Son of Kahuna (56K warining!!!)

[scolley]

In my old "Saying Hi - Kahuna... " thread, I had a tank that I really loved. But it was one I built myself, made some mistakes in that process, and one afternoon it ruptured. So the "Kahuna" tank is no more. Bummer.

I put all my Discus and plants in big plastic trash cans (with heaters and filters, and what-not), where they remained for 4 or 5 months while I set up a new tank. In the interim I bought some hi-bodied Leopards (bull dog?) discus from Dan V. at Gulf Coast Discus. They went into their own trash can while they waited for the tank to be set up too.

I finally got it set up. The stand is pretty wicked - or at least the stuff in it. Fairly high tech - it pretty much runs itself. All I've got to do is toss in the food. If you want more details on that, please go take a look at Plantedtank.net, where I have a thread with pics. It's also called "Son of Kahuna".

The tank has been up for about 3 weeks now. Here are a few fish pics.

Sorry that there are so many, I couldn't figure out which ones I like the best. And I'm leaving on a 3 week vacation in a few days, so I'm a bit rushed. I hope the tank fares OK, while I'm gone. And I hope you enjoy the pics. Oh, also, they are clickable if you want to see a really big one.



http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_6867_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_6867_edited-1.JPG)

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Thanks for looking. Cheers.

[phidelt85]

This tank makes me wanna start over. Steve, I think it is awesome. Not much else to say. Keep raising that bar up, you're doing great.

Jose

[Greg Richardson]

Now that tank has EVERYTHING going for it.
From the tank to what is in it. Fantasic job!
I'd be very proud of it if I was you!

[scolley]

Jose! Don't say that about starting over! You make me want to stop posting. But I do appreciate the kind words. Thanks! Trying to raise the bar makes the hobby fun! But honest to goodness, mostly I just like having something lovely to look at. And fish and plants together do a good job in that area IMO.

Greg - Wow! Thanks!

Too bad I really don't know much about discus. I'm mean, I'm trying to pay attention to things necesssary to keep them healthy. But all the breeding, genetics, good body confirmation and all that stuff goes "WHOOSH!"... right over my head. I just like 'em if they look nice!

Thanks guys. Makes me glad I took the time to post!

[gg5190]

I like the look of those all glass tanks. It almost seems like the water is just floating there. Great job! If only i could set up a tank that looks half as good, ill be happy!

[tacks]

Hi Steve a very nice job and as you said you will have many hours of enjoyment there. Great set up, some nice open areas and plenty of areas to hide. I was wondering will any of your plants in time grow to te top of the tank or waterlevel.? I dont know to much about discus but yours look great in there, just a nice looking complete package of discus and plants. Enjoy your vacation. Ed

[scolley]

I like the look of those all glass tanks. It almost seems like the water is just floating there. Great job!
That's not glass. It's a plexiglass tank. I LOVE that effect too, and IMO you get it when you lose the canopy. And that illusion is helped if you can minimize the stuff going over the top edges of the tank. Plus, you might note, I left off the trim at the top of the stand. Seeing the tank sitting flat on the stand seems to help that "big cube of water" illusion. Cool huh? It's just those simple little tricks that fool the eye.



Great set up, some nice open areas and plenty of areas to hide. I was wondering will any of your plants in time grow to te top of the tank or waterlevel.?
Thanks Ed. I'm frustrated by those open areas. They were supposed to attract the fish. And the left to right slope was supposed to cause the discus to be in the open water to the left, facing the left - which is where most people in the room will be. And initially it did that perfectly.

But now they seemed to have set up some sort of hierarchy, and each discus has a perferred hiding spot in the plants. So rather than schooling in the open areas for comfort, they retreat to their designated hiding area in the plants.

It's not like they hide all the time. Far from it. And they are all out and in my face every time I come in the room. But they aren't just hanging in the open areas like I want. They are up at the top of the water because "Mr. Food" has come around again.

I'm not sure of any of these plants will break the surface. I wasn't planning on it. If they do, it's my plan to cut them. But it worked OK for the Kahuna. So I might see how it looks first. This aquascape is FAR from finished. I just needed to get the tank up and functional so I could go on vacation. Hardcore aquascaping will come later. Thanks.

[fishmama]

Yeah!!! Steve's baaacckkkk.....and over the top again! Looks fabulous! And I'm sure those guys were happy to get out of the trash cans ;-)

[phidelt85]

Hey, Steve. I've got the same issues as far as hiding Discus. They, however, do the opposite for me. They scatter behind the plant figure out what I'm doing. If they realize, "hey he's got the bag of food, or little red cubes of yum yum" then they slowly come out. I wish they would follow the lead of the rams. They are always front and center when I show up. Partly I think it may be due to my work schedule; they don't have a fixed feeding time.

BTW, please don't even think about stopping posting. It's tanks like yours and Darter's just to mention a couple that make me look at mine and see the potential. I follow your threads with excitement, keep it coming. :D

[scolley]

Thanks Fishmama! But you know what??? I think those fish actually LIKED the trash cans! They were so stuffed with driftwood and plants, that there were massive areas to hide. And they were spawning in there! They may be p*ssed that I took them out. :grin:

phidelt85 - Thanks for pointing out Darter02! Some of his later pics are wonderful. Not a biotope certainly, but definitely a nice looking tank. With nice pics!

[Tropical Haven]

Very nice looking tank, I could sit there and stare at it all day long, fantastic job you did.

[Ed13]

In the interim I bought some hi-bodied Leopards (bull dog?) discus from Dan V. at Gulf Coast Discus. They went into their own trash can while they waited for the tank to be set up too.


This is just too funny Steve!!:D yet they still came out better than most!:confused:

Very nice, this tank should be very impressive once it matures and fills in and of course I know when Steve has some free time he'll make some changes.
Steve I also thought the tank was glass. Many acrylic tank manufacturers recomend not using MH on acrylic tanks, because the temp will expand and contract the material making it brittle and fracturing overtime.
You may not have much trouble since your pendants appear to be high enough, but it may void the warranty on the tank. Just in case you ever have any trouble;), check the warranty!

BTW, any chance the water level can be higher? not while your on vacation though!;)

[Blackwater Aquaria]

Steve: You have done a very nice tank it all balances together. I have afew questions.#1 your substrate is it all sand or do you have a substrate under it.I have done a 125 gal tank planted with swords it did not take to long before the root system just rotted so I did the tank back to a flourite and gravel substrate.#2 you have some great looking anubias plants did you buy them that large or did you grow the out if you did buy them where did you get them.#3 do you use any supplements for the plants lastly what type of filltration do you have again beauty of a tank. Mike from Blackwater Aquaria

[April]

nice tank. what size? and whats mh? i have plexi tanks. so curious..the lights?

[Ed13]

nice tank. what size? and whats mh? i have plexi tanks. so curious..the lights?

MH are metal halide lights
plexiglas is a brand name, cast acrylic is the type we want for aquarium related projects, there are several types of plexi not all are suited for tanks, grow out and breeder tanks should be ok though

[scolley]

swinefka - Thanks Scott! That's very kind!



This is just too funny Steve!!:D yet they still came out better than most!:confused:

Very nice, this tank should be very impressive once it matures and fills in and of course I know when Steve has some free time he'll make some changes.
Steve I also thought the tank was glass. Many acrylic tank manufacturers recomend not using MH on acrylic tanks, because the temp will expand and contract the material making it brittle and fracturing overtime.
You may not have much trouble since your pendants appear to be high enough, but it may void the warranty on the tank. Just in case you ever have any trouble;), check the warranty!

BTW, any chance the water level can be higher? not while your on vacation though!;)
Here's a pic of the top, when the manufacturor was water testing it.

http://www.colley.org/images/DSCF0011_edited-1.jpg

There is nothing right under those lights, so I'm hoping it won't be a problem. Plus it's not under a canopy, so the heat is not trapped with the tank. And the plexiglass is all 3/4" thick. So I hope it'll be OK. But I appreciate the tip!

And that water DOES need to be higher. But with this tank JUST set up (no long term observation) and going away for three weeks in a few days, I'm being conservative. I'll set the water level to right at the top when I return. Good eye!


