Algae, Algae Everwhere!

[poconogal]

I've been patiently waiting for 2 tanks to mature to the point where there will be no brown diatom algae appearing. I've been told that it could take up to a year for that to happen, and that once green algae begins to appear, the brown would begin to fade away. So now I have what looks like spot algae (green spots all on the back wall of the tank), green hair algae (at least I think that's what it is, it grows long and looks like green hair) and brown diatom algae, too!!! aarrrgh!!!!! My puny wattage light is on for 12 hours per day, it is a basic 32W T8 bulb. I'm thinking of cutting back on the number of hours the light is on, but since I do have some potted Anubias, Onion Plants, Amazon Swords and Moss Balls in the tank, how much can I cut back on lighting, and if only an hour or two, will that be enough to help with the algae without causing a problem for the plants? I do have 20 foot high windows in the room and lots of bright ambient room light. Is there anything else I can do to minimize this nuisance stuff?

[fwaugust]

I'm new to planted tanks, but do you use Excel and CO2 it might help.

[dean]

P gal,
Without knowing what your tank parameters are, I would suggest going to THE Planted Tank web site and researching.
A well balanced planted tank will require more lighting,fertilizer regime,and a co2 source(Excel or gas).
I would also suggest upgarding light, then add CO2 then get some fast growing stems that will consume NH4/nitrates and you will be on the way to algae free.

[poconogal]

I'm new to planted tanks, but do you use Excel and CO2 it might help.


P gal,
Without knowing what your tank parameters are, I would suggest going to THE Planted Tank web site and researching.
A well balanced planted tank will require more lighting,fertilizer regime,and a co2 source(Excel or gas).
I would also suggest upgarding light, then add CO2 then get some fast growing stems that will consume NH4/nitrates and you will be on the way to algae free.

Hi - all I have are those few low light potted plants and a mostly BB tank. Its by no means a planted tank at all. :D I want to keep it "no tech" which is why I was thinking of reducing the time the light is on. Parameters are temp 84, PH 8.0, dkh 4, dgh 4, ammonia/nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 ppm. WCs with straight tap. I'm on a private well with tap PH 8.0, dkh 4, dgh 5, 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, about 115 TDS at last testing.

[GrillMaster]

Hi ya poconogal...That is one draw back with low tech low light tanks with discus in them.

Here is what I would do. Cut the lighting back to 7 hours. The reason I say this is the 20" windows with ambient lighting isnt helping the situation at all.

The GSA is due to insufficient PO4(phosphate) When you do a water change your simply sucking the nutrients out of the tank.

How often do you do Wc's? The less the better. C02 from the WC's will kick start algae real quick in a low tech tank. I would slow down on the wc's if the discus are adults. (this is what I would do anyways)

Get some of this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4656&Ntt=flourish%20excel&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

an this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4652

hth
Mark

[Alight]

I have very little problem with algae in my low tech Discus tank with potted plants. No diatoms at all. I get green spot algae on the bottom, and some very slowly growing green spot on sides, but it's easy to take care of with razor blade scraping every couple of weeks.

I get a bit of staghorn on my alternantha, but, again, some picking at it every week or so keeps it at bay.

I do not fertilize any of the plants (swords, crypts, java ferns and Red Temple).

I have 80 watts of flourescent lighting over a 55 gallon tank. I keep up to 10 adult Discus in this tank, on occasion with the average number at 6.

(It's my grow out tank, so I've had as many as 150 young Discus in it on occasion). Pic, below.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21031&d=1169525257

[poconogal]

I'm now planning on testing my water for phosphate. I live in a mountainous area and as I understand it, phosphate in water in mountainous areas is quite common. Although my water is soft (4 dkh, 5 dgh, 110-115 TDS), I have a high PH, now up to 8.4, and it is buffered very well. Phosphate may well be what is buffering my PH, and perhaps causing all this algae. I have an auto feeder but there is nothing left on the tank bottom, nothing really even reaches the tank bottom so I don't think its excess nutrients from food, although I understand Tetra Bits has a lot of phosphate. My 20g community, now that I think of it, has the light on much less time, gets much less ambient room light, and its also getting the same algae. I don't feed Tetra Bits to them very much at all. The only difference that's occurred recently is that my PH has done its winter rise, from 7.8 to 8.4, which I think is corresponding with the algae going wild in my tank.

