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tacks
12-01-2006, 04:02 PM
I am in the process of buying 8 discus for a planted tank. I was talking with a discus dealer from this site and said do not use flourish excel in my tank. I was wondering does anyone use it and the results. thanks Ed

wolfbane
12-01-2006, 04:16 PM
I use Excell. I used it at high levels to clear my tank of hair algae, and use it at normal levels once a week or two. I'm not very consistant I guess. but, my plants are growing well.

traco
12-01-2006, 04:43 PM
I use it also and have no problems. Although, it can get a little expensive when dosing larger tanks. Some here use Greg Watson's fertilizers, I believe?

dandestroy
12-01-2006, 04:54 PM
I only use it in massive amount to get rid of BBA (which worked finally 2 after 2 months when combined to high Co2 level).

Anyways the discus did'nt seem to care much when I add it or not, but man its expensive when used like that.

Polar_Bear
12-01-2006, 05:00 PM
I use Flouish Excel and Greg Watson fertilizers (they are for different purposes) I use Excel even in tanks that are CO2 injected. Like Debbie I also use it to erradicate BBA. I have never had a problem with Excel and discus other than slight distress with the discus on day one of over dosing. I do know others who have had bad problems with their discus and over dosing Excel (I have heard of no problems when it is used as directed). My best advice would be to try it in your situation and be prepared to do a massive water change in case there is a problem. I seriously doubt you will have any problems though. There are a lot of people who tell horror stories about using Excel, I think it mainly stems from them using FAR too much Excel. (btw when I say over dosing I am referring to three times the recommended amount, I personally would not exceed this)

bz79
12-01-2006, 06:10 PM
I used it without any problems for months...then one day my discus decided to swim through it while I was adding it. I lost 3 of my 4 discus in the tank. :(

It does work great for controlling certain algae and I've never had any problems with it other than that one time. I don't keep discus in my planted tank anymore but do keep rainbows that often spawn in the plants and I've never had issues with them and the excel, or any of the other fish I keep in there.

Owl
12-01-2006, 06:35 PM
A friend in New Zealand advised me to use Excel at double the strength to rid my planted discus tank of hair algae, it did no harm to the fish, which included corydora sterbai and cardinals.

GrillMaster
12-01-2006, 08:37 PM
If the breeder you are purchasing the Discus from told you not to use it, I wouldn't use it!!!

If you still think you should...

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4656&Ntt=flourish%20excel&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

The 2 liter will last quite awhile.

GrillMaster
12-01-2006, 08:39 PM
A friend in New Zealand advised me to use Excel at double the strength to rid my planted discus tank of hair algae, it did no harm to the fish, which included corydora sterbai and cardinals.

Hair algae is really easy to get rid of without chemicals. Just turn the c02 up for a few days, an it will dissapear right before your eyes. ;)

If you dont have c02, well flourish excel is the next best thing.

marielou20
02-23-2008, 09:11 PM
I am using Flourish Excel right now to get rid of my algae that grows on my piece of wood and differents places in my tank . I started the treatment 6 days ago and since, I didn't see a big change with the algae, it looks worst, my glass is full of algae, I have to clean it more often since I started the treatment.:confused:

Is that normal????

BSW
02-23-2008, 09:33 PM
What type of lighting are you using ?
How long is your photo period ?
How many gallon tank ?
Do you use Co2 ?
What other fertilizers if any are you using ?
How heavily is the tank planted ?
What is your substrate ?
B

Wahter
02-23-2008, 09:50 PM
I've used Excel at double and occasionally triple dose to fight back both black/ red brush algae and the green hair algae. Works for me.


Walter

phidelt85
02-24-2008, 09:11 AM
Works for me too, with no problems as of yet.

Nanu
02-25-2008, 03:50 AM
Would advise you not to 'overdose' the Flourish Excel, though I haven't lost any disucs I have lost a pair of Kribs and Rams on overdosing with this to get rid of algae...
Hope this helps..
Cheers...