Steve: You have done a very nice tank it all balances together. I have afew questions.#1 your substrate is it all sand or do you have a substrate under it.I have done a 125 gal tank planted with swords it did not take to long before the root system just rotted so I did the tank back to a flourite and gravel substrate.#2 you have some great looking anubias plants did you buy them that large or did you grow the out if you did buy them where did you get them.#3 do you use any supplements for the plants lastly what type of filltration do you have again beauty of a tank. Mike from Blackwater Aquaria
Most of the details have been covered over at PlantedTank.net, so for more info you might try my thread there (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/47667-son-kahuna.html).

But in short... substrate is sand with the two vals in low plastic pots - pots with ADA Powersand on bottom, filled with ADA Aquasoil, and obviously covered with sand. They are very shallow pots.

Most of those plants have seen better days from my prior tank. But some are new. They all came from Aquariumplants.com - my absolute favorite plant source. I'm ashamed to say that if you click on the pics to get a real close up, you'll see those poor anubias are getting chewed up with GSA. Bummer.

And I daily dose about 10ML of ADA Green Brighty Step 1 for micros, and dose the tank with about 5 ppm Potassium each day with a K2SO4 solution. But PLEASE don't assume my fert regimine is working. The tank just started, and GDA and GSA is beginning with a vengance.

You REALLY need to look at that link I provided to understand the filtration, but in short, I have 3 bulkhead holes in the bottom going to two different filtration loops. One is just an Eheim Pro II. The other is a Poseidon T1 Pump going to an Ocean Clear 340 filter, to 3 Pentair heater modules, a Pentair UV module, then through a Mazzei venturi for CO2 injection, then past my fert injectors. And all that is tied into my auto water changing system that through muliple small changes each night, provides me the equivalent of a 50% water changes every three days.

[scolley]

nice tank. what size? and whats mh? i have plexi tanks. so curious..the lights?Thanks! 180g - 2'x2'x6' . And the lights are Aquamedic 150w HQI, 10,000k. And I replaced the stock magnetic ballasts with the silent AM 150x2 electronic ballast.


MH are metal halide lights
plexiglas is a brand name, cast acrylic is the type we want for aquarium related projects, there are several types of plexi not all are suited for tanks, grow out and breeder tanks should be ok though
You guys got me on the plexi, acrylic, whatever. I'm a newbie, was I using the wrong word?

It was made by KritterProducts (http://www.krittertanks.com/index.htm), so I guess it's acrylic. Sorry!

[April]

ok well mine are truvus. they last quite nicely. but good to know what kind of plexi its meant to be.
anyhow..your tank looks great.

[Darren's Discus]

Now that tank has EVERYTHING going for it.
From the tank to what is in it. Fantasic job!
I'd be very proud of it if I was you!


could not have said it better myself !


awesome

cheers

[brewmaster15]

Steve,
The tank looks great and the fish have grown nicely since I was there last!:)..nice addition of spotteds as well.

When you get back, let me know...I'd love to see it in person again!:)

safe trip,
al

[scolley]

could not have said it better myself ! Awesome

cheers
Thanks! But I want to tell you truly... these are premature accolades. This tank has been up for 3 weeks, and I'M SURE all H*LL's gonna break loose with algae once I step away for my 3 week vacation. Hopefully I'll be able to recover OK. But only time will tell.

On as side note... I go down under not too infrequently. Just spent 6 weeks or so in Sydney. It always MASSIVELY opens my eyes to all the things we DO, and DO NOT have in common. The Sydney Aquarium was AWESOME! Obviously the reef stuff was KILLER. But the planted FW environments were incredibly well done too. That was a very pleasant treat. I was thrilled to see Rainbow fish in their native habitat!

So in the States we have access to all sorts of killer equipment. In APAC you have access to all sorts of killer fish. Damn. Too bad it's so hard to make the two ends meet...


ok well mine are truvus. they last quite nicely. but good to know what kind of plexi its meant to be.
anyhow..your tank looks great.
April, sorry that my incorrect choice of brand name caused a fuss. I'm personally challenged with nouns. Really. I jokingly refer to it as "CRS", or "Can't Remember Sh*t". :D Being old's no picnic...


Steve,
The tank looks great and the fish have grown nicely since I was there last!:)..nice addition of spotteds as well.

When you get back, let me know...I'd love to see it in person again!:)

safe trip,
al
Al, with all due respect, you are no longer welcome in my home. :D That is unless you are staying for dinner. And even then, I might insist you bring your wife... just to bring up the level of charm to the occasion. ;)

Thanks my friend. I'll PM when I return. You can, of course, report honestly on the horror show of algae you see when I return!

[Ed13]

April, sorry that my incorrect choice of brand name caused a fuss. I'm personally challenged with nouns. Really. I jokingly refer to it as "CRS", or "Can't Remember Sh*t". :D Being old's no picnic...


No fuss here steve, I just thought that everyone planning to buy or make aquariums should only use cast acrylic( manufacturing process) extruded acrylic should be avoided at all cost for pressure applications regardless of the brand name Acrylite, Lucite etc
Anyway it got me an extra pic of that really nice tank, which even empty looks nice!

I can't wait until you tweak this setup!

[brewmaster15]

Al, with all due respect, you are no longer welcome in my home. :D That is unless you are staying for dinner. And even then, I might insist you bring your wife... just to bring up the level of charm to the occasion. ;)LOL!!:)

[pcsb23]

Nice Steve, very, very nice.

[scolley]

I can't wait until you tweak this setup!
Thank Ed. It should look better after I have a chance to really aquascape, after I return from vacation. I hope!


LOL!!:)
Al - You knew I was kidding? Right?

I'd be honored to have you review my setup and fish ANY time, under ANY circumstances. Though it would go well with food...


Nice Steve, very, very nice.
Thanks Paul!

[jannima]

Nice tank! very inspiring!

[scolley]

ALGAE!

I got back from my 3 week vacation a couple of days ago, and came home to an algae mess. I had minor trouble with both my CO2 regulator, and my water level sensor (both my fault really), that conspired to keep my tank WAY low on CO2 while I was away. And I was getting a green dust algae (GDA) problem as I was leaving, but when I came back it had bloomed. Big time. The walls of the tank were opaque - solid green.

I think the CO2 goof up aggravated a problem that was happening anyway.

But the fish are doing GREAT! I've got at least 3 pairs laying eggs. When I got back one clutch was sprayed on the tank wall on one side of the tank, and another clutch was working on the opposite side. I cleaned those off when I cleaned the algae, and the next day another pair layed a nice sized clutch on an anubias leaf. So I'm taking this as a sign the fish are happy! :D The fish are clearly eating the eggs, or the tetras. But I'm happy they are happy anyway.

And they look good too! My son - who fed the fish in my absence - shifted their diet of FBW and TCB a bit while I was gone. Since the glass was all green, he was worried about the possibility of feeding too much FBW, since he could not see if they were all getting eaten. So he switched the evening meal to TCB alone, and the fish's colors seem to show it. Especially the reds in the leopards.

When I left the tank was 3 weeks old. Now it's twice that, and the fish seem MUCH more comfortable. Very little hiding. Out and in my face almost all the time now. And they just ACT more comfortable. All swimming is lazy movement, no darting or dashing.

I think it is due to the fact that I've got a number of plants that have grown in, and are floating on the surface, providing shade from the HM lights - a little overhead cover.

Now that I've got the CO2 fixed, and the tank cleaned, I've got to leave again - only for a week. But it means no pics for now. Sorry.

But once I get past this GDA, and have a bit of time, I'll take some new pics. Maybe even have some pics of some wigglers! That would be cool.


PS - Thanks jannima! Thats says a lot coming from you! ;)

[Ed13]

Steve welcome back!
Please let me know how you handle the GDA when you come back.

Last time I battled with it, it almost won:p:mad: really persistent algae

[scolley]

Thanks Ed! I can't claim any miracles yet...