[Ed13]

My first step in this case would be to interrupt the cycle of the algae by having the lights no more than six hours straight on, then a rest of at least an hour, then on again for no more than six. If that doesn't work then I'd reduce the total hours(still using the rest).
You don't mention nutients or CO2. With out knowing how much light the windows are contribuiting or how much water is being change its hard to give advice.
In most low light low tech set ups like this one I like to use two 32w T8 or more, a photoperiod of 4hr on- 1.5hr-off-4hr on (adjudting as necesary) and depending on water changes, water parameters, # and type of plants and how the tank is stock I either don't use any nutrients or I add potassium and iron. You may need to add(not likey) phosphate or nitrogen etc.

You'll have to find out what nutrients your water has and what you need though. For example the way I stock tanks plus the fact that my tap water is perfect for growing almost all plants, even if it is a high light set up I can get away with weekly water changes and top off of a mix from Iron and potassium in water. In some cases weekly water changes alone are enough for beautiful growth.

[Ed13]

I have very little problem with algae in my low tech Discus tank with potted plants. No diatoms at all. I get green spot algae on the bottom, and some very slowly growing green spot on sides, but it's easy to take care of with razor blade scraping every couple of weeks.

I get a bit of staghorn on my alternantha, but, again, some picking at it every week or so keeps it at bay.

I do not fertilize any of the plants (swords, crypts, java ferns and Red Temple).

I have 80 watts of flourescent lighting over a 55 gallon tank. I keep up to 10 adult Discus in this tank, on occasion with the average number at 6.

(It's my grow out tank, so I've had as many as 150 young Discus in it on occasion). Pic, below.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21031&d=1169525257
Perfect example of what I was talking about. Then again there's no gravel to collect excess debris and contribute nutrients and what litte debris and/or nutrients is produced by those beautiful discus is probably contained within the pots were it can quickly absorbed by those Amazons.
It is said that this tank has achieve a balance. If he started dosing nutrients alone there would be an excess for algae so he would have to increase the light. Then he might need to add Co2 in order for the plants to be able synthesize the nutrients and light that have increased.
Its all about the balance, thats what you should be trying to achieve!

[Alight]

One side note here is that I do use the interupted light cycle. 4 hours on in the morning, 4 hours on in the evening--and the tank is in the basement, but still gets quite a bit of light, as this is Park City, Utah, and the south side of the basement is open with several windows.

Phosphates might be the problem, but at 8.4, I'm betting that magnesium or calcium carbonate are the most likely buffering agents.

However, high pH could contribute--the plants I have like lower pH, and maybe yours, too, so they may not grow as well, and algae might grow better at that pH.

Ed, yes, definitely the Discus are the source of the ferts for these plants. I feed mostly Tetra Color bits, which from my test kit readings, gives a nice balance of nitrate to phosphate ratio in the wastes from the fish.

[poconogal]

One side note here is that I do use the interupted light cycle. 4 hours on in the morning, 4 hours on in the evening--and the tank is in the basement, but still gets quite a bit of light, as this is Park City, Utah, and the south side of the basement is open with several windows.

Phosphates might be the problem, but at 8.4, I'm betting that magnesium or calcium carbonate are the most likely buffering agents.

However, high pH could contribute--the plants I have like lower pH, and maybe yours, too, so they may not grow as well, and algae might grow better at that pH.

