My first post with a problem

[ezeke1]

Hello All,
I'm glad I found this forum community and I hope I can help add to it in the future :)
Unfortunately my first post is regarding a problem. I recently purchased two beautiful golden leopard snakeskin babies (3") and I have a planted tank. They were doing just fine until I became hasty and decided I needed to stir up the 4" gravel bed of flourite to add a new piece of driftwood. That caused a massive dust storm and I performed damaged control by changing nearly 50% of the water. The storm has cleared and since then I did another water change and everything seems back to normal. However during the process I saw that my nitrate jumped to 20ppm.
As it now stands, my baby discus are turning darker. They are eating readily and coming to the front of the tank when I'm around, but I am worried there is still a problem. I'm new to discus so aside from checking the water parms, I am not sure what could be wrong with them. Please help!

Thank you in advance! David

[Tropical Haven]

If your Nitrate is still at 20ppm then do another 50 to 75% water change. The key to keep very low or no Nitrate in your tank is to keep up with water changes. By the way, welcome to the forum.

[poconogal]

Do some more WCs to get your nitrate down and keep a close eye on them. If no improvement, its possible that they may have contracted a bacterial infection from what came out of the gravel bed. Also, if your nitrate jumped up, have you checked your other params... ammonia and nitrite?

[ezeke1]

If your Nitrate is still at 20ppm then do another 50 to 75% water change. The key to keep very low or no Nitrate in your tank is to keep up with water changes. By the way, welcome to the forum.

Thank you for the welcome :)


Do some more WCs to get your nitrate down and keep a close eye on them. If no improvement, its possible that they may have contracted a bacterial infection from what came out of the gravel bed. Also, if your nitrate jumped up, have you checked your other params... ammonia and nitrite?

The fortunate thing is my tank is not that old so I do not think the gravel bed is toxic - age of 2 months max, but it's well cycled.

I will do another water parm check today during lunch and report back. As of 2 days ago, ammonia was 0, nitrate 0, and nitrate at 10ppm.

[poconogal]

Thank you for the welcome :)



The fortunate thing is my tank is not that old so I do not think the gravel bed is toxic - age of 2 months max, but it's well cycled.

I will do another water parm check today during lunch and report back. As of 2 days ago, ammonia was 0, nitrate 0, and nitrate at 10ppm.
Hi. Your gravel bed is probably not toxic, but still, even after 2 months there could be some detritus that got stirred up, and with young Discus especially, they can get sick from that. Even adults can get sick from the same thing. Anyway, hopefully performing some more WCs will solve the problem.

You may have read this elsewhere on the forum, but with baby Discus, a BB tank is best. They require heavy feeding and super clean water (lots of WCs) for good growth. Its much easier to keep a BB tank clean while growing them out. Once they become bigger they can be moved to a decorated/planted tank. Its can be very difficult to grow them out in a planted tank.

Keep us posted, David.

[ezeke1]

Hi. Your gravel bed is probably not toxic, but still, even after 2 months there could be some detritus that got stirred up, and with young Discus especially, they can get sick from that. Even adults can get sick from the same thing. Anyway, hopefully performing some more WCs will solve the problem.

You may have read this elsewhere on the forum, but with baby Discus, a BB tank is best. They require heavy feeding and super clean water (lots of WCs) for good growth. Its much easier to keep a BB tank clean while growing them out. Once they become bigger they can be moved to a decorated/planted tank. Its can be very difficult to grow them out in a planted tank.

Keep us posted, David.

Thank you very much for the input Connie. In hindsight it would of been alot easier if I purchased older discus or kept a bb tank. I'm up for the challenge so will see if I can't grow these babies to their full potential despite this setback :) Of course to accomplish this I will have to do daily wc because there is so much gravel and plants in the tank that it is extremely easy for food to get trapped and left to rot.

During my lunch break, I fed the fish and tested the water. Nitrate sits at approximately 10ppm so I performed a 15% water changed since that was all the time I had for. Tonight I will do another water change and continue to do so until nitrates sit at 0ppm. The only positive signs I see are that the babies are eating well and their fins stay open.