But, as many of you may know, Tom Barr has a lot to say about thick GDA being a "life-cycle" issue. Meaning that often the solution is to let it just run it's natural course (get NASTY thick), and that it will just die away naturally. At the same time, there seems to be little irrefutable proof of this. But the anecdotal evidence abounds...

This whole idea requires letting the GDA fully blossom, and live THICKLY on your tank walls for many weeks, until the life-cycle is complete, and it begins to fall off on it's own. In principle, then it is over.

In my case the crap got wicked thick while I was away and I had no ability to interfere. When I arrived home a full - tank wall encompassing - bloom fully in effect. Not being a patient man (we all have our faults!) I stripped it off as soon as I could.

One day later, I had to leave on the business trip I'm on now. So I can't report on how the GDA is doing. But it is encouraging to note that my wife (not a reliable measure) notes that it does not look any different than the day I left. Now I know this to be incorrect, if for no other reason than the afternoon after the evening I did a major tank wall cleaning, I could see a minor green haze on the tank walls. But that does necessarily mean that what ever is causing this GDA problem is less aggressive now than it was in the past.

Maybe it is because I fixed my CO2 problems that I mentioned in my prior post. Maybe it is because it is a life-cycle issue and I left it grow out enough to not breed too quickly in the future.

Or maybe it is because my wife is not a good reporter of tank conditions, and I will come home soon to algae soup. :D

Only time will tell. :)

[Spices]

STUNNING .... just absolutely stunning! Love this tank of yours, Steve. I can't get enough of your photos of it. :D
Angie

[t_j]

I love your new tank it looks awesome. It definitely puts my tanks to shame!!! Sorry to hear about the algae problem in such a great tank. Good luck with every thing!!!

[scolley]

Thanks Angie! That's just the motivation I needed to take some pics when I get home! If, of course, the algae is under control. If not, I'll wait.

I could clean it up and take pics, but that's just not an honest presentation of a tank IMO. If I take pics, it will either because because I've got the GDA under control, or you'll get pics of algae. :D


t_j, thanks for the compliment. But I'm not discouraged about having GDA. The best people in the field have to fight GDA in immature tanks. If I was doing this right, I'd have aggressively fought it as the tank was establishing itself in the first few weeks. But I had to leave for severl weeks at a a critical time in the start-up of the tank. Not good planninng, but it could not be helped. I'm grateful it's not worse.

GDA's not so bad - goes with the territory. And frankly, if it was easy to have something lovely, I'd find a new hobby. Part of the joy for me is in successfully doing something that is somewhat hard. Otherwise, what's the big deal? So I'm kind of grateful that algae challenges us the way it does. But I DO appreciate your sentiment! Thank you.

Hopefully I can take some new pics over the next few days. Assuming I get a nice, low algae, surprise when I get home!

[scolley]

I've got a few new pics here. I've got tonnes of lotus now. I'm letting them grow to the surface to provide shade for the anubias and moss. They've been there all along, it just took a little while for them to take off.

The GDA algae is not TOO bad now. Seems to be under control. Though I'm not really cleaning it down to the edges of the sand (very often) because of the whole "sand scratching acrylic accidentally while cleaning" thing. My real problem is some BGA that is taking up residence on the sand where the sun hits it. I've upped my KNO3 just in case, and am starting a 5 day Maracyn treatment to kill it fast. I'm scared of that stuff.

But the fish are laying eggs quit a bit, so I assume they are happy. The annubias are rather sad, lots of GSA, and poor growth, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of that. I think it may be due to my ignoring iron. Not a spec has gone into this tank until a couple of days ago. I'm hoping that'll help.

Anyway, I hope you enjot the pics. And BTW - I DID NOT trim, or clean up for these shots. I DID clean a decent amount of GSA off the tank walls a 5 days ago, but that's about it for prep work. This is what the tank is starting to look like, day in and day out.

Thanks for looking! Oh, yeah, they are clickable if you want a look up close at a bigger pic.


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I don't mind saying, the tank is settling in (I'll get past the small algae probs soon), and it's not taking too much work. And the fish seem happy. So it is REALLY turning into a joy to have. Tomorrow is always another day with planted tanks I know - ESPECIALLY planted discus tanks, but right now... I'm happy. :icon_wink

[wolfbane]

Scolley, that tank is so beautiful, it leaves me breathless! Something to aspire to, I seriously wish I'd gone with a long tank instead of a tall.

[phidelt85]

Steve, that is a beatiful tank, aquascape, and discus. You've got to be really proud. Job well done.

[scolley]

Thanks Debbie! Thanks phidelt85.

Truth be told, while these pictures are gainy (I had to boost the ASA to 200 to avoid using a flash), the colors are not just right.

I would swear the discus are bluer, and possibly redder than in real life. I DID run them through Photoshop Express before posting, but the color correction did nothing I could discern. No, they looked a bit bluer and redder right out of the camera. Not a lot. But some.

So I AM proud, and happy. But DO be aware that the colors are not quite as vibrant in real life. But IMO the tank actually looks better. You lose depth of field in these shots. And I've set the outflows to ripple the surface of the water, so in real life you get a lovely "swimming pool" effect. And the lotus leaves create kind of "Jacob's Ladders" like light effect with the HQI lights bursting between the leaves.

It's lovely visually, but I have to keep the rippling surface to a minimum. The "swimming pool" effect does seem to spook the discus if it is too strong. And we do want to keep the fishies happy. :)

[tacks]

Hi Steve tank looks great. Do you ever add any phosphate for the GSA? I am not a beliver in it but as you know Tom Barr is. What levels do you try to keep your Kno3 at? I had a heart attack in May and am not going to Ct.this year butI will get there again and then I can see your tank in person. Take care and keep up the good work. Ed

[scolley]

Hi Steve tank looks great. Do you ever add any phosphate for the GSA? I am not a beliver in it but as you know Tom Barr is. What levels do you try to keep your Kno3 at? I had a heart attack in May and am not going to Ct.this year butI will get there again and then I can see your tank in person. Take care and keep up the good work. Ed

Hey Ed! Please don't croak! OK? If you do, I can't show your the tank. So pls recover, and come up and see me! I'd love to show you.

I know all about Tom's dosing recommendations, and common thought about the relationship between GSA and phosphate levels. I keep my phosphates around 0.8. My tap water has a level very close to that, and my plant's uptake rate, balanced against my frequency of auto water changes, keeps it pretty steady at 0.8.

I can't tell you that my GDA would not go away with higher phospate levels. But I do KNOW that MANY algae problems DO begin to manifest themselves when phosphate levels rise.

Now this will get into a major debate... Tom, or proponents of his thinking, may argue that it's not the phosphate level that is causing that problem, but some other limiting nutrient. Fine. That may be true. But I do know this, hold back the phosphates, and all sorts of pain becomes less likely. Maybe if you are the guru that I am not, you can run with high phosphates with no problem. I can't - not in a lightly planted tank anyway.

I've run with 2-3 ppm phosphates in heavily planted tanks in the past - no problem. But this is a lightly planted tank, and I'm not going there. Nuff said.

As for KNO3... I keep Nitrates at around 8 ppm, and Potassium at about 20 ppm. And I'm pretty sure about Potassium as I'm one of those wacky people that actually sprung for a Potassium test.

Because I dose daily - with automatic dosers, and because I do steady automatic water changes every day, day in and day out, with NO large periodic water changes, these levels are what they are. They do not change day to day... they are steady. The only difference is if I chose to measure at the beginning of the day - after dosing and before uptake, or at the end of the day. All my measurements are after the beginning of the day after dosing. Obviously they fall off as uptake happens each day.

Come seem me buddy!

[pcsb23]

Very nice Steve. Not your average planted tank for sure. I really like the apparent "haphazzard" look. Only way I can think of describing it :o Stunning.

The fish look great too, they look well settled.

[scolley]

Thanks Paul. :) But it really is haphazard! Well somewhat anyway...

My top priority was to get the fish and plants out of the trash cans and into the tank as quickly as possible. I didn't really have the opportunity to aquascape - per se. That is still something that I intend to do AFTER the tank gets fully established. And since the vals are in pots, and the moss and anubias are on driftwood, and the lotus are only in sand, I've got the opportunity to massively rearrange without a huge substrate mess. But I want the tank to get it's legs first.

