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View Full Version : Setting up a 300 gallon planted tank.



calihawker
09-19-2006, 10:45 PM
Ok, so I'm breaking down my reef tank and have decided to do a planted discus tank. I'm posting over at the planted tank forum but I wanted to get some ideas from the discus camp as well:argue:

I fully understand the concepts of water chemistry, and the importance of acquiring species that are compatable with each other. What I'm not sure of is what new technologies exist today since the last time I bred discus (what about 1985??) filters, sumps, wet/dry. Whats going on in fresh water these days?

I'm particularily interested in making the system as automated as possible. This would include dosing ferts, auto feeding, water changes. I've done many diy custom mods to my reef tank over the years, and my goal with this one is to make it nearly hands off.

Here's my tank as I invision it right now.( we're talking just equipment for now)
2 Eheim 2028 canisters with inline heaters. A temp probe will be in the display connected to an aquacontroller. One will carry the co2 and will also be controlled by the aquacontroller via ph probe in the display.

I need to get some ideas as far as dosing ferts. I have an idea to design and build a multi chambered acrylic box that will hold the various fertilizers all in one unit with level indicators powered by either a small pump or using an air pump to force pressure. (i know you can make one out of a bottle but I really like building things:D )

So the real tough one is auto feeding. Whats available. What do you like or not like about them. Discus want to eat. All the time. Probably the reason I was so succesful with an sps reef was I didn't like feeding fish. So I didn't have very many. I still don't like feeding fish so I need to get somone(or something) to do it for me. And I don't mind building it.

Anyway thanks for your help.
This is gonna be fun

Steve

Ed13
09-19-2006, 11:29 PM
Here's my tank as I invision it right now.( we're talking just equipment for now)
2 Eheim 2028 canisters with inline heaters. A temp probe will be in the display connected to an aquacontroller. One will carry the co2 and will also be controlled by the aquacontroller via ph probe in the display.


Sounds good. I don't have much experience with eheim but, the few times that they have been employed they fell VERY short of expectations, having two canisters will probably eliminate this though.



I need to get some ideas as far as dosing ferts. I have an idea to design and build a multi chambered acrylic box that will hold the various fertilizers all in one unit with level indicators powered by either a small pump or using an air pump to force pressure. (i know you can make one out of a bottle but I really like building things:D )


Before you start with this project, may sure you know what you want the display to look like. No sense having a fert doser to feed a tank full of low light plants. A 300 gallon planted tank is easier to run than a reef tank,but you'll quickly find out that it is harder to aqua scape and maintain than a reef, plants grow much faster than corals and even though there is no chance of neighbor plants stinging each other, one fast growing plant will deprive another of light in less than a week requiring you to prune it and depending the depth of the tank it will become a tedious task. With the need of water changes in discus tanks there is chance that only potassium and iron will be the only ferts needed. Not saying that a 300 gallon dutch aquascape is impossible but it will require more time and effort than say a "Nature style acquascape" so keep it in mind



So the real tough one is auto feeding. Whats available. What do you like or not like about them. Discus want to eat. All the time. Probably the reason I was so succesful with an sps reef was I didn't like feeding fish. So I didn't have very many. I still don't like feeding fish so I need to get somone(or something) to do it for me. And I don't mind building it.



I say get the largest discus you can afford, since adults require a lot less food. Younger ones will require too much food to grow(think of anthias) into the beauties you see through out the web and even if 300 gallons of water will remain cleaner longer they won't find easily the food. The other way (my preferred method) is to acquire a second tank in the 55-90 gallon range and raise younger discus in a barebottom tank. This method will allow you to control the quality of the discus(and get them to try dry food) going to the actual display tank and will allow you to grow all of the other tank mates and have the layout of plants mature in the big tank. On the other hand if you can afford it full grown adult wilds will be another option, still I'd use the 75 gallon to quarantine and bring their health back up

Steve since your coming from the reef world I know that DIY projects are probably your second job;) , but no sense in complicating things more than needed

Since you don't mention it I'll assume that you have plenty of light coming from MH, but I'm guessing in the wrong spectrum. You'll need to solve this first!

For now concentrate on the logistics of making it happen, then I'll gladly help with the aesthetics of it. The best advice is to avoid the "rainbow", don't want to offend anyone but many hobbyists disrupt a beautiful aquascape with a color contrast of different variants of discus that take the focus away from the tank.

calihawker
09-20-2006, 03:46 AM
Hi Ed, Thanks for the great post!
You've got me sort of rethinking my approach now. Your comment on low light plant species made me realize I may not need as much lighting as I was planning (4x250 watt 6500k mh + pc florecents) What else am I planning that may be overkill.