Harriett
02-26-2008, 01:41 PM
I used it to try and clear some older algae that was still hanging around the big planted tank. I had been experimenting with my ferts to get them right [a part time job for this tank!] and once I finally nailed it, I just wanted the tank to be totally clear of ANY algae. Everybody's dream...so I got EXCEL. THere were directions for the inital loading dose and then much smaller amounts for maintenance dosing. I measured the loading dose amount and put it in a quart of water. I poured it in at the oppisite end of the tank from where all the discus were schooling right then. However, as soon as they saw me, they zoomed over to me looking for treats, no doubt, and swam right through the stream of EXCEL. In 10 minutes all the discus keeled right over. I did an emergency 50% water change in a panic, followed by another 30% change a few hours later. Of those than swam through the stream, 3 discus survived but it took a week or so for them to totally look and act normal again [all their coats were straight up stripped by the EXCEL--and I am wondering if there were osmotic changes in fluids internally or something creepy], and 2 died within 24 hours--these were all 5 year old large adults. I was sick about it. The morning after dosing, when the lights in the tank went on, I have to say I was completely blown away: the tank was completely pristine, NO ALGAE ANYWHERE, the leaves were vibrant and the whole tank looked fantastic......I then researched further on SD and found a few stories that I had previously missed regarding this specific issue: the posts where EXCEL was inadvertantly poured on the discus yielded dead discus.....the other posts said no problems. I am now using EXCEL 5ml every other day when I dose ferts in this 180g, it continues to keep the tank pristine, and I certainly learned the hard way.
If this stuff hadn't worked like a freaking miracle, algae wise, I would have thrown it out the window....be careful and you'll love the product. Obviously if you intend to incorporate it as part of your usual routine, buy in quantity, it's cheaper.
Best regards
Harriett

YSS
02-29-2008, 12:09 PM
This is weired. I stopped using Flourish because I thought my algae problem was getting worse. But I never over dosed. So when you under dose, it will promote algae growth, but when you over dose, it stops?

thang45
02-29-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm starting to get hair algae and I have to cut the leaf because I'm unable to remove the hair algae.

So EXCEL will remove algae? Thatís so cool. I have Flourish and Iron will this do anything to the algae?

Apistomaster
02-29-2008, 12:49 PM
I have never tried Fluorish Excel but a friend of mine who is an expert breeder of fancy plecos( some 30 different species) including Hypancistrus zebra and owner of a modern fish shop, used it as normal in a tank containing young Sturisoma aureum I raised and sold to her. They were her personal fish meant for future breeding. She had two batches of different ages. Some she had for three months and others a few weeks. The aquarium contained some other peaceful fish.
Any way, she added the Excel and the healthy Sturisoma began dying immediately until all were dead. None of the other fish had any adverse effects.
She is also a moderator on planetcatfish.com

Sturisoma sp come from fast moving shallow streams, highly oxygenated waters. I don't know how Excel works but my understanding is that it is a way to deliver carbon to plants to enhance their growth.
I don't draw any conclusions, but I thought relaying this experience might mean something to some one.

Sturisoma are commonly known as the Royal Whip Tail Catfish

Dissident
02-29-2008, 01:14 PM
I'm starting to get hair algae and I have to cut the leaf because I'm unable to remove the hair algae.

So EXCEL will remove algae? Thatís so cool. I have Flourish and Iron will this do anything to the algae?

Flourish Iron will not work the same as EXCEL. EXCEL has a mild algaecide in it which in a lot of tests/studies has little adverse effects to plants when used in larger dosages.

As you have read use caution when overdosing EXCEL, Loaches, catfish, shrimp, and a few other aquatic species can be killed with large doses of excel.

thang45
02-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Flourish Iron will not work the same as EXCEL. EXCEL has a mild algaecide in it which in a lot of tests/studies has little adverse effects to plants when used in larger dosages.

As you have read use caution when overdosing EXCEL, Loaches, catfish, shrimp, and a few other aquatic species can be killed with large doses of excel.

I wouldn't mind give it a try, of course at lightest dose possible. I would very angry if I kill any fish.

pinkertd
02-29-2008, 02:27 PM
I have a low tech planted discus tank, no CO2. I'm very hesitant to add root fertilizer tabs to the tank because I have been know to redecorate the tank when the mood strikes, and I didn't want to release the fert. tabs into the water column. so I opted to use Liquid Flourish and/or Flourish Excel after each water change. Most times when I complete the maintenance/water change on that tank, I sit down in front of it and take a tea break before going on to my smaller tanks. It was then that I noticed the discus seem to be irritated after each time the excel was added. I added it and observed the same behavior several times and then decided something in it did not agree with their skin. They are fine however with the Liquid Flourish, so I still add that. Since then I have read a couple of times where other fish seemed irritated by the Excel as well, so just keep an eye on your fish after you add it.

Also, Excel will melt your crypts and vals.....totally! Be careful!