About the only three things that are "planned" is:

1) The tank having two primary open areas to draw fish - the far left, which is closest to tank viewer, and the middle. The middle open area is smaller and is a secondary gathering spot for fish. This works well.

2) Shade for the anubias and moss by the lotus. Thougt their position is honest-to-goodness haphazard. I just tossed the bulbs in, all toward the back, but they were literally just tossed... just to see what nature provided. Pruning and/or moving to occur later.

3) And putting most of the plants toward the back, so food in front could fall onto the sand.

Beyond that, it is pretty haphazard. :D


I'm not experienced enough with discus to know what "settled" looks like. But they have all definitely established territories, and established patterns...

The Leopards (larger) own the right side of the tank. The smaller Cobalts the left, though obviously the Leopards go where ever they want. Not the same for the Cobalts.

Among the Leopards, one spends most of his/her time hiding in the weeds. And when he comes out - except for feeding, he gets bullied back into his hiding spot.

Among the Cobalts, the largest two have staked out a prime spot for breeding, and hang there most of the time even when they aren't watching eggs.

It's all pretty predictable I suppose. Maybe they are settled.

One thing that has my attention though...

In my old 75g, where I had just the cobalts, about the time the tank sprung a leak, the fish were showing their stress bars less than they do now. I'm not sure what that's about.

They don't appear sick. And I see no bad bullying or anything. But some of the smaller Cobalts do show those bars now - more than they did in my 75g. So something's up. I just don't know what.

Maybe 4 new fish that are 2-3 times their size? I dunno.

[pcsb23]

Steve, you will know your fish better than I, and yes I can see the bars, but they are not in full display. Sometimes backgrounds have a marked effect on how the fish look and react. I believe discus use their bars in the wild as camouflage, most certainly to put off water based predators, much like zebras stripes make it difficult for big cats to judge distance. It is still a newish environment for the fish too. They look ok to me from the pics, fins in normal positions etc. Hopefully its just the environment and nothing more.

I've recently moved my wilds into a tank with a white background, they look like completely different fish now.

[scolley]

Thanks Paul. And I'd like to see how they react to a white background... lightening up I would assume.

One thing that surprised me, as a relative newbie in this hobby, is how rapidly discus change colors. The one that I mentioned that gets bullied into his little spot in the weeds is an example. If you were to look into the tank at most any time, you might assume that I've got a sick fish - hiding, and visibly very dark. But just think about picking up that yellow jar of Tetra Color Bits, and you'll see just how fast a discus can go from dark and hiding, to brilliantly colored and dancing in your face to get some food.

Same with the Cobalts. Darker blue most of the time as they repose in the shade of the lotus leaves. But when they move into the bright MH lights, even if for just a few seconds, they turn light blue.

I never realized just how much they use camouflage, nor now incredibly rapidly they can change color. Maybe indeed the bars are just a part of that same process. It will be interesting to see if it abates as they become even more settled.

[Blackwater Aquaria]

You did a very good job on your set up. Mike

[Darren's Discus]

That is one beautiful planted tank you have their Steve,well done alot of work has gone into it to make it look good.It really brings the colour out in your fish well done !



cheers

[fredyk]

the neons look so natural in this tank, the blues are complimentary, and it looks like a school of minnows with the blue discus. very beautiful

[pcsb23]

Thanks Paul. And I'd like to see how they react to a white background... lightening up I would assume.

Thats what normally happens ime.



One thing that surprised me, as a relative newbie in this hobby, is how rapidly discus change colors. The one that I mentioned that gets bullied into his little spot in the weeds is an example. If you were to look into the tank at most any time, you might assume that I've got a sick fish - hiding, and visibly very dark. But just think about picking up that yellow jar of Tetra Color Bits, and you'll see just how fast a discus can go from dark and hiding, to brilliantly colored and dancing in your face to get some food.

Same with the Cobalts. Darker blue most of the time as they repose in the shade of the lotus leaves. But when they move into the bright MH lights, even if for just a few seconds, they turn light blue.

I never realized just how much they use camouflage, nor now incredibly rapidly they can change color. Maybe indeed the bars are just a part of that same process. It will be interesting to see if it abates as they become even more settled.
I think its a form of communication too, and I agree they can change in a heartbeat, fascinating fish.

[scolley]

You did a very good job on your set up. MikeThanks Mike. It was a royal PITA, but so far I'm happy I went to the trouble!


That is one beautiful planted tank you have their Steve,well done alot of work has gone into it to make it look good.It really brings the colour out in your fish well done ! cheers
Hey! Coming from a sponsor, that's QUITE a compliment. Thanks!


the neons look so natural in this tank, the blues are complimentary, and it looks like a school of minnows with the blue discus. very beautifulThank you. It was a real PITA getting the solid blue tetras (called Green Tetras - go figure), but it seems to be worth the trouble, for just the reason you mentioned. I've got about 50 now, but I hope to get around 100 more soon. But the tank has to get it's legs first. I've got to get past this algae and stabilize it, then I'm gonna make that a BIG school.

Thanks all for the kind words! :o

[loggerbomb]

Well I am rather new here and green to Discus and setting up good planted tanks and what not, but I do believe I have my idol!

From the plumbing, to the inline CO2 and fertilizing, to the shut-off "food" switch to the built in router and everything in between is simply incredible. I really like the router idea. I take it you do a lot of travelling for business and I could imagine how having your tank vitals on hand whenever you want to see them is quite a reassuring feeling - especially after investing all the time, effort and money! (Do you have a $ breakdown of what you invested in that thing?)
I'd only geuss how you would go if you ever went ahead and started breeding Discus!

Keep up the great work!

[scolley]

I take it you do a lot of traveling for business and I could imagine how having your tank vitals on hand whenever you want to see them is quite a reassuring feeling - especially after investing all the time, effort and money! (Do you have a $ breakdown of what you invested in that thing?)

Thanks loggerbomb. I DO travel a lot, and that is my primary motivation for a "high tech" tank. I have to have a tank that can manage itself while I'm away. Now don't get me wrong... I ENJOY the challenge. But it is a necessity for me if I'm going to participate in this hobby.

And, I'm sorry if I burst bubbles here, but I DON'T have the AC Jr set up so that I can remotely manage/view stuff over the INTERNET. I've not bothered to get its traffic past my home's gateway/router.

Why?

Because it does me no good to know something is going wrong while I'm away. I've set the tank up to be STABLE and SELF-SUFFICIENT. To be RELIABLE. And NOT to need ME or MY EFFORT for long periods of time. That is reliable. And knowing I can safely ignore it for significant periods of time is FAR more reassuring than being able to see what's happening.

Not needing to see is better. :D It's just not as cool as remote control over the Internet.

[standoyo]

Amazing looking tank Steve. Can't wait for you to aquascape it to make our eyeballs re-pop! lol.
Fishes look bright eyed and happy!

[scolley]

Amazing looking tank Steve. Can't wait for you to aquascape it to make our eyeballs re-pop! lol.
Fishes look bright eyed and happy!
Thanks Stan! Good to see you!

But what does "bright eyed" mean? I keep seeing it used - or the opposite "dull eyed, or "cloudy eyed" - as an indicator of discus health. What are you looking for in their eyes?

As a general update...

The tank is doing well. The GDA is about gone. Not quite, but it's down to a glass cleaning once a week. And not bad at all then.

I recently had to put a fish down - seemed to be bloat. But I could not be sure. Though the fish I lost - named "football" was one of my smallest, but one of the most voracious eaters. Now feeding is different. Less aggressive. Seems the other fish followed that little fish's lead. And the tank dynamics have changed too. I'm surprised at that. I had 10 fish, now 9. With the 2nd to smallest being gone, I'm really quite surprised to see them all acting a little differently now.

They are definitely less friendly, or maybe a little more skittish. Not much. But a little. I am surprised that the loss of a smaller fish could do that.

