HI, need your help

[Sputnik]

well, im going to start keeping discus in about a month or two, and was wondering what you think of this proposed set up

i was thinking of having quite a heavily planted tank (in a juwel vision 180) and of running CO2 and using a decent dose of fert. shoud i use RO water for the tank, for water changes and such?
Due to it being highly planted, will i need an external, or just keep the internal filter that comes with the tank?

Plants:
7 Hygrophilia Polysperma
5 Amazon Swords
5 Red myrophyllum
7 Cabomba
7 Vallis Corkscrew
5 Indian Fern
7 Red Ludwigia




Overall i would be looking to have 3-4 discus, a golden nugget plec, 2 bolivian rams, and maybe a pair of cory's, what do you think

[Ardan]

Hi and welcome!
I am not a planted tank person (maybe someday, have tried it yrs ago) especially for starting out in discus.
I found its easier to keep a tank clean (which is important to grow discus imo) if the tank is not planted, no gravel....
I also like more wc's for discus than other fish, so it may affect how you fertilize....?

CO2 must be controlled very accurately also so the fish aren't affected.

RO water is only necessary if you want to breed or if your incoming water is not fit for discus (if you can drink the water its is probably ok for discus)
Hopefully some of the planted tank experts can give you more advice.
Best of luck:)
Ardan

[rlong]

Hi,
Weclome to SimplyDiscus.

I have a planted Discus tank.
http://home.wi.rr.com/rlongroot/projects/Bowfront-Tank-005.jpg

I have 4 Discus in my 72 Gallon bowfront.
I use RO water and reconstute it with the ingredients I want.

As for cleaning, in a planted tank is less important as the substrate and plants provide aditional filtering.

[Darren's Discus]

HI, welcome to simply glad to hear your getting into discus.imo a bare bottom tank is the only way to go for long term health for your discus,not saying you can't have discus in a planted as you would see on this site many do with excellent results,it just means a lot of extra work. remember where does the uneaten food and faeces go ? gravel is like carpet it hides the nasties.I'd prefer a nice barebottom tank with some potted plants.


cheers

[Darren's Discus]

[
As for cleaning, in a planted tank is less important as the substrate and plants provide aditional filtering.[/QUOTE]

OH REALLY !

[Sputnik]

i have decided not to dose with fertilizer, im going to use fertilizer below my substrate, therfore making it easier when doing WC's

[brewmaster15]

HI Sputnik,
Welcome to Simplydiscus!:) I love the look of a planted tank, and theres many here that have done them. I'm going move this to the planted tank section where it will get more attention.


One bit of advice I can give ...if you can go with large fish as in young adults...you'll be much better off with them in a planted tank..

Theres much about raising young discus that makes it very challenging in a planted tank... most do not grow well and often their health suffers.


hth,
al

[wolfbane]

I raised my discus in a bare bottom tank, til they topped 4 inches, then put them in a planted tank. Much easier to raise healthy babies in the BB tank, young adults can handle the planted tank OK. It's too hard to feed the way you should with babies, and keep the water clean. Get your plants established in your display tank while you are growing out the youngsters in a bare tank. Feed, often, and clean water, that's what babies need.

[Polar_Bear]

[
As for cleaning, in a planted tank is less important as the substrate and plants provide aditional filtering.

OH REALLY ![/quote]

Darren,
This is actually true to a certain extent, but you are right to be skeptical.

Sputnik,
You have already been given some very good advice and I do happen to be a plant guy. IMO raising discus is always best done in a BB tank, you can always add substrate and plants later after they have grown a bit. If you decide that you really want to try raising them in a substrate bottomed tank then my best advice would be to feed less and accept that your fish will not reach the size they could have.

[Darren's Discus]

JMO but it takes me all of 5minutes to siphon out waste wipe down glass and rinse sponge in my bb tanks as for my planted it takes a good 30 min to clean gravel wipe plants and glass and clean filter !
here is a pic of my discus retirement home.


cheers

[diablocanine]

well, im going to start keeping discus in about a month or two, and was wondering what you think of this proposed set up

i was thinking of having quite a heavily planted tank (in a juwel vision 180) and of running CO2 and using a decent dose of fert. shoud i use RO water for the tank, for water changes and such?
Due to it being highly planted, will i need an external, or just keep the internal filter that comes with the tank?

Plants:
7 Hygrophilia Polysperma
5 Amazon Swords
5 Red myrophyllum
7 Cabomba
7 Vallis Corkscrew
5 Indian Fern
7 Red Ludwigia




Overall i would be looking to have 3-4 discus, a golden nugget plec, 2 bolivian rams, and maybe a pair of cory's, what do you think

Tank size may be an issue for 4 adult Discus, will need plenty of bottom feeders for sure. Sterbai handle the heat well. Gold Nuggets are not good algae janitors, have never seen mine touch algae but they do bottom clean well. Consider getting a few Bristlenose to help keep algae in check. Straight RO water is not an issue in a heavily planted tank, study the EI method and PMDD at the krib. Additional filtration really depends on the efficiency of the current setup and your water change schedule. Grow the tank out first, heavily planted will allow more hiding room to minimize the aggression of a small/crowded Discus population. Keep in mind, if/when you put Discus in a heavily planted tank, you may not see them for a while.......DC

[Sputnik]

thanks,
i was planning on cycling the tank, then when that is done, add my cory's, plec (might choose a para plec) and rummy noses (maybe 3 cory's and 6 rummy noses), then i'm thinking of getting a proven pair of discus, and leaving it like that for a while.

i was researching, and decided that 4 discus would be too many, and 3 would maybe result in bullying

thank so far:)

[rcomeau]

You are apparently building a tank similar to mine so I will share some key learnings.