Ed, yes, definitely the Discus are the source of the ferts for these plants. I feed mostly Tetra Color bits, which from my test kit readings, gives a nice balance of nitrate to phosphate ratio in the wastes from the fish.
I'm going to try the interrupted light cycle. Its definitely not calcium carbonate buffering my water, not with a dkh of 4. Perhaps magnesium. My plants are growing like weeds, I've now got big bushy anubias, my onion plants I cut back about 8 inches per week and a week later they're at the tank top again. I do two 40-50% WCs per week and no ferts at all other than what comes from the Discus, which are 9 five inchers.

[White Worm]

Do you have any cleaners in there Connie? maybe a couple algae eaters? Didnt read you mention any.

[poconogal]

Do you have any cleaners in there Connie? maybe a couple algae eaters? Didnt read you mention any.
Mike, I've got BNs who only want to eat the brown diatom algae. I was thinking of trying Amano Shrimp, but first I'll try the interrupted lights. Also, I have an in-tank UV sterilizer that had a clogged sponge over its intake so it slowed down the flow. I've got that little sponge cleaned up so the UV is back to normal flow and the algae has not reappeared nearly as fast as it had been. I have a new UV sterilizer, a better one, that I plan on installing and I'll see how it goes then. I will also test my tap for phosphate so that I know if my water contains any. Its likely that it does since I am in the mountains. This way, I'll at least be able to rule that out if it does not, though.

[GrillMaster]

The only thing a uv sterilizer is good for is to zap green water. It has been discussed that uv's, although will keep your water crystal clear, will also zap nutrients from the water column on low tech tanks such as iron an magnesium.

UV's are considered a bandaid. IMO should not be used unless absolutely necessary. If you ever need a UV sterilizer, there is an imbalance in your tank that needs to be corrected.

I have been through all the UV stuff. Its sittin in my closet now. :) ;)

Mark

[Timbo]

i agree with bastalker (tho i'm not sure about UV light affecting minerals like iron; I cant see how light would affect (zap?) a mineral...can you provide a reference about this bastalker? i'd be interested to learn about that)

but i've come to the same conclusion as bastalker, UV's are unnecessary for discus. Mine has been sitting in my closet for over a year now too :)

[GrillMaster]

i agree with bastalker (tho i'm not sure about UV light affecting minerals like iron; I cant see how light would affect (zap?) a mineral...can you provide a reference about this bastalker? i'd be interested to learn about that)

but i've come to the same conclusion as bastalker, UV's are unnecessary for discus. Mine has been sitting in my closet for over a year now too :)

Hey Tim...I hope you have some free time!! :D

This thread was an experiment, also has links to scientific data supporting the fact.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/25722-edta-iron-uv-sterilizer-experiment-conclusion.html

Sorry for the hijack poconogal! :o

I have been pondering the UV thing for the last couple of days, and actually had to come out of my planted tank way of thinking. UV's are a great tool in a planted tank to clean up your water in a few days, then discontinue. Use it again if you want your water polished again a couple of months down the road.

It has been discussed that UV's will kill parasites and fungus. Having a plantless BB tank, a UV just might be a very beneficial piece of equipment. Whether it would effect the parasites that discus get on occasion is up for discussion though.

hth
Mark

[hazeldazel]

brown diatom algae is really common with new tanks, especially low light tanks but it will generally clear up over time unless there is excess silicates (from the tap or sand substrate). Luckily catfish and plecos love it and it's easy to wipe off. The green spot algae (the type that's a PITA to scrub off) is from NOT ENOUGH phosphate. I get GSA like mad on the glass unless I dose phosphate, you can use powdered phosphate or just get a Fleet enema at the store (the non-mineral oil kind is just phosphate). Staghorn algae comes from a combination of ammonia and low light. Ammonia and high light will give you Green Water. The plants, ESPECIALLY the sword are nutrient hogs, they will quickly strip the nutrients out of the water until there are just traces left that only simple plants like algae can take advantage. It may be better to put a fertilizer stick (non-urea) into the pot with the sword, they like to feed through the roots anyway. I think(?) Seachem has a fertilizer ball you put in substrate by the roots which would be terrific for you. The UV will destroy some of the chelating ingredients making it difficult for the plants to get iron and some other minerals.