I've dumped in 25 more Amano shrimp. And have a few corys and oto cats in quarantine now. With a few more zebra loaches on the way.

I've kind of ignored my clean up crew until now. I'm so paranoid of introducing health problems into my tank, and having to dose with something that's not good for plants.

But I'm doing one big quarantine now, and will get that out of the way. Hopefully without introducing any nasties.

After that the tank should be stable - with regard to introducing new flora or fauna - with the exception of more tetras coming some time. I'm going to wait until this clean up crew stabilizes. And then I'll be looking to bring in either more green neons (if I can FIND them), or a big school of rummy-noses.

[standoyo]

Hi Steve,

Bright eye'd is the opposite of dull I guess! I also looked at the photos and the poses and body language of your discus looks very active. This is a very good sign indeed.

You mentioned their behaviour is different now, I think it's possible there a rearrangement of the hierachy of the school now. When discus are happy they fight too, even when there's lots of food.
Mine see a net and they make haste for the corners but if it's a nice frozen package or their favourite dry bits, they're beggars at the glass. Quite intelligent I think. lol.

[pcsb23]

Hi Steve,

You asked about "Bright Eyed" basically whe looking at their eyes the colour is sharp, clear and bright or vibrant. Also the pupil is dark but looks like a deep pool, sort of mirrored and with a very clearly defined edge.

As for your qt'ing, consider adding your now least favourite discus to the qt tank after say 5 or 6 weeks, if all aprties do well it is likley that they will not introduce any nasties to the planted tank.

[scolley]

Thanks Stan, Paul, for the clarification on "bright eyed". As soon as I get home, I'm going to look to see if I can see it.

Paul - your suggestion about using my least favorite discus as the QT "canary in the coal mine" is a great one. Thanks! But I'm hesitant to do that because of what I'll call the...

PT/QT Conundrum

Many planted tanks have dramatically different water than what is found in non-planted tanks from the same water supply (tap or RO'ed). The differences are generally KH, GH, and pH. If these differences are great enough, you cannot easily move a discus out of a planted tank into a separate tank without going through a time consumings, and stressful (to the fish) acclimatization process.

My QT tank has my tap water in it, while my planted discus tank has that water, but with several degrees difference in both KH and GH, and even worse - a full 1.0 difference in pH. All of those differences are, of course, because I'm manipulating that water parameter for the plants, or in the case of pH... as a by product of CO2 injection.

So that means that to get anything new into the discus tank, I have to acclimate it to the quarantine water (tap), then after quarantine acclimate it to the planted discus tank water. Stressful to be sure - but better to lose a new fish than the existing population.

But if I were to use a discus as my canary, then that poor fish has to go through the stress of being acclimated to the qt water (tap) and then again, back to the PT after QT is over.

I may be stressing over nothing. But it does seem a lot a stress to put a discus through. In fact, it might trigger a response to imported "nasties" that might have otherwise been shaken off by a non-stressed fish. Even worse, if it succumbs after being put back in the planted discus tank - due to the shock of repeated environmental changes - it then might becomes a breeding ground for spreading the nasties to the whole tank.

Am I being paranoid here?

[KJoFan]

Would it be possible to just use water from your planted tank for your QT tank? You'd still be subjecting the new ones to whatever nasties will be in the planted tank but you'd be doing that anyway, or at least that'd be the point of adding the least fave discus. I'd still add that discus to the QT tank though.

You could also do a slow acclimation to your tap water in your QT tank by just adding a bit of tap water to it each water change. That way it'd be a gradual change over time and just reverse the idea for when you want to end the QT period and put them all into the planted tank.

Seems like that would be a less stressful route than trying to acclimate them over a course of a few hours.

[pcsb23]

Hi Steve,

Paranoid? what us discus keepers ;)

Karen's idea of using water form the PT has some merit, likely that the ph in the qt tank will be higher, as in7.something rather than 6.something. Generally speaking this is the least stressful way to go. Provided the conductivity of the water isn't massively different that should be too big an issue either. In the past when I've pulled fish from my PT into other tanks they usually respond very well, and this is always going from higher conductivity (TDS GH&KH) to very much lower. Usually though the ph is not that much different.

It's a judgement call, maybe a better option for you would be to do pre-emptive treatment on the new fish, maybe some external parasite treatment (PP / FMG or similar) first followed by something like panaqcur (gen wormer) in food second.

[scolley]

Before I respond, please don't think - by providing counter arguments - that I'm not appreciate, and respecting, of your responses. I approach my hobby the same way I approach work... I could care less about being right on my first shot. But after we all have had a chance to speak our minds... I'm darned determined to be right (or that we are collectively right) when we are finished. Whew! OK, with that said...


Would it be possible to just use water from your planted tank for your QT tank?
IMO that's a great idea Karen. Thanks.

I think that would work for most planted discus tank keepers - getting us past my PT/QT Conundrum. But it won't really work that well for anyone with significant amounts of pressurized CO2.

Without pressurized CO2 in the QT - and with the contstant aeration in the QT, all the CO2 is going to out-gas - or vent out of the water. When that happens, the pH is going to rise to its normal level. In my case, if I were using tank water for replacement water in my QT, it would mean pouring 6.0 pH water into a 7.0 tank for water changes. Not good.

But it was a good idea. Thanks. It will probably work well for people that don't used pressurized CO2.


In the past when I've pulled fish from my PT into other tanks they usually respond very well, and this is always going from higher conductivity (TDS GH&KH) to very much lower. Usually though the ph is not that much different.

It's a judgment call, maybe a better option for you would be to do pre-emptive treatment on the new fish, maybe some external parasite treatment (PP / FMG or similar) first followed by something like panaqcur (gen wormer) in food second.
Good point Paul. Thanks.

I brought up the GH and KG to demonstrate the complete issue. But you are right, I would be putting the fish in a lower TDS environment - the first time anyway. Going back might be a b*tch though.

That said, my biggest qualm is the pH. I know 1.0 degree isn't the end of the world. But is IS a significant change. Again, just like the TDS, the worst side of it is going back into the tank with the higher TDS and lower pH.

So... I am doing the pre-emptive treatment as you suggest. I'm starting with the parasite treatment - specif illy Rid-Ich_+, an FMG compound. IAnd I tried some jell foods that the Brewmeister recommended. But the fish aren't eating it. So I switched to Jungle Labs Parasite Clear, and internal med that I've heard good things about - from professional fish keepers.

Thanks for the help! Hope I'm not messing up...

[KJoFan]

When that happens, the pH is going to rise to its normal level.

A good point. However, I'm not sure that the off-gassing would occur so rapidly as to cause the pH to rise that rapidly. However, I can't know for certain as I haven't tested the theory or timed it. :)


In my case, if I were using tank water for replacement water in my QT, it would mean pouring 6.0 pH water into a 7.0 tank for water changes. Not good.

Going along with my above statement, if the pH changed gradual enough to allow you to have used my suggestion, the pH would have then leveled out to something similar to your tap water I would imagine. Such that, when you did water changes on your QT tank, you could use straight tap. Then when you were ready to end the QT period, go back to slowly transitioning back to your PT conditions.

I don't know, this all just an "in theory" discussion because I don't have experience with this exact issue. Just thinking out loud. :)

[scolley]

Going along with my above statement, if the pH changed gradual enough to allow you to have used my suggestion, the pH would have then leveled out to something similar to your tap water I would imagine. Such that, when you did water changes on your QT tank, you could use straight tap. Then when you were ready to end the QT period, go back to slowly transitioning back to your PT conditions.
That's a REALLY good point!

In practical application... I could fill the QT with PT water on day one, and put the "canary" discus in it with no problem. I can tell you from experience that by day two, it would have risen up to.75 degrees pH, and would have risen a full degree within 36 hour. But that 36 hours is kind of an automatic acclimatization. Slowly and low stress. THEN I could do a WC with tap, and the only issue is lower TDS, which as Paul mentioned, is not exactly stress inducing.

The other direction gets tricky though. You can't really use tank water to change the QT water. The outgassing will just induce a yo-yo effect on the pH. So there is at least one full aclimatization that has to happen. But that's not NEARLY as bad as two!