GrillMaster
02-29-2008, 02:35 PM
Here is a great thread about Flourish excel you guys might want to take a look at. I have done the same thing in my tanks in the past and it works.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/20172-excel-treatment-bba-experiences.html

tc
Mark

Harriett
02-29-2008, 02:36 PM
My success with it has NOT been at overdose levels. My feedback: When I did the 'loading dose', the fish swam right through the stream as I poured it into the tank [diluted in some water but not a major amount of H20]. All discus, as said, had big trouble. I also lost an L260 pleco and a loach or two.
Polar Bear [Larry] never accidentally poured it on his fish and never has had trouble.
After that traumatic episode in my tank was over, I am still using the product....I do it at the rate of [for my 180g tank which has about 170g water between tank water column the canister filter], 10-20ml EXCEL every other day 3 x week. It is working very well, no fish problems at all. I add ferts and excel together 3 x week in a quart of tank water FAR from the fish--I pour it right near the filter intake so it goes right through the plumbing and comes out quite deleted.
It is working just fine. I was INCREDIBLY apprehensive about continueing to use it after I murdered my discus but honest to God--the tank was like a miracle in how cleaned up and vibrant it looked! So I have experimented successfully with the ferts, lights, filter, etc etc. Excel was the last piece.
Best regards
Harriett

YSS
02-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Just checked my old bottle, and it's regular Flourish, not Excel. So, I guess these are two different product. Anyhow, when I used the regular Flourish, it really made algae grow.

Harriett
02-29-2008, 04:57 PM
Yeah, regular Flourish is dark brown and a little stinky. EXCEL is a thinck clear liquid. If you overdosed Flourish unbalancing the tank [the light, Co2, etc.] then you could easily have brought on an algae attack.
Best regards
Harriett

Dissident
02-29-2008, 05:22 PM
Just checked my old bottle, and it's regular Flourish, not Excel. So, I guess these are two different product. Anyhow, when I used the regular Flourish, it really made algae grow.

'Regular' Flourish is trace elements. If you were over dosing that I would do as large as a WC as possible to reset the tank and get as much trace elements out as possible. Algae Loves trace elements, plants use them but is small quantities but algae will use all it can get.

judy
02-29-2008, 05:51 PM
I use Excel and my crypts and val are both doing great...

Wahter
02-29-2008, 07:02 PM
I use Excel and my crypts and val are both doing great...


Same here. Changes in the environment will generally cause crypts to melt, but since not everyone has the same water conditions, same lighting, etc... 'your mileage may vary'.

The only time I had vallisneria melt on me was when I treated some fish with nitrofurazone (one of the components in Furan 2). I've been told vals are sensitive to copper too.

Here's the page on Flourish Excel:

http://seachem.com/products/product_pages/FlourishExcel.html

The tank I've used it in has goldnugget pl*cos and clown loaches (definitely sensitive fish) - no negative effects noticed.

hope that helps.



Walter

GrillMaster
02-29-2008, 07:42 PM
Excel is organic carbon so overdosing to kill algae will essentially add an excess of carbon to the water which will stress any fish.

One thing to watch for as it has happened to me in the past. Regular dosing of excel is fine. If you want to try to overdose in order to kill BBA... Vals will definately melt.

tc
Mark

phidelt85
02-29-2008, 09:47 PM
I've actually had success spot treating plants such as anubias to remove the algae growth on their root systems. I don't overdose either and haven't had issues with any of the inhabitants which include some cories, and several ABN and BNs.

geleen
03-01-2008, 12:04 AM
When I added the initial (larger) dose, the fish quit eating for 24 hrs. They were visibly down and lethargic. This was NOT a discus tank but a community of rainbows and larger barbs etc.

Now I use the recommended maintenance dosage only, even after a large water change. The plants love it... the fish are ok from what I can tell. Actually no difference in algae that I can see.
I find it fascinating and a bit disconcerting that there can be such variety of experiences:(
J.

GrillMaster
03-01-2008, 01:56 AM
I find it fascinating and a bit disconcerting that there can be such variety of experiences:(
J.

Every tank is different in chemistry, filtration, plant mass, tank size etc...Also the way each individual uses it will differ to some degree. Some people like Jose mentioned will turn off the filters and apply it directly to affected areas with syringes(works great with anubias)Some use it as directed. Others will just dump it in the tank and some will dilute it before adding it to the tank. Some will over dose more than others.

Lots of variables will create alot of variety.

tc
Mark