Here is a picture of them just before I stirred the gravel.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/20/newbabiesju5.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newbabiesju5.jpg)

[Tropical Haven]

Nice looking discus, get that Nitrate down and do frequent water changes and they should do better.

[poconogal]

Hi David. Oh they are beautiful. I love those spotteds, they look very different from the usual spots I see. What is the blue/red one? I have one that looks similar, a BD Red Scribbled she was called.

As far as 0 nitrate, that's not necessary, you will always have some just because its the end result of the cycle, but with a planted tank that will help to keep it lower which I'm sure you know. Just keep it as low as possible but don't kill yourself! My tank runs between 10-15 ppm (I don't have a planted tank). I have adults but they're doing just fine.

What I'm wondering about is what made your nitrate jump up? Did you have an ammonia/nitrite spike which would have resulted in nitrates climbing? That's why I asked you to test for that also. Better safe than sorry!

[ezeke1]

Hi David. Oh they are beautiful. I love those spotteds, they look very different from the usual spots I see. What is the blue/red one? I have one that looks similar, a BD Red Scribbled she was called.

As far as 0 nitrate, that's not necessary, you will always have some just because its the end result of the cycle, but with a planted tank that will help to keep it lower which I'm sure you know. Just keep it as low as possible but don't kill yourself! My tank runs between 10-15 ppm (I don't have a planted tank). I have adults but they're doing just fine.

What I'm wondering about is what made your nitrate jump up? Did you have an ammonia/nitrite spike which would have resulted in nitrates climbing? That's why I asked you to test for that also. Better safe than sorry!

Connie, thank you so much for your attention and input :) The red and blue one is a spotted leopard. I think its the snakeskin strain. You should post pics of yours :)

I'm glad to report that the discus are doing better as of tonight. I fed them heavily throughout the evening and performed a wc before the lights went out. The babies seem to love it and they brightened up a bit. The smaller one looks like he got his color back and the larger one brightened up somewhat too. I'm going to continue monitoring them and perhaps do some more wc to keep the uneaten food from settling.

Here are some pics I took before the lights went out. You can see the color difference between the two.

This is the healthier looking one
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1313/healthybabyye7.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=healthybabyye7.jpg)


This is the darker one
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4422/darkbabywu0.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=darkbabywu0.jpg)

Here they are side by side
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/4707/babysidebysidelp2.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=babysidebysidelp2.jpg)

[poconogal]

Glad to hear of improvement. Since WCs are working, it seems that you're having a water quality issue; I'm sure its ammonia or nitrite which then raised your nitrates, since it seems it is a newly cycled tank and the addition of the Discus was recent. Your bio filter has to catch up. If you haven't yet done so, it would be better if you did check for ammonia and nitrite.

BTW, I posted pics of my fish and tank awhile back. You can search for threads by me if you want to see.

[pkcb2]

Welcome David-glad things are getting better.
Any chance your tank is underfiltered? I did not see your tank size or type of filtration in your post. Having gravel, plants, driftwood, etc., as well growing fish (lots of food) can cause spikes in your water params. Need lots of sponge surface area. This is why most here have BBT to grow fish.

If you got the Golden LSS from Sunrise Tropicals, nice choice, wanted a couple of those myself.

[ezeke1]

Welcome David-glad things are getting better.
Any chance your tank is underfiltered? I did not see your tank size or type of filtration in your post. Having gravel, plants, driftwood, etc., as well growing fish (lots of food) can cause spikes in your water params. Need lots of sponge surface area. This is why most here have BBT to grow fish.

If you got the Golden LSS from Sunrise Tropicals, nice choice, wanted a couple of those myself.

Hi Jim,
The golden lss are from sunrise tropicals. Tony was very helpful and his stock is superb.

I should of mentioned my tank size and equipment.

65gal
fluval 305 cannister filter
pressurized CO2
5 discus (between 2.5"-4")
17 tetras (cardinal and whiteclouds)
medium size pleco
and many many plants

I think you (and Connie) bring up a good point about a heavy bioload and how that affects the nitrate,nitrite, and ammonia levels. Perhaps that is what I'm experiencing now because as of this afternoon, my nitrates are still at 5-10ppm. I tested the ammonia level and it doesn't appear detectable but it can be hard to tell with these test kits. Nitrates are 0 for sure.