Thanks!

[KJoFan]

A full degree of pH change in 36 hours seems easy! When I get new discus I generally have to acclimate them from a 6.5pH to an 8.0. And I can tell you I don't take 36 hours doing it! :)

[GrillMaster]

Wow!.....

Pretty impressive there Steve to say the least! I absolutely luv this setup...Glad I stopped by to take a peek. :)

tc
Mark

[scolley]

Thanks Mark! Coming from you that means a lot!

And here's an tank pic... kinda.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7544_edited-1.jpg

The gods stepped down from Olympus last nite, and came by for a visit. Al was his usual gracious self, and his wife was absolutely charming! In fact, both of our wives were probably put to the test. :D

Put two guys in a room that are passionate about the same hobby, add a little quality scotch, stir well, and you get a very late night! With the guys yacking incessantly about fish. Our poor wives must have been bored to tears. But it was MUCH fun! And Al left me with some really interesting ideas about how to fight my persistent Green Spot Algae problem. And he was able to show me things about my fish that I'd never seen. Once he pointed them out, they were as plain as the nose on my face (which is pretty plain frankly). It just goes to show how little I know about discus, and of course, how sharp an eye Al has for assessing discus.

I'll try to follow up with some tank progress pics soon.

[brewmaster15]

Lol Steve!:D:D:D

I feel like I visited a planted tank God.. ;):) This tank is by far the most complex and well planned tank I have ever seen in person or Print... I can't believe how much thought, planning and invention went into the system..

I have to say, impressed with the tank would be a major understatement! Its a work of art. The perfect blending of plants, Discus, and technology!

The visit last night was absolutely a treat for us.. Lots of conversation, Steve and I talked fish,plants and hobbies for hours on end...and thankfully Maureen and Carrie found plenty to talk about as well.. Great Food , Great Conversation and Great Friends....who could ask for more!:)

-al

[scolley]

Well! Now I AM blushing. :o Thanks Al!

PS - Notice Al was kind enough not to mention that we grilled the food, and ole' Steve-o burned most of it. Really. :D

[standoyo]

Sounds like you guys had a great time. I do find I have to talk plants slowly to a discus crowd vice versa but I really wouldn't know how to deal with somebody who whines 'Why don't you keep pets that you can touch?' lol!!!

[fredyk]

nice picture.

[GrillMaster]

Nice pic Steve!

I can imagine the good time you guys had. :D

tc
Mark

P.S. Love the shirt!

[scolley]

Thanks Stan! I guess we are lucky that we have wives that allow "pets you can't touch"!

Thanks fredyk. Frankly, we were having too much fun jawing about fish to worry overly about the pic. But we tried to get something that would come out. To get a pic that exposed both the people, and the tank well seemed more than my camera could handle, so we compromised on getting a pic of the big plain stuff, rather than the small beautiful fish. :D No offense Al...

Thanks Mark! I LOVE that shirt too! Twas an excellent evening. Maybe next time we can rope you in too!

[scolley]

On a more technical follow-up, it was good to have a detail review of my fish keeping practices by an expert. There were a number of good recommendations by Al that I'm following up on:

1) My practice of keeping the water at 83.5 is not necessary for fully grown fish. 82 will be OK. Cool! One and a half degrees doesn't sound like much, but I'm SURE my plants will appreciate the change. So I'm gonna lower it 1/2 a degree over the next 3 week.

2) Al made a STRONG point for leaving my UV on all the time. Currently I only run it 5 hours a day. The big fear among planted tank people is the it causes problems with the iron - chelation, precipitation - I dunno. I'm no Chemical Engineer. Or Chemist. But it does have a bad rep of causing problems. But on Al's advice I've turned it on full time anyway. As long as I change nothing else - but the temp lowering (which is will only have positive results) - if my plants don't start showing iron deficiency in 4-6 weeks, I'll know that all that worry was for nothing. And who knows, with it on all the time, I may get more clear water, healthier fish... who knows. It will be fun to watch and wait.

3) Al suggested an increased use of my current practice of a "siesta" to cut down on algae. This is a pretty controversial planted tank practice - shutting lights down for an hour or two in the middle of the day to reduce algae. It's all predicated on a belief that higher order plants can switch photosynthesis on much faster than lower order plants - algae. So a break in the light for w while theoretically causes algae be able to use less of the total photo period, than plants that are less bothered by the break on the light.

I can't prove that this works. But I THINK it helps. So I do it. Because it CERTAINLY does not hurt.

So I'm going to tinker with Al's suggestion - have more frequent siestas. Rather than one big one during the middle of the day - have more. I might make them a bit smaller than the 90 minute one I practice mid-day now. But it will be fun to watch the results. Which in this case, will be measured by an decrease, or not, of my GSA and GDA on my anubias and tank walls.

Thanks for the suggestions Al! I look forward to seeing how this all turns out.

[tacks]

Hi Steve a great picture of you and Al. I like Al ideas for the the tank. I have 2 sets of lghs and one set comes on at 9-9 and the other at 5-9. This has heiped a lot with GSA on my anubias, like almost gone. I also have lilly pads on the surface and this diffuses alot of the light. But I am sure these are things you are aware of. Keep up the good work and I also love the shirt. See Ya Ed

[standoyo]

Steve, just wondering... you are the guy on the left or right? :D

[scolley]

Thanks for the tip Ed. Your light setup is what I really wish I had, and am STILL seriously thinking about switching to. Except I'd cut that 9-9 photoperiod back. But I'm glad it works for you. Bottom line though - the ideal setup is "viewing" level setup most of the time, with "growth" level lighting for a few short hours a day.

Stan - just in case you weren't joking... Al's the intellegent looking fellow on the right. I'm the one in the goofy shirt.

[Kindredspirit]

Al's the intellegent looking fellow on the right.


Al, you are too cute in that picture!

[standoyo]

Seriously not joking as I always had an image of you like in your avatar. lol. The shirt's great for partying!

[robust discus]

I notice your tank is made of plexiglass (acrylic) but what thickness is it to retain no distortion over given volume. Is there a way of calculating. Bye the way your set up and achievement is breath taking. Thanx for all those pictures. They are all the best.

[scolley]

I notice your tank is made of plexiglass (acrylic) but what thickness is it to retain no distortion over given volume.
I have no idea how to calculate how thick the acrylic has to be. But I can tell you mine is 3/4" all the way around. So as you've apparently noticed :) , I've got no visible flex or distortion. It was a costly decision, but with the minimal eurobracing around the top, this seemed to be the best way to ensure long-term durability of the tank. Lot's of rumors out there about large, thinner acrylics not standing up well over time - developing cracks, and worse. After my 75g busted in this same room, I went with a "better safe than sorry" approach this time.

Thanks for the kind words.


Standoyo - I picked that avatar because I DO wear a suit most of the time for work. In my professional life I am a "suit". So it fits. Plus I LOVE the fact that the chimp is clearly talking - no doubt expounding on its "great" knowledge and wisdom - without seeming to realize that he's still just a chimp. Somehow fitting, if you asked me... :D


Kindredspirit - Well... I guess we know who's NOT cute too... :o

[scolley]

Well, it's time for the annual Aquatic Gardeners Association (AGA) Aquascaping Contest. The entry deadline is tomorrow, and I've put off until the last possible minute taking pics. I delayed because I was considering getting a better camera (I didn't - I'll wait until next year), and I was letting my tank settle in more.

My tank is not really competitively aquascaped. It's got all kinds of flaws. But it looks nice in person. So I'm entering the contest primarily to help the AGA keep the level of competition up. And also to kind of showcase the fact that you CAN have a decent looking planted tank with discus.

These pics are my rejects - the ones I decided to not use for the contest. But frankly, the ones I am using aren't any better - they just aren't these. And just in case anyone notices, I am also posting this same thing over for my buddies at plantedtank.net to see too.

But I thought I'd share these with you. I'm overdue posting pics, so I hope you enjoy. :)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7617_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7617_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7618_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7618_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7675_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7675_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7717_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7717_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7729_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7729_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7843_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7843_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7851_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7851_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7866_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7866_edited-1.JPG)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7867_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7867_edited-1.JPG)


Cheers!