I regret my third Discus. The female keeps the second male hidden in the back.

The Rams are fun. Get a pair if just two. Males and females are easy to differenciate if they are big enough. More than two are fun to watch as they play fight for territory. Rams eat some of the meat intended for Discus.

If you use RO water for changes then I think you will need to add back in trace elements for the plants. Read about the EI method (http://www.barrreport.com/estimative-index/62-estimative-index-dosing-no-need-test-kits.html) as suggested.

You listed a lot of plants. For example, you listed 5 swords. You can grow many from just 1. If all of the plants grow well there will be too many. If none grow well then there will be a lot lost. Consider fewer and match your planned temperature and lighting. You can always add later if need be (or buy a package set as planned).

I had to control Algae with Flourish Excel. Over dose (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/algae-specific-problems/3806-flourish-excel-got-rid-of-all.html) with it if Algae begins to win. I started injecting CO2 and regulating PH at 7 before using Excel but didn't control the algae until the Excel.

Corys didn't make it in my tank for some reason. Algae eaters grew for about a month then died. I only considered a pleco. I'm not sure I want one that grows big. 3 otos have lasted. They seem to make a good cleaning crew. I might get more.

Discus in the planted tank work but I understand the comments to avoid it. At best, their color isn't always best because they change color to match my black substrate. At worst, they are sick, or look sick, as very dark, fins clamped, etc. They looked best when I put them in a bare bottom hospital tank to cure Hith. They ate the best in the bare bottom tank, it was easy to clean, and I was more aggressive about 50% water changes after each day of meds. I prefer the planted tank because my goal is to have what I want to look at most... plants hiding filters and heaters rather than crap on the bottom since the last water change. They were most stressed when I was often disturbing the plants and substrate to fight the algae. Most of all that has settled down now and their color is pretty good.

External vs internal filter is yet another big topic. I use two simple internal filters. They keep the water safe and particulate filtered out but the airstones de-gas the CO2. I think external is better for injecting the CO2 before the filter.

[GrillMaster]

thanks,
i was planning on cycling the tank, then when that is done, add my cory's, plec (might choose a para plec) and rummy noses (maybe 3 cory's and 6 rummy noses), then i'm thinking of getting a proven pair of discus, and leaving it like that for a while.

i was researching, and decided that 4 discus would be too many, and 3 would maybe result in bullying

thank so far:)

Hi Sputnik.. Welcome to Simply!!

I have read most of the thread so far, an there are a couple of issues I would like to point out for ya.

First of all there is no such thing as cycling a heavily planted tank. You fill the tank up with water, fill it with plants, an waa laa its cycled. Make sure you stuff it with alot of stem plants like ludwiga, water sprite, Cabomba, hygro etc... The plants thrive on the ammonia, nitrites, an nitrates. No dosing required for the first month or so.

Second...The only thing I would be puttin fert tabs or jobe sticks under are the sword plants, an only when you have them in a permanent place. Stem plants take the nutrition from the water column an not the substrate. If you have under substrate ferts, an decide to pull a plant or two because ya dont like the looks, or ya wanna rescape etc... stand by with the UV filter cause GW an algae are gonna pay ya a visit in short order!!!

If you want to have a planted discus tank get adults. They dont need the feeding regime that juvies need to grow. WC's can be 50% once a week.

You really dont need RO as mentioned before, but test the ph out of your tap, then again after it has been aerated for 24 hours. If there is a large ph swing, you might consider aging the water.

Start with alot of plants!! It is easier to remove excess plants than to not have enough an run into algae problems. Plants dont provide additional filtering per say, but will uptake the ammonia, N02, N03, an P04. This is where the balance of ferts an lighting come in. A very heavy planted tank with say 3 wpg will need additional ferts to thrive than a heavily planted tank with just 1.5 WPG. I dont know your lighting, but start low, feed the fish heavy, an watch yer plants. They will let ya know if they need anything.

Do one or two 50% WC's each week an the fish will take care of themselves.

C02 is a great tool for keeping algae at bay. It will also increase the growth rate of the plants, which means more fertilizing to keep up with the excess growth. Start slow with the c02. You can stress out or kill fish in a hurry with over saturation of it. If you do not have at least 1.5 WPG, I wouldn't bother with c02. Just use excel a few times a week. You would need a 120 watts over that 180 to get 1.5 WPG.

Adult discus will do just fine in your tank with the proper WC's. The algae might kick yer butt a little, but wont hurt your fish any. ;)