To be honest, I agree that the bio filter is straining and struggling to keep up with the new fish stock. The golden lss babies were darker again this afternoon so I intend to do another 40% water change tonight after feeding.

Would it be a good idea to add another filter? I was thinking of running two cannister filters.

[poconogal]

Hi David. Extra filtration can never hurt! I'm not familiar with the Fluval 305, but I have 10 adult discus, a BN Pleco and a small school of Cardinals in a 75 gal. tank and run one Rena Filstar XP 3 canister with no problems.

As I understand it, your tank is set up about 2 mos.? Your biofilter is new and you've recenlty added your Discus too? Underfiltration may not be your problem, even though it is possible. Instead it may simply be that your bio filter needs to catch up to the current bio load. Go ahead and add another filter if you'd like, many on the forum use the hydro sponge filters, but you may want to wait and see whether your tank continues to run with zero ammonia and nitrites before doing so. Since you've just done some heavy WCs its hard to tell where things stand as far as ammonia and nitrite right now. Just keep a close eye on your water params and do your WCs as needed.

[sophie68]

Hi David,
Welcome to SD! This is a great place to get help! I was going to tell you that I started with gravel in my tank then decided to remove it all because my water quality was being affected and I could not keep the gravel clean enough. However,your tank is planted so you can't do that. Your fish are splendid BTW!
Not long ago, I had a problem with some nitrites and I used Bio Spira. This stuff is not cheap (but cheaper ordered from the Elmers aquarium website) but it really helped me. Don't worry too much about nitrates. I also have about 10 ppm of nitrates but my fish are getting really big and doing fine. I recently added a big sponge filter and noticed that the fish were significantly happier. The water is also clearer and cleaner. Anyway, good luck with your beautiful fish! Only thing I ever ordered from Sunrise Tropicals was a siphon !!!!!:D

Sophie

[pkcb2]

I'm agree with Connie, sounds like your OK with the filtration, maybe needs a little more time for the biomedia to mature.
I'm not familiar with the fluval 305 either, so can't say if it needs a little help.
Maybe just doing your DWC will be fine for now, sounds like you have a nice setup, I would not want to tear it down.

[poconogal]

Hi David,
Welcome to SD! This is a great place to get help! I was going to tell you that I started with gravel in my tank then decided to remove it all because my water quality was being affected and I could not keep the gravel clean enough. However,your tank is planted so you can't do that. Your fish are splendid BTW!
Not long ago, I had a problem with some nitrites and I used Bio Spira. This stuff is not cheap (but cheaper ordered from the Elmers aquarium website) but it really helped me. Don't worry too much about nitrates. I also have about 10 ppm of nitrates but my fish are getting really big and doing fine. I recently added a big sponge filter and noticed that the fish were significantly happier. The water is also clearer and cleaner. Anyway, good luck with your beautiful fish! Only thing I ever ordered from Sunrise Tropicals was a siphon !!!!!:D

Sophie
:wave: Hi Sophie!

David, what Sophie said is good advice. If your bio does need to catch up to your fish load, you can use Bio Spira, or Stability from Seachem to beef it up and you can use Prime to detoxify ammonia/nitrite/nitrate until your bio filter catches up.

Also, are you dosing with ferts for your plants? I'm not a planted tank person (my plants are potted and I give them nothing but fish poo!) but I know that planted tank people also add ferts to their tank. Any chance you fertilized to heavily?