[midazolam]

is the big fish in your first two pics the leopard from Dan?

Everything looks sweeeeet.

[GrillMaster]

Steve!!!!

Ya have ta be proud of that tank!:thumbsup:

I see yer fish, while havin to endure the trash can for awhile, are just lovely!!

Ta think you built a 75G from ground up, and to struggle through the time it flooded your living room when it broke. All the trials an tribulations from the ground up. Through the years...

Steve you have taught alot of people alot of things!

Hats off to you bud! Good luck with AGA, an a toast to all the friends at SD an TPT!!

tc
Mark

[tacks]

Hi Steve it is great that you are entering the contest. Win lose or draw what matters is that you are proud of your work and the effort you put into it. I think all of us do the best we can with are tanks and are very proud of them. Yes some are better than others and that is the way it goes but we all keep trying to better them. I hope you do well in the contest and keep up the good work Ed

[brewmaster15]

Best of Luck My friend! Be proud either way win or lose... Having seen it in person...That tank is a winner in my book!!:)

Too bad planted tanks aren't judged by whats under the cabinet as well as above...I know you'd score big there just on the technical side of things.:)

take care,
al

[fishmama]

Wow Steve...it looks amazing! All the plants are so lush and full. And kudos to you for entering the contest...they are so, so tough. I wouldn't have the heart to take any criticism after all the work you have put into this.

The discus are looking great as well! Keep up the good work.

[scolley]

is the big fish in your first two pics the leopard from Dan?
Thanks! Yes, those are high-bodied Leopards from Dan at Gulf Coast Discus! I got four. Two have spawned for me on multiple days (including yesterday!) when I was taking these pics.

Actually one of the pics showed some Cobalt spawning too. I had LOTs of fish all dark and horney just when I HAD to take pictures. Bad timing.


Ta think you built a 75G from ground up, and to struggle through the time it flooded your living room when it broke. All the trials an tribulations from the ground up. Through the years...Thanks Mark. It HAS been a major learning experience. If I exclude my lame aquarium experience as a pre-teen, I figure I'm just under 4 years into the hobby now. And boy-oh-boy, have I learned a lot. And next to the people around here that have been doing this for decades - got a lot of learning still to go. But it is nice to have something to show for your effort!


Hi Steve it is great that you are entering the contest. Win lose or draw what matters is that you are proud of your work and the effort you put into it.Thanks Ed. IMO the competition is good for the hobby. I USED to be really into trying to aquascape. And I think I could still do OK. Maybe not win, but do much better than this tank.

But having a competitive aquascape means hours-and-hours-and-hours of work on a regular basis. And having crap in the tank that you have to pull out for photographs. And - if you want a competitive discus aquascape - you need a much larger tank.

But this 180 is as big as this wallet can go. And I want discus. And I don't pull anything out, or turn anything on/off for pics. The pics you see is how the tank looks all the time - Al can vouch for that.

And BEST OF ALL, I only spend about 45 minutes a week in maintenance. AND frequently I'm gone all week. THAT in and of itself has a higher value to me than having a winning aquascape.

I hope that doesn't sound like sour grapes...


Best of Luck My friend! Be proud either way win or lose... Having seen it in person...That tank is a winner in my book!!:)

Too bad planted tanks aren't judged by whats under the cabinet as well as above...Thanks Al. I wasn't in the room the other day when you came over and first saw the tank. But my son tells me that the first words out of your mouth was "Wow... "

For me, THAT makes it all worth it. Having something in my home that causes people to react that way when they see it. THANKS for doing that! Makes it all worth it...

As for the technology ("Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! The great and powerful Oz... "), I need to clean that up a bit and post some pics of that I suppose. But THAT's gonna be a lot of work. Creating a diagram to explain it will take just a LITTLE time. :D That's why I'm procrastinating on that one...


Wow Steve...it looks amazing! All the plants are so lush and full. And kudos to you for entering the contest...they are so, so tough. I wouldn't have the heart to take any criticism after all the work you have put into this.Thanks fishmama! Knowing it's gonna be tough is an understatement. You should go look at my entry from last year - that tank wasn't ready either. It too was only up since june/july, and immature. But again I entered to help the contest/hobby.

One of the judges - who will remain nameless - was known to be strongly biased against discus in planted tanks. I've got it on good report that that person has stated unequivocally that "discus have no place in planted tanks". If you go read the judges comments, maybe you can figure out who that was.

Frankly, such a person should either pull themselves from judging, or AGA should post a "no discus" rule or guideline. But to allow a judge that is always going to ding people for discus is just wrong.

Yet still I enter. ;)

It's good for the hobby, and it gets the word out that discus and planted tanks are not incompatible. You guys know that, but "the word on the street" is a little different. It's time we change that. :)

Thanks all, for the kind words!

[standoyo]

Ohhhh Steve, you set the bar so high! sigh. The only way I can pull something like that off is if I grow everything nicely then slip in the discus as temporary 'models' lol.

[blue acara]

Scolley this is a good planted tank by anyones standards. Them Discus look beautiful to me also. The aga contest is kind of another level, the tanks there really are 'art' more than just fish/plant tanks. Your tank is beautiful and in person i know would show better- Be proud your tank is amazing!

[scolley]

Ohhhh Steve, you set the bar so high! sigh. The only way I can pull something like that off is if I grow everything nicely then slip in the discus as temporary 'models' lol.LOL Stan! Why didn't I think of that! That is too funny.



Scolley this is a good planted tank by anyones standards. Them Discus look beautiful to me also. The aga contest is kind of another level, the tanks there really are 'art' more than just fish/plant tanks. Your tank is beautiful and in person i know would show better- Be proud your tank is amazing!You are RIGHT on target with the art vs. fish/plant tanks. And I can do the art too - or at least I used to be able to with bonsai, an art form that uses a lot of common design principles. But I've decided to make this nice looking in person, and easy to maintain, while knowing full well that this messes up the "art". For example, the sword plants are poorly placed for an aquascape. But they are perfectly placed to cover up my inflows. Same goes for the driftwood placement - they cover my outflows. And the moss REALLY needs shaping - especially where it obscures the lovely driftwood "legs" poking into the sand. But that's too much work.

I hope it doesn't look like I'm being falsely modest. Planted tanks are my hobby, and I know this one to be proud of. But it is definitely lacking as an artful aquascape.

And you are right about the in person thing - it looks much better in person (IMO) than in pictures. But then that's true with MANY people's planted tanks.



PS - In the interest of full disclosure... my discus are NOT that colorful. The camera's white balance pushed those a bit, and my Photoshop Elements tool did not fix it with the "auto correct" function. And hitting that "auto correct" button is about the limit of my Photoshop skills!

[Dolphin Dip]

i saw your tank in the aga contest... [i didn't realize it was yours until now] excellent job! your tank was the only one that actually catered to the discus' comfort.

[scolley]

Thanks for the kind words!

Frankly I never thought I had a chance with the aquascape. It is just not artful enough to get any real respect. And that's fine. And fair.

I entered because I thought it was important to demonstrate that while it may not be as "artistic" a good planted tank could be, it might demonstrate that you can still have a rather nice looking planted tank, with healthy, happy, discus in it.

Maybe next year I'll have the plants groomed to be sufficiently artistic. For now I'm just happy to have demonstrated publicly that discus/plants/lovely-to-view are not mutually exclusive.

Thanks again for the kind words - Steve

[scolley]

I'm still having fun with this tank, and working through my same old algae problems that I've mentioned previously - GDA on acrylic, and GDA on glass. And it is a little worse than it would be normally - worse than before - because I'm doing some experimentation what supposedly standard levels of ferts.

I'm busy working on debunking myths, at the cost of increased alge. For instance, ADA on glass is supposed to dissapear once you start keeping your phospated up around 2.5 ppm and more. Well I'm in the process of proving (to myself anyway) that that is a crock.