So lets start with what I want this tank to be.
Natural looking (of course)
Slow growing (I don't want to have my hands in the tank every other day)
Maintanence free (well at least as much as possible)
Discus and some other large school of small tetra or whatever.




Sounds good. I don't have much experience with eheim but, the few times that they have been employed they fell VERY short of expectations, having two canisters will probably eliminate this though.


Is there another you like?


The other way (my preferred method) is to acquire a second tank in the 55-90 gallon range and raise younger discus in a barebottom tank. This method will allow you to control the quality of the discus(and get them to try dry food) going to the actual display tank and will allow you to grow all of the other tank mates and have the layout of plants mature in the big tank.


What a great idea!
I was wondering what I was going to do with my 80 gallon cube refugium:)
Do you think I should make it a quarantine or keep it plumbed into the display?
Less equipment keeping it the way it is.



For now concentrate on the logistics of making it happen, then I'll gladly help with the aesthetics of it. The best advice is to avoid the "rainbow", don't want to offend anyone but many hobbyists disrupt a beautiful aquascape with a color contrast of different variants of discus that take the focus away from the tank.


Aeshetics is the main point of this project. I just want to put a show tank in. That's it.

Thanks again
Steve

senso
09-20-2006, 11:31 AM
Hi Steve

The project sounds like an interesting and fun one.
PLANTS
The fact that you want to focus on slow growing planst is ideal with respect to the fact it is a Discus tank as well. There are a number of plants that do well (do not wilt) in the higher discus temps including anubias, cryptocorynes, java fern. These are also less demanding on the addition of CO2 (may not be necessary at all), rigorous nutrient dosing and mineral enriched substrates. Many plants can also be attached to driftwood, and with a fine substrate it will ensure you have the ability to clean the tank easily. In your planning think of the following
- groups of plants
- foreground, mid and back ground as well as a focal plant
LIGHT with low light palnts a gauge of 2wpg will suffice. Beyond that and you are dealing with some algae issue. Photoperiod is critical as well especially in the initial stages- err on less
FISH there are some tetras that are well suited to the higher temps including cardinals, rummy nose (a good indicator as well of your water quality). You may want to add some ottos and shrimp to keep the algae in check. A small group of bottom feeders such as corys will help remove any excess waste.

There are a number of examples of great Dicus planted tanks on the web that should provide both inspiration and direction.
Hope this helps and good luck

tpl*co
09-20-2006, 12:19 PM
Hi Steve

The project sounds like an interesting and fun one.
PLANTS
The fact that you want to focus on slow growing planst is ideal with respect to the fact it is a Discus tank as well. There are a number of plants that do well (do not wilt) in the higher discus temps including anubias, cryptocorynes, java fern. These are also less demanding on the addition of CO2 (may not be necessary at all), rigorous nutrient dosing and mineral enriched substrates. Many plants can also be attached to driftwood, and with a fine substrate it will ensure you have the ability to clean the tank easily. In your planning think of the following



I agree on the anubias and the crypts, I've had some trouble with the java ferns in my tank (all types) but I have my temps at 86 F so that could be it. Anubias are really slow growing so are great for a low maint. tank, but you'll need an algae clean up crew since they can get algae on their leaves. (some bristlenoses will do the job!) You can get anubias and crypts in all different shapes, sizes, and growth habits (I have a crypt. retrospirallis that looks like val, and red crypts) so you could put together something with just the 2.

Tina

lhforbes12
09-20-2006, 12:53 PM
Steve,
With that much light and at that color temp you will be able to grow whatever plants you want mostly. Very few plants wont do well for you especially if you keep your temperature on the low discus spectrum (82F). Although you like the DIY route Eheim makes a very nice doser, and Tim sent you a good link for an automatic feeder. There are a lot of automatic water changers on the Net, just look for them. I agree with Ed about the size of discus. Although I personally would prefer growing them out in another smaller tank instead of starting with adults. Try and keep your CO2 level in the 20 ppm - 30 ppm range and everything and everyone will be fine. Be sure to have at least some water surface movement since discus are heavy O2 users. Good luck!

Ed13
09-20-2006, 09:32 PM
Hi Ed, Thanks for the great post!
You've got me sort of rethinking my approach now. Your comment on low light plant species made me realize I may not need as much lighting as I was planning (4x250 watt 6500k mh + pc florecents) What else am I planning that may be overkill.

So lets start with what I want this tank to be.
Natural looking (of course)
Slow growing (I don't want to have my hands in the tank every other day)
Maintanence free (well at least as much as possible)
Discus and some other large school of small tetra or whatever.

Aeshetics is the main point of this project. I just want to put a show tank in. That's it.

Thanks again
Steve

If you have them Don't get rid of them, trust me, especially if they run independent of each other. Low light plants still require light;) and having such a good output will be great, but with different photo-periods. You'll be able to save some $$ on energy and bulbs plus you'll have a better time at keeping algae at bay, and no anubias won't turn black. Do get the right spectrum though


Hi Steve

The project sounds like an interesting and fun one.
PLANTS
The fact that you want to focus on slow growing planst is ideal with respect to the fact it is a Discus tank as well. There are a number of plants that do well (do not wilt) in the higher discus temps including anubias, cryptocorynes, java fern. These are also less demanding on the addition of CO2 (may not be necessary at all), rigorous nutrient dosing and mineral enriched substrates. Many plants can also be attached to driftwood, and with a fine substrate it will ensure you have the ability to clean the tank easily. In your planning think of the following
- groups of plants
- foreground, mid and back ground as well as a focal plant
LIGHT with low light palnts a gauge of 2wpg will suffice. Beyond that and you are dealing with some algae issue. Photoperiod is critical as well especially in the initial stages- err on less
FISH there are some tetras that are well suited to the higher temps including cardinals, rummy nose (a good indicator as well of your water quality). You may want to add some ottos and shrimp to keep the algae in check. A small group of bottom feeders such as corys will help remove any excess waste.

There are a number of examples of great Dicus planted tanks on the web that should provide both inspiration and direction.
Hope this helps and good luck

Do keep CO2 levels up even in low light setups. This means better growth and less algae. The wpg rule does not work, and works less in really big or small tanks


Steve,
I agree with Ed about the size of discus. Although I personally would prefer growing them out in another smaller tank instead of starting with adults. Try and keep your CO2 level in the 20 ppm - 30 ppm range and everything and everyone will be fine. Be sure to have at least some water surface movement since discus are heavy O2 users. Good luck!

This is great advice, remember that a good planted tank focuses on layout, the balance of the layout (including the choice of plants, hardscape, substrate, and fish) and the well being of the living creatures and tank itself.

For big tanks like this, you have to think things outside of the box. For example a low demanding plant such as Vallisneria Spiralis will become a nuisance very fast as it will invade too quickly other plants. Cryptocorine balansae and retrospiralis are better candidates but sometimes they will send daughter plants a couple of feet away from the mother, still easier to maintain. Anubias, java fern, bolbitis are good. Anubias look better lower to the ground while the others look better higher up in wood. Wood, use as much as you can find of the same kind. Wood gives you the characteristic of perpetuity. Amazons won't give you too much trouble in such a big tank, but create clusters of individuals of the same species. As far as foreground goes use either a sand foreground, this will give the discus and cories a place for foraging and will help with the color of discus or choose a plant like E. tenellus as other foreground plants are too troublesome in big tanks. Use anubias and Cryps such as wentii( red is my favorite) to tie the foreground with the mid and background. There are other options, but remember you want this hands off.

For fish a large school of Rummys and depending the color of discus plus layout other tetras as Bleeding heart, cardinals, serpeaas etc. Coridoras from brazil in general are the best but C. aneus, C. trilineatus, C. gossei, C. sterbai and Brochis are better suited for the high temps. For plecs use Ancistrus for algae control, but any member from the hypancistrus family will do for aesthetics
Choose few discus(less than 15) preferably of one color if you want an apealling design rather than eye catching discus. turqs, leopards, cobalts and blue diamonds are in my opinion the best domestics while heckels and browns are the best wilds

Remember that this are my opinios based on my taste others will vary.
Enjoy
Btw, I've had experience with big discus tanks 125-500g so most of what I wrote is coming from the perspective of the designer, hobbyist and they guy that has been up to his neck in water from other people's tanks:angry: :D

calihawker
09-21-2006, 11:21 AM
Wow! Great posts! Thanks everyone. I have some excellent ideas now.

A couple questions,

Regarding the discus grow out tank, It's an 80 gallon cube currently part of the display piped as a downdraft refugium. Sould I keep it this way or isolate it as a QT. Also I believe ther should be something in the tank for the discus to hide behind. The tank is right in front of the washing machine so they will be disturbed often. Any suggestions?

And in regards to the hardscape. What kinds of local things can I use and what should be avoided. I have massive amounts of manzanita around my property. I can come up with some pretty awesome shapes. And I have rock outcroppings composed of bluish/grey shale that I'd like to use.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions!!!

Steve

lhforbes12
09-21-2006, 12:43 PM
I see no problem with growing out your iniitial group in the 'fuge. You don't need to add anything to the tank as far as the discus are concerned, you may want to for your own enjoyment though. I firmly believe that the advice to put discus in a quiet, low traffic area just gives you fish that will always be skittish around people. I like putting them where there is heavy traffic but not a lot of noise. btw an 80 is a good size to raise 12, or a few more, to sub-adults IMO, just remember your water changes.