[ezeke1]

Hi David,
Welcome to SD! This is a great place to get help! I was going to tell you that I started with gravel in my tank then decided to remove it all because my water quality was being affected and I could not keep the gravel clean enough. However,your tank is planted so you can't do that. Your fish are splendid BTW!
Not long ago, I had a problem with some nitrites and I used Bio Spira. This stuff is not cheap (but cheaper ordered from the Elmers aquarium website) but it really helped me. Don't worry too much about nitrates. I also have about 10 ppm of nitrates but my fish are getting really big and doing fine. I recently added a big sponge filter and noticed that the fish were significantly happier. The water is also clearer and cleaner. Anyway, good luck with your beautiful fish! Only thing I ever ordered from Sunrise Tropicals was a siphon !!!!!:D

Sophie

Hi Sophie and thank you for the warm welcome :)

I'm going to look into getting some Bio Spira. Maybe the LFS have some so I'll make some phone calls. Let me do some research on the sponge filter. I'm not sure what that is exactly haha.


:wave: Hi Sophie!

David, what Sophie said is good advice. If your bio does need to catch up to your fish load, you can use Bio Spira, or Stability from Seachem to beef it up and you can use Prime to detoxify ammonia/nitrite/nitrate until your bio filter catches up.

Also, are you dosing with ferts for your plants? I'm not a planted tank person (my plants are potted and I give them nothing but fish poo!) but I know that planted tank people also add ferts to their tank. Any chance you fertilized to heavily?

Connie, ok I'm going to add the bio spira, stability, and prime to my shopping list lol.

One of the golden lss babies is still dark, but he seems to be recovering although not to the extent the other one is. I suspect he may still be sick or his recovery process is longer. But all the discus are eating like pigs and they've become more accustomed to me since I've been showing them so much attention. Right now I'm sticking to a 15% dwc just after their dinner meal and a good hour before the lights go out. I think this is helping but I'm not ruling out that one of the babies may have some infection.

And I currently add seachem excel ferts to my tank in the mornings. It's not heavy dosing however.

[poconogal]

Hi Sophie and thank you for the warm welcome :)

I'm going to look into getting some Bio Spira. Maybe the LFS have some so I'll make some phone calls. Let me do some research on the sponge filter. I'm not sure what that is exactly haha.



Connie, ok I'm going to add the bio spira, stability, and prime to my shopping list lol.

One of the golden lss babies is still dark, but he seems to be recovering although not to the extent the other one is. I suspect he may still be sick or his recovery process is longer. But all the discus are eating like pigs and they've become more accustomed to me since I've been showing them so much attention. Right now I'm sticking to a 15% dwc just after their dinner meal and a good hour before the lights go out. I think this is helping but I'm not ruling out that one of the babies may have some infection.

And I currently add seachem excel ferts to my tank in the mornings. It's not heavy dosing however.

Hi David. You can get Bio Spira or Stability, they both do the same thing, but I actually think Bio Spira may be a better product. If they are all attacking their food and eating like piggies, that's a good sign and it would seem that no one is sick. They sometimes can get dark just due to stress, from the other Discus especially at feeding time, or from your presence, etc. It can lead to something, but not always. I had a BD that turned dark, light, dark, light, along with clamping and unclamping her fins for a few weeks. She ate well, and never was sick. She is now my weekly egg laying female and is paired with my Spotted. I'd just keep a very close eye on her and how well she eats in addition to monitoring your tank water.

[ezeke1]

I went to the lfs and purchased one of these babies for $13.99.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2020/biospirajd6.th.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=biospirajd6.jpg)

It's only the 30gal Bio-Spira pack since I figured my tank doesn't need a fullblown starter pack - nor did I want to pay $26 bucks for the 90gal one.

My daily wc will continue and I hope this biospira helps some. If the golden lss babies don't lighten by the end of the weekend, then I think I will invest in another cannister filter :D

[poconogal]

David, are you new to a planted tank? I see you mentioned adding ferts in the mornings, I assume that's DAILY? I'm not sure that ferts are supposed to be added daily - are they? I'm going to start a thread asking that question out of curiousity.

[ezeke1]

David, are you new to a planted tank? I see you mentioned adding ferts in the mornings, I assume that's DAILY? I'm not sure that ferts are supposed to be added daily - are they? I'm going to start a thread asking that question out of curiousity.

Connie, yes I dose daily. There are several systems for dosing ferts (PPS-Pro, PPS-Classic, Estimated Index) and they all require that ferts are dosed daily. What I use now is the Seachem Flourish Excel macro nutrients solution. The instructions state that we dose a cap full (5ml I think) for 40gals of tank volume and the reason for dosing in the morning is we want to make the nutrients available for the plants before the lights come on.

I don't believe the ferts should affect the water quality as long as I don't overdose.

You know whats funny though. Last night I was actually considering getting a 2nd tank and using that as a BB for the discus. Then I thought about how uninteresting it would be to have discus swimming in an empty tank, but at least they will be alot less stressed and healthier. Let's just say I haven't ruled out the idea just yet :)

[poconogal]

Connie, yes I dose daily. There are several systems for dosing ferts (PPS-Pro, PPS-Classic, Estimated Index) and they all require that ferts are dosed daily. What I use now is the Seachem Flourish Excel macro nutrients solution. The instructions state that we dose a cap full (5ml I think) for 40gals of tank volume and the reason for dosing in the morning is we want to make the nutrients available for the plants before the lights come on.

I don't believe the ferts should affect the water quality as long as I don't overdose.

You know whats funny though. Last night I was actually considering getting a 2nd tank and using that as a BB for the discus. Then I thought about how uninteresting it would be to have discus swimming in an empty tank, but at least they will be alot less stressed and healthier. Let's just say I haven't ruled out the idea just yet :)
David, getting the second tank is actually an excellent idea. It would really help you with growing them out and being healthy, and it would be far easier on you as well. It would also only be for a few months. Once they are older, like sub-adults (or about 4-4.5" SL), they can be placed into the planted show tank. If you have the ability to do so, I strongly urge you to. Many people have done this.

Also, I've gone back to your first post and re-read it. All you added were the two 3" babies? I originally thought you added all of your Discus at the same time. If it was just those two babies, I don't think they'd have had a huge impact on your bio load. If they were adults, yes, but not just 2 babies. Again, keep observing the little darker one - its appetite, just it calmly go for food, or does it attack and gobble the food, does it segregate iself, if it does, where and how (facing back of tank or not, corner, top, bottom), or anything else that is different from the others behaviour.

Another thing - what are they being fed?

I posed the question of ferts to someone whom I consider to be THE plant guy. Waiting to hear what he has to say. His first answer was "it depends." For that he got the hammer! :D

[ezeke1]

David, getting the second tank is actually an excellent idea. It would really help you with growing them out and being healthy, and it would be far easier on you as well. It would also only be for a few months. Once they are older, like sub-adults (or about 4-4.5" SL), they can be placed into the planted show tank. If you have the ability to do so, I strongly urge you to. Many people have done this.

I seriously may do this. I've already poured so much money into the aquarium, a little more wont hurt haha. This will be some food for thought over the next few days for sure.


Also, I've gone back to your first post and re-read it. All you added were the two 3" babies? I originally thought you added all of your Discus at the same time. If it was just those two babies, I don't think they'd have had a huge impact on your bio load. If they were adults, yes, but not just 2 babies. Again, keep observing the little darker one - its appetite, just it calmly go for food, or does it attack and gobble the food, does it segregate iself, if it does, where and how (facing back of tank or not, corner, top, bottom), or anything else that is different from the others behaviour.

Both eat like pigs. The literally swim up to the turkey baster and eat right out of it. I thought about what you said that the discus may turn darker when someone approaches the tank and the coloration is a function of their mood rather than their health. This might be the case but its really hard to tell. They certainly haven't gotten their full coloration back since I got them out of the box but there are moments where they just shine (usually right after the wc) then go back to being dark.


Another thing - what are they being fed?

I posed the question of ferts to someone whom I consider to be THE plant guy. Waiting to hear what he has to say. His first answer was "it depends." For that he got the hammer! :D

Connie, I must say thank you for all your critique and analysis. There's no way I can go wrong raising these babies with your positive directon :) Well last Friday I added 14 card tetras (who are now FAT as can be lol) and the two 3" babies. A week before that I added the 4" spotted leopard and the both of the 2.5" melons.

The addition of so many fish in this short time frame justifies the strain on the bio filter correct?