When you only have one tank, you have to experiment with that one. Bummer.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I'm considering the major souce of algae in planted tanks - ammonia. And what could reduce ammonia more than anything? Why fewer big fish (discus) of course.

Currently I've got 9 5-7" dicus in a 160g tank. That plus a ton of tetras and good cleaning crew.

I'm thinking about taking the tank back to a single breeding pair. I have several.

Any thoughts on that? Will a single breeding pair behave themselves together in a planted tank?

I don't know. I'm really a discus newb.

Thanks in advance.

[standoyo]

Hi Steve, I'm of the opinion 2 pairs would be a better option than just one four your size tank.

[Pair one: 'Hiya neighbour!' Pair 2 replies 'You want some sugar or watch Desperate Housewives together?] :D:D:D



working on debunking myths, at the cost of increased alge. For instance, GDA on glass is supposed to dissapear once you start keeping your phospated up around 2.5 ppm and more. Well I'm in the process of proving (to myself anyway) that that is a crock.

Comparing results- I would say that's quite true. lol. No offence to others who believe otherwise but I believe the cause is the increased stickiness index! [self coined term for water that's got more stuff in it that allows algae to stick on hardware, plant etc.

[tacks]

Hi Steve and happy Thanksgiving. I will also agree with you on the phosphate statement. I never had good luck with adding any. I am from the old school so I belive the less in the water the better, so I use a lot of fert sticks in the substrate. I also feel lighting is a major cause of algae and that means to much light for to long a period of time. I am sure I am not tellingyou anythng you dont know here. I cant give you a answer to the number of discus because I am new also to discus but it would seem to make sense if you lower the load in the tank. Congrats on your tank and keep up the good work Ed

[pcsb23]

I'll watch the outcome of the experiment on algae control with some interest. I am not convinced that increasing PO4 is the way to go to solve it, all I can see is that will unbalance the tank.

Now for this off the wall idea about reducing the number of discus :) From my own personal experiences I would say don't do it. If you are going to do it then it should, imo, be a singleton pair. 4 discus is usually a recipe for disaster as sooner or later they will pick on each other then on one and that is when probs arise. You already have a very low number of discus for the tank size, 9 in a 160 is spacious. If you feel you have to reduce numbers then maybe lose 2, max 4.

But isn't the main purpose of this tank to keep discus? I don't get the logic this time Steve, but that could just be me :o

[scolley]

But isn't the main purpose of this tank to keep discus? I don't get the logic this time Steve, but that could just be me :oThanks Stan, Ed, Paul...

It's Thanksgiving morning (Happy Thanksgiving!), so I don't have much time for a reply. But I did want to answer the above...

I suppose my thinking is...

1) I have one really nice breeding pair that I'd really enjoy trying to breed (I have a custom built partition that I'm dying to use - to keep other critters away).
2) I'd love to get a lot more neons - I'm hessitant to do that with all the discus - too much biopressure. I think a REALLY big school would look cool.
3) I don't have a "purpose" per se. Clearly I don't have a species tank. as so many people here do. That's not my bag.
4) I'm unhappy with having a lot of discus. I WANTED a tank with as many as I could hold, but IMO it's not working. Not because of algae (when I'm not experimenting, that's controllable). It's because I wanted a tank full of similar looking spectacular looking discus, and these AREN'T it. In a tank full of plants they show stress bars - I hate that. And some are just not great discus. And I've not found a source were I can get 8-10 world-class discus (in a variation that won't show stress bars). So if I can't have that, I thought my best looking pair would look nice.

Sorry for the long post. But that's the thinking.

Thanks.

[pcsb23]

No probs Steve, no need to apologise either!

If the pair work out then there should be no problems in the future, if they don't one will end up dying.

I know what you mean about having spectacular discus, every time I look at my fish I want a better quality. And I also understand the diversity aspect. I guess I centre everything around the discus and come at it from that angle, other may not :D

Funny thing is seeing the stress bars to me isn't something that bothers me in a planted tank. It's quite natural and with wild discus you will see them. I know yours are not wilds. Having a single strain of barless discus would look pretty cool though :)

Personally I prefer cards to neons, but I still like neons.

Good luck which ever way you choose to go. Happy Thanksgiving too!

[GrillMaster]

Happy Thanksgiving Steve!

This is just my opinion. Your heavily planted 160G with the 9 discus in it provide a comfort level for your breeding pairs. Take 7 of them away and that comfort level might disappear. As Paul said, it might work, it might not. Ultimately you might be left with one.

I have read that the P04 test kits are the most inaccurate of them all. I considered the source pretty reliable. I do test every once in awhile. The test shows I have .5 mg/L from the tap, and 5 mg/L in my tank. Although I dont have GSA on the front an sides. I did have it on the back. I just left it there since it was a pain to get to an clean.

I have overloaded my 75G IMO with 7 Angels, 8 rummy noses, 8 congo tetras, 4 clowns, an a couple of SAE's. I also feed heavy. Now the algae on the back glass has disappeared. This IMO is with the heavy feeding an the high bio in the tank, I imagine that this has elevated the P04. Is my test in fact accurate? I dont know. The fish an plants are happy. All I add for ferts is Flourish excell an iron. I also add plantex a couple times a week. I have close to 3 WPG over the tank though I have raised it to 10" above the tank from 5".

The P04 levels just might have merit in my case. I dont do 50% WC's in the tank every week (also an experiment). I do however add about 3" of water each week for evaporation. I have quite alot of swords , anubias and moss. Not quite the P04 sponges for sure.

I will definately be interested to see if you can defeat the GDA without raising the P04 levels.

tc
Mark

[standoyo]

Steve, I think your tank is a great size for keeping a school of wilds. I'm gravitating towards heckel crosses. Those blue moon Nhamuda and blue face heckels are really nice IMHO. [they also cost the moon!] I think i'm going to settle for Red Spotted Greens or some Alenquers. [Curiperas would be the ulitmate and also the most expensive!]

If you prefer stress barless types would mean domestics-blue diamonds/ocean greens or others?

As for breeding, the situation would not be good if you add green neons. These guys will give the parents quite a job to protect the fry.

[scolley]

If the pair work out then there should be no problems in the future, if they don't one will end up dying.Thanks! That's what I wanted to confirm.


Having a single strain of barless discus would look pretty cool.

Personally I prefer cards to neons, but I still like neons.
I would LOVE that singgle, barless strain, but they all have to be truely wonderful fish - every one. That's my problem.

And I should have been more specific, those are not "neons' per se, they are "green neons", an all blue type.


I have read that the P04 test kits are the most inaccurate of them all. I considered the source pretty reliable. I do test every once in awhile. The test shows I have .5 mg/L from the tap, and 5 mg/L in my tank. Although I dont have GSA on the front an sides. I did have it on the back. I just left it there since it was a pain to get to an clean.

I have overloaded my 75G IMO with 7 Angels, 8 rummy noses, 8 congo tetras, 4 clowns, an a couple of SAE's. I also feed heavy. Now the algae on the back glass has disappeared. There a a lot of people that belive the high PO4 gets rid of GDA Mark, and you have provided more evidence. But it's only evidence, and I've never seen PROOF.

You are right about the test kits. But I've got a very accurate LaMotte, and I back it up with your typical hobbyist kit. When they both read the same thing, I'm willing to accept the result. That bing the case, I've spent weeks with my PO4 in the 2.5 to 3.0 range, and it only made all forms of algae worse. Like I knew it would. Everything esle is fine. I've got a whole slew of LaMotte kits, and when your plants are growing, with tons of pearling every day, they aren't starving. And boosted levels of PO4 is not making the GDA go away - quite the opposite in fact.


If you prefer stress barless types would mean domestics-blue diamonds/ocean greens or others?

As for breeding, the situation would not be good if you add green neons. These guys will give the parents quite a job to protect the fry.Blue Diamonds would be good indeed! I just have to find a large number of darn near perfect, already grown out fish. :(

As for the green neons, I'm not worried about that. They are bigger than the holes in the barrier I've got to partition off the fish. And they school great. So if I had a breeding pair, all I need to do is feed the neons on the opposite side of the tank from the eggs. