Cardinal Tetras... and the Quest to Keep them Alive!!

[EyeOfThierry]

Is it just me or does everyone have trouble keeping these nice Discus Tankmates alive. I've read that the water temp for Discus may be too high for cardinals... so is that why they're tough to keep... Every time I've tried introducing them into my Discus tank.. they just die off one by one...

Water quality is well fantastic... it's a discus tank.. it has to be... so any hints on how to take care of them?

Also what do they eat? I've tried crushing up flakes for them, but they are so silly and just swim by in some mindless zombie fashion.

[mryeburn]

I have kept a school of cardinals for about 5 years in a non-discus tank. In the wild they are seasonal fish who live and die with the wet and dry seasons or so I have read, this means a one year lifespan in the wild.

They like it hot at least 82 or greater. Discus temperatures should not be a problem for them, at least up to the mid-80's, above that I don't know.

They prefer to be in a large school, 12 or more will do well, a school of 6 might not do as well.

They are picky about water quality. Discus-quality water should be fine.

My cardinals eat flake food and freeze-dried bloodworms. Frozen brine shrimp are a treat for them.

For some reason cardinals may not do well when they are first brought home. I have read reports of die-offs of cardinal tetras once they get home from the store. Once they are well-established in a tank they can live for a long time.

I suggest buying cardinals that have been in a dealer's tank for a couple of weeks to have a better chance with them.

[billeagan]

I agree with Eye... I hit mine with potassium permagnate and fungus eliminator and prazi within in the first few days. This only leaves the strong guys...

I'm not sure on the life span. I'll have to put that on my research list.
Bill

[Ed13]

In the wild they are seasonal fish who live and die with the wet and dry seasons or so I have read, this means a one year lifespan in the wild.


In the amazon there is basically only two seasons, rainy and dry. That would mean a six month lifespan:confused: Some due die out or are picked by predators if they get trapped in small seasonal pools, but there are billions upon billions of the various species of cards. A couple of years ago a collector got $1.00 per thousand cardinals so there are plenty!




They prefer to be in a large school, 12 or more will do well, a school of 6 might not do as well.


They do better the more there are, they would prefer hundreds to thousands if THEY are making the choice;) 6-12 are hobbyist numbers
The most I've seen together in a show tank was 500 and it was so impressive I could have watch that tank for days




For some reason cardinals may not do well when they are first brought home. I have read reports of die-offs of cardinal tetras once they get home from the store. Once they are well-established in a tank they can live for a long time.


Very true, their problem is the shipping as short as it may be(even a couple of minutes) once they are established their really tough. I've seen too many bags of 500 cards arriving all dead:(



I suggest buying cardinals that have been in a dealer's tank for a couple of weeks to have a better chance with them.


Good point unfortunately I've seen it happened various times already, a year old or more cardinal dieing right after it has being captured so its not a guarantee. And it also brings another problems, the longer you wait the less stock to choose and the longer they are exposed to diseases in the dealer's tanks

My advice would be to either befriend the employees and owners so they can tell you
1 when they are coming. I've had great success taking some of the water they come in and grabbing a few to take them home
2 they may let you know when a particular batch is of good quality and when to avoid them
3 When farmed cards are available since these are way tougher

[Ed13]

I agree with Eye... I hit mine with potassium permagnate and fungus eliminator and prazi within in the first few days. This only leaves the strong guys...

I'm not sure on the life span. I'll have to put that on my research list.
Bill

Yes 5 years seems a little to optimistic, unless they were breed by him

[Squiggy]

Everytime I tried to keep them with discus the discus ate them. I'd leave and come back to find a bunch of very short cardinals resting on the bottom...:crazy:

[mryeburn]

Yes 5 years seems a little to optimistic, unless they were breed by him

No they weren't bred by me.

I made three attempts at breeding cardinals with no success, very frustrating.

[poconogal]

I've got 12 cardinals in with my Discus and they attack any food like little sharks in a feeding frenzy, tempting fate when swimming close to a Discus mouth to get that tasty morsel, and in fact a few of them attacked a very small Panda Cory that I had in the tank at one point. Yes... When Cardinal Tetras Attack! My 4.5" Discus no longer even notice them and have never eaten one. I don't even see how a Discus can catch one to eat. I had one chasing a Cardinal at top Discus speed once, all around the tank, and it was no contest! Cardinal... 1, Discus... 0.

Connie

[Ronald]

Hi All,

I have them with the Discus and it works out well for years now. That includes moving 2 times in the last 3 years.

Only problem was the size. My first batch got eat very quick.
Solution: I bought 50 more and grew them out a bit in a 45 gal tank and then everything was fine.
Mine eat flakes and brinshrimp. Some even nab at the bloodworms. Seen that not too often though.