As far as feeding, their main diet is hikari frozen bloodworms and omega flakes. I'm starting to ween them on some hikari spiralina brine shrimp and hikari frozen beefhearts. They appear to be eating some of both but the bloodworms are their favorite. I have some hikari tropical discus granules and tetra bits in the mail which I hope they will start eating as well. I'm more or less trying to stay away from the BH mixes everyone raves about because if I can't cook for myself, it wouldn't make much sense to cook for the fish :D

p.s. Don't bring the hammer down too hard lol

[poconogal]

Really, for the additional tank you'd only need a heater and a hydro sponge filter for bio filtration. Lots of WCs will take care of your water as far as excess nutrients, etc.

Discus will darken themselves to blend with their surroundings as well. If you have dark substrate, or a dark background, or even a planted tank too (dark greenery), these things will cause them to darken. Just another reason besides stress, illness, etc. It could just be a case of their darkening to blend in with their surroundings. I've seen firsthand how big a difference it can make. I had a tank with black substrate and background. It looked spectacular with my cardinals in there and the Discus. But after about 2 weeks I noticed my BD was so dark I could barely see her - she was navy blue. My other blue/red Discus darkened, and my yellow faced RM, who was 100% spotless when I got her, developed peppering all over her bright yellow head, and her fins got a blackish tint. I got rid of the black, pronto quick.

[White Worm]

Well last Friday I added 14 card tetras (who are now FAT as can be lol) and the two 3" babies. A week before that I added the 4" spotted leopard and the both of the 2.5" melons.

The addition of so many fish in this short time frame justifies the strain on the bio filter correct?


I thought Connie was going to hit on this when she brought up the 2 new additions but I have a few questions that havent been asked. Do you quarantine your fish before you add them to existing stock. What is your process? It sounds like you purchase and add new stock weekly. Did you purchase all of your aquatic life from the same source? Could be just a coincidence that you stirred the gravel at the time when you added new fish. Might be a bug that your previous fish have overcome but the new ones havent been exposed to until now. Just an idea to look at.

[ezeke1]

Really, for the additional tank you'd only need a heater and a hydro sponge filter for bio filtration. Lots of WCs will take care of your water as far as excess nutrients, etc.

Discus will darken themselves to blend with their surroundings as well. If you have dark substrate, or a dark background, or even a planted tank too (dark greenery), these things will cause them to darken. Just another reason besides stress, illness, etc. It could just be a case of their darkening to blend in with their surroundings. I've seen firsthand how big a difference it can make. I had a tank with black substrate and background. It looked spectacular with my cardinals in there and the Discus. But after about 2 weeks I noticed my BD was so dark I could barely see her - she was navy blue. My other blue/red Discus darkened, and my yellow faced RM, who was 100% spotless when I got her, developed peppering all over her bright yellow head, and her fins got a blackish tint. I got rid of the black, pronto quick.

I wonder if you're on to something about the environment being a factor in the discus coloration. I also noticed that my melons were getting peppering on their face since I purchased them. Without the lights on this morning, I saw that the babies were really dark. Maybe you're right and theyre blending in with their surroundings.

I guess it would not be a good idea to get this 72g bowfront since it's all black?

http://www.nanocorals.com/reefcentral/72g2.jpg

[ezeke1]

I thought Connie was going to hit on this when she brought up the 2 new additions but I have a few questions that havent been asked. Do you quarantine your fish before you add them to existing stock. What is your process? It sounds like you purchase and add new stock weekly. Did you purchase all of your aquatic life from the same source? Could be just a coincidence that you stirred the gravel at the time when you added new fish. Might be a bug that your previous fish have overcome but the new ones havent been exposed to until now. Just an idea to look at.

You make a very good point and I am caught red-handed. I did not quarantine the babies because I did not have the tank space. I asked the breeder whether they were healthy and if I need to QT them and they said no. I was hoping to get away with not QTing :(

[amyandlars]

Oh the breeder deserves a slap on the wrist. He needs the hammer.

I would suggest the extra tank then. It doesn't have to be big, but then you can pull out sick ones, or add to your fish population safely.

