LFS, brought them home and put them in QT.

They are now happy, healthy, and keeping my 80G Discus tank clean (and a pretty good job of it too). about a week ago I noticed that only one was swimming around so I started looking for the other and soon found it inside a little cave in a piece of fake driftwood. It has rarely, if ever come out in 5 days now so tonight I did a search of Simply for L-177 wondering if maybe it was in there spawing.

It turns out that there's not much mention of them but in one thread LForbes posted a pic of his L-18 Gold Nugget. Someone else posted that it looked more like an L-177 and Larry replied that it was not because it did not have red eyes or stripes. The other poster replied back that the real difference was something about the spots and that the yellow edge on the fins was thicker on L-177's.

So now I was confused. My pleco's looked a lot like Larry's so I went searching the web to find out whether or not I had L-177's or L-18's. I found some pictures of an L-177 (http://www.webcityof.com/ffpw3.asp?IID=449) and an L-18 (http://www.webcityof.com/ffpw3.asp?IID=307) at the Master Index of Freshwater Fishes (http://www.webcityof.com/mifftitl.htm) and according the those pictures my plecos (and Larry's BTW) do look like L-177's. The description Larry gave of L-18's better describes the L-18 picture.

So, is the Master Index correct and both Larry and I have L-177's or is Larry correct and we both have L-18's?

Also, what is the answer to the question that started my on this quest? Could my cave-dwelling pleco be in there to spawn and I'll soon have a bunch of little plecos swimming around trying to avoid becoming Discus snacks?

BTW, I'm sorry I don't have pics of my fish. I don't yet have a camera :(

Scott

[Ramon Anastacio]

Scott,

I think that Planet Catfish has the best collection of archived information and pictures of catfish on the web, including L numbers.

Here's an article that might be helpful:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm.php?article_id=93

More L-177 photos:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=155

L-018:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=153

[lhforbes12]

Scott,
I am no pleco expert by any means, as should be obvious from the other thread. However, I bought mine as L-018, and in looking at the links Ramon posted, I am close to positive that I do in fact have L-018's. On my fish the "gold nuggets" are smaller than on the L-177. For that matter the photo of the L-018 could have been taken of one of my fish, they look that similar.
As far as the one possibly breeding goes, while again I am no expert, plecos are almost universally noctunal, so the one "hiding" is merely acting like a pleco. I would be far more concerned about the one swimming around in "daylight". To me this signals one or both of two scenarios;
1. The fish is starving and is looking for food.
2. There are no suitable places for it to claim a territory.

Our L-018's are out of QT and in the 125 community tank now. We very rarely see either of them, which as I understand it, is typical. Also, as I understand it, L-018's and Barriancistrus in general, are carnivores and don't eat algae. They are also extremely aggresive to other members of their species, and have been known to kill each other given a tank too small or not enough suitable "homes".
Brereding them is supposed to be relatively easy; a strong current directed at their cave will put them "in the mood".
In summation, the one in the cave is merely acting like a L-018/L-177 but the other one may have a problem.

Larry

[crimson cross]

Hi,
The difference between L18 and L177 is that the L18s have larger spots while the L177 have finer. L18s are called gold nuggets while the L177s are called yellow seam. They both need "meat" in their diet and you need to have a drift wood in your tank.hth.

[lhforbes12]

Hi,
The difference between L18 and L177 is that the L18s have larger spots while the L177 have finer. L18s are called gold nuggets while the L177s are called yellow seam. They both need "meat" in their diet and you need to have a drift wood in your tank.hth.

OK now I am very confused. If you follow the links Ramon posted the L-018's have the much finer spots.

[crimson cross]

Hi,
I purchase my l18s and l177s from my wholesaler. That is the way they identify the difference between the two. If you look at the first link that Ramon posted, they show both types as L18s....so maybe they are confused too....lol...
Phil.

[sleonard]

OK, I am (still) confused too. My plec's look like all but one of the L-18's at Planet Catfish and the L-177 at the Index of Freshwater fishes. Very small but bright yellow spots and many more of them than the Planet's L-177 link.

So, PlanetCatfish and Larry's dealer think L-18's have lots of finer spots and L-177's have fewer and bigger spots while the Index of Freshwater fishes, my dealer, and Crimson_Cross think the other way around.