Ronald

[lhforbes12]

The best advice is "know your source". As an example I have 50 or so in my 125 planted discus tank. My source was Bill Egan for most of them. They were purchased 3 or 4 months ago, not one has died. btw Bill sells them for a buck each. My discus don't even notice them.

[Harriett]

I have cardinals in my planted tank with the discus also. The only time I've had die off is when I first bring them in--they make it or they don't in the first couple days (in QT); I found that if I expose the discus when they're juvies to good sized cards, they grow up thinking of them as tank mates, not lunch--never had them eaten in the big tank. I have a small school of about a dozen that I have had for 5 years now--they were fairly young when I got them. The cardinals eat anything that the discus don't eat first. Not fussy.
Acclimate them very slowly to your water with a drip method (I use airline with a knot tied so it just drips into the bucket). I'd like to have a whole lot more of them, love these little fish--hey Bill, you got my order, right?
Thanks
Harriett

[lhforbes12]

I have cardinals in my planted tank with the discus also. The only time I've had die off is when I first bring them in--they make it or they don't in the first couple days (in QT); I found that if I expose the discus when they're juvies to good sized cards, they grow up thinking of them as tank mates, not lunch--never had them eaten in the big tank. I have a small school of about a dozen that I have had for 5 years now--they were fairly young when I got them. The cardinals eat anything that the discus don't eat first. Not fussy.
Acclimate them very slowly to your water with a drip method (I use airline with a knot tied so it just drips into the bucket). I'd like to have a whole lot more of them, love these little fish--hey Bill, you got my order, right?
Thanks
Harriett

Harriett,
Since I got mine from Bill I just did a "flop and drop" into the QT tank, they were fine. But as you already know, our water is from the same source as yours, Lake Michigan.

[billeagan]

The other thing to consider is when dealing with the wild stuff like I do you really don't know the age. Especially when you deal with the adults. So, the ticker could just go for natural causes and wonder what you did...

[lhforbes12]

The other thing to consider is when dealing with the wild stuff like I do you really don't know the age. Especially when you deal with the adults. So, the ticker could just go for natural causes and wonder what you did...

I find this usually isn't the case though. Normally I get young fish about 1" long TL, this is less than half their adult age. The ones I got from you are a good example of this Bill. They are still under 2" as I type this. But yes, starting with youngsters is always preferable IMO.

[EyeOfThierry]

Well this past weekend (sun) I bought 20 of them... it's thursday morning as I write this and i'm down to 12... i dripped acclimated them into the tank.

I've been feeding my discus blackworms this week (rare treat) since i got them from a better than average source. i saw a few cards nipping at the worms but thats it.. i've been crushing some flakes.. and i even threw in some frozen brine.. haven't really seen them nibbling much less feasting... and i figure if they don't soon.. i'll be left with none...

The only issue with the water i'm using is that it's relatively hard. I've read that the tetras like very soft water like discus. I won't be able to supply soft water till my purchase of an r/o... so i'm wondering if that will make a difference or if they'll even last that long... sad... :(

[EyeOfThierry]

hmm 11...

[EyeOfThierry]

looks like i'm stable now at 8 cardinals...

So that was painful... went from the initial 20 fish purchase down to 8...

That's after drop acclimating and trying to be to keep them stress free...

Not a great percent rate, but better than my prior batch.

[jpfelix]

That's after drop acclimating and trying to be to keep them stress free...


you should never drop your fish!! they don't like it!!:p

[aquaticplantman]

you should never drop your fish!! they don't like it!!:p

What are you talking about? I let my cat bat around any new fish and they all have a great time. Okay, sorry "Eye" for getting off track. Sorry to hear you're having such a tough time with the Cards. Maybe your LFS isn't able to get a very good supply? Would it be possible to show some pics of what you have and what is in the store?

I've been keeping cardinals with my discus for several years now. No new info to add. The weirdest thing about them, is one time when I purchased some from a LFS, they bagged them up and almost all of them immediately went belly up in the bag before I even paid for them. I had enough trust in the guy to believe his "bag shock" explaination, and guess what, they were all fine. They came back around as I floated their bag in their new tank. They are just tricky little fish. As with any fish, only buy healthy ones as far as you can tell, and be expecially slow with the acclimation.

-- Matt H.

[EyeOfThierry]

you should never drop your fish!! they don't like it!!:p

Really?? don't drop the fish?? hmmm... i thought i read on Simply, Article 10.C Section 32 sub code 1a, which states, adequately flop your fish around and render them unconscious, in order to prepare them for proper acclimation to the general water parameters of your tank... (kinda like "Mr. T" style of traquilzation)

I'll have to cross that line out of my Guide Book... (as not adequately effective)

:p :) :D