In the future I would suggest the BB for the babies just for a grow/qt sort of thing. You'll find it's alot easier and faster. You've already handled this challenge, why add another lol.

[poconogal]

I thought Connie was going to hit on this when she brought up the 2 new additions but I have a few questions that havent been asked. Do you quarantine your fish before you add them to existing stock. What is your process? It sounds like you purchase and add new stock weekly. Did you purchase all of your aquatic life from the same source? Could be just a coincidence that you stirred the gravel at the time when you added new fish. Might be a bug that your previous fish have overcome but the new ones havent been exposed to until now. Just an idea to look at.
Mike you are 100% correct. I thought I asked about QT, must have been another thread somewhere :confused:, but David, you should QT, always. That being said, I myself in the distant past have not QTd either, but now I wouldn't dream of not QTing. Still, I don't think your 2 new ones are sick, YET, since they are eating so well. IME when they are starting to develop something, it shows in the way they eat, they start eating without the same gusto. Also, even if you had QTd, if its something your babies have never dealt with, they would be dealing with it once they were out of QT and in the main tank anyway. There are those that use a sacrificial lamb, a runt from the main tank, to put into QT with the newcomers. After 2 weeks, if no one gets sick, its considered safe to add the new ones into the main tank. But unless that's done, its always a crap shoot when adding new Discus to an established Discus tank. I've mixed Discus from different sources with no problems, others have had mega problems and will never mix again.

[poconogal]

Oh, the 72 gal bowfront is a nice setup. If you were to put some Albinos in there or some other Discus that are not pigeon blood based, they'd look beautiful. Otherwise, I'd get that tank and put something else in it, SW fish or Angels or something. Is it reef ready?

[ezeke1]

Oh, the 72 gal bowfront is a nice setup. If you were to put some Albinos in there or some other Discus that are not pigeon blood based, they'd look beautiful. Otherwise, I'd get that tank and put something else in it, SW fish or Angels or something. Is it reef ready?

The tank is reef-ready but I don't think I will get it because it doesn't match my current tank. I've located another 65gal setup that is exactly like my current one and I'm going to bite the bullet and buy it today or tomorrow. As you can see I've been productive making phone calls to the LFS during my lunch break :D

So is it really necessary to go completely barebottom or is 2-3" of fine white sand ok?

[poconogal]

For ease of cleaning with all the heavy feeding you'll be doing, BB. If you want some decoration in there, you can get some Amazon Swords or Anubias plants and put them in some gravel in clay pots, maybe 3. The clay pots should be soaked for about 2 weeks before putting them in your tank, since I've heard that some manufacturers are treating the clay pots with an anti-fungal or anti-mildew thing. It looks pretty nice and takes away the totally bare look. Or else you can get some nice driftwood and attach Anubias and Java Fern to it.

Check out this link:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=50294

and here's a pic of my tank, with potted plants.

[White Worm]

I have used sand and it turned out nice for a while but it will begin to harden and not look so nice after a while. If you use sand, I would use a thin layer just enough to cover the glass.

Heres mine but my discus were older so you may want to grow them in a BB tank for 6 months then move them to a nice show tank.

On page 2 of this thread.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54660&highlight=sand

[sophie68]

Hi Connie and David!!!!!:wave:

I love your tank Connie, BTW!!!!
David, I am happy you got Bio Spira, it's an amazing product which can "re-balance" your water. I always have some in the fridge in case! Going with a BB tank is such a good idea, you won't regret it! It's what I did. I found it empty looking at first but I now love it. I added 2 Swahala driftwood pieces and it looks great. The sponge filters are just sponges that are set on a heavy plastic stand and you connect them to a air pump. After some time, they become full of beneficial bacteria and also filter your water of impurities. My water looks 100% better with one. My sponge filter cost about 9 dollars. I often shop at That Pet Place website because I live in PA and they are fairly close to me. They are also reasonable. That 72 gallon bowfront almost looks like me. It will be perfect. Go for it! I should post a pic of my tank, but I always have trouble resizing them, they are always HUGE!!!!!:D

Sophie