I know it's unscientific but all sources agree that L-18 are Gold Nuggets and L-177's are Yellow-seam. The names kinda suggest that Crimson_Cross is correct.

It does appear that Larry and I have the same fish. Is there any way to get a definitive answer? Or will we never know for sure?

Ooh, did you hear that. It was the sound of my head exploding :)

Scott

As far as the care and feeding of these, do I need a piece of real driftwood? Also, will the leftover discus food provide good enough nutrition. I feed Hikari Discus food, Jack Wattley Discus formula (frozen seafood mix) and FBW. Of should I get something like Hikari Sinking Carnivore?

Scott

[crimson cross]

Scott,
From what my wholesaler told me, they do better with a drift wood as they are constantly "grazing" on it...not too sure if they are eating it or not, but I see them wearing out my Malaysian dw over time. hth.
Phil.

[lhforbes12]

Scott,
Mine seem to be fine eating leftovers, but I do have a very heavy hand when feeding. So far no problems even though there are the two Barriancistrus, 2 common plecos, 5 Corydorus julii, and 6 clown loaches in the 125. (btw notice my clever way of side-stepping the L-018/L-177 issue?) <grin> The common plecos and clown loaches are growing incredibly fast (one common pleco was purchased about two months ago at 2" and is already about 5"-6" TL, and the clown loaches were 1"-1 1/2" in September, '05 and are now over 4" TL). If I didn't feed so heavily I would be tempted to put bs tablets and catfish pellets in the tank at lights out though.

Larry

[sleonard]

I just got back from the LFS where I talked to a very knowledgable guy about the L designation. He told me that L-177's have the larger spots and the L-18's have the finer spots. When I told him about the ones he had for sale he looked at them and said that he thought they were L-18's and that when he orders them sometime he gets what he orders and sometimes not. Someone else had done the labeling and pricing based on their invoice while he was on vacation.

We then went thru his reference book of catfishes (I can't remember the name now but he claimed it was one of the best) and that had confusing info also. All of it's pictures of L-18's had the finer spots, the pictures of L-177's showed some with larger spots and some with fine spots. It also referred to the L-85 catfish that also had the fine-spots.

We concluded that the classifications were unreliable and the only one who knows for sure is the guy who caught them since only he knows the river they came from.

I'm going to claim them as L-177 Iriri Yellow-Seam since that's what they were sold as and let it go at that.

While I was there I got some Hikari Sinking Carnivore pellets and will drop a couple in every night.

Scott

[Ramon Anastacio]

[QUOTE=sleonard]I just got back from the LFS where I talked to a very knowledgable guy about the L designation. He told me that L-177's have the larger spots and the L-18's have the finer spots.

Scott,
That's how I understand it also. Gold Nuggets are one of my favorite plecos:) . I keep them with my Discus and they usually stay hidden under the driftwood.

I'm also told that L018's are the gold nuggets usually seen in the hobby, L-177's less frequently. Just look at the number of L-018 photos submitted to Planet Catfish and compare it with the number of L-177 photos.

Here's a photo of one of my L-018's
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ranastacio/L018.jpg

My L-177...or is it just another L-018?:confused:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y112/ranastacio/L177.jpg

[Ed13]

Scott, true L-177 come from a relatively small part of the Irii river in Brazil(that's why they cost more and are harder to find), ask your wholesaler where they came from if he doesn't know he is just quoting the exporter. BTW, 9 times out of ten, even if the wholesaler receives what he ordered individuals from other parts of the river and even different species can come in the same bag.

L-177 are more colorful than other nuggets, at a full size of around 8" it retains bigger spots an thicker seams than other nuggets, which can reach anywhere from 10"-14". But, keep in mind that these are just generalisations.

Any doubts don't just rely on looking at pics and reading articles, register at Planet Catfish, post the pic and they'll tell you what they think. Just like here the moderator there are very knowledgeable(some even with doctorates) and helpful

BTW male members of this family are notoriously aggressive, to the point of killing even their mates in small systems.

Could you do me a favor and ask the wholesaler the farm or exporter that he is dealing with?