[Timbo]

Mark, thanks very much for bringing that source.

It seems that UV light does not directly affect the mineral iron, but it does affect chelating agents...that are sometimes used in combination with iron. (chelated iron)

if chelated iron is used, the UV can break the chelating agent ability to bind with the mineral (to some extent) allowing the iron to fall out of the water column (precipatate)

that makes more sense to me than UV directly affecting a mineral, which i still dont think it does

[GrillMaster]

Hows the algae treatin ya poconog?

Mark

[poconogal]

Mark, I scrubbed most of the algae out of the tank last weekend and now the algae growth has actually slowed down once I got the sponge over the UV's intake unclogged. (I have an internal UV sterilizer). Today I reset my timer so that I have lights on 4 hrs., lights off 3 hours, then back on again for 5 hours and I made the opening a little smaller on my Eheim feeder so that it dispenses a little less food. I'll see how it goes now.

[GrillMaster]

Connie...The UV wont resend the algae. Balance in the tank will. If you have scrubbed most of the algae off, than it is all good. Dont expect your UV to be the miracle fix cause it wont be. If algae is at bay, its because your tank is balancing out. It has nothing to do with the UV. :)

Any updates?

Mark

[poconogal]

Connie...The UV wont resend the algae. Balance in the tank will. If you have scrubbed most of the algae off, than it is all good. Dont expect your UV to be the miracle fix cause it wont be. If algae is at bay, its because your tank is balancing out. It has nothing to do with the UV. :)

Any updates?

Mark

Mark, I have to disagree now because every single thing I've read emphatically states that a UV sterilizer absolutely will help to control algae by killing algae spores. :) I've been on the internet for hours on end researching UV sterilization now. I learned that the use of UV sterlization for bacteria, parasite and algae control is not new, but has been used for many years already, actually since the 1950s! Many people have ponds where I live and run UV sterilizers to keep their ponds clear. I've also spoken to a bunch of people that began using UV for algae control and shortly thereafter their tanks cleared. So yes, I do believe that my UV does help with algae, maybe not all of it, but some.

I believe I posted that I have an internal UV with a sponge over the intake and didn't realize that I hadn't rinsed the sponge, so it was clogged. That impacted the flow of the sterilizer, I could see it myself. Since I rinsed the sponge, the algae regrowth has slowed down to its former pace, and mostly green spot. BTW, my tank is a new setup, but also not new. I moved my water and fish from my 45 into my 75. My 45 had already been up and running for quite awhile, but I understand that silicates from a new glass tank (my 75) can spark brown diatom algae growth. Also, a week after rinsing my UV's sponge, I went to an interrupted light cycle, 4 hrs. on, 3 hrs. off, 5 hrs. on, and I noticed that the hair algae that was on the plant leaves seems to be disappearing.

My question now is will my few plants, Anubias, Onion Plants and Moss Balls do well with only 9 hours of light per day instead of the 12 I previously had?

[GrillMaster]

Connie the UV will in fact zap algae spores that create green water. It has been discussed that it will also kill some parasites an some bacteria, but it wont prevent BBA, BGA, GSA, Staghorn, hair algae etc...Having crystal clear water will just mean you will be able to see the algae better!! ;)

Also, the slower the water goes thru your UV the better it is.

Yes the plants you mentioned will do fine with 9 hours of light.

I hope it all works out for you, an your tank prospers!! :)

tc
Mark

[Ed13]

Connie the UV will in fact zap algae spores that create green water. It has been discussed that it will also kill some parasites an some bacteria, but it wont prevent BBA, BGA, GSA, Staghorn, hair algae etc...Having crystal clear water will just mean you will be able to see the algae better!! ;)



The UV will also kill strands of algae(hair algae for ex) that pass through it, so that they can't settle on the plants again. And having crystal clear water means more light is available to the plants. The faster the metabolism of the plants the more nutrients they use, less excess of nutrients means less algae. Of course you have to find the balance between light(intensity, volume and duration) CO2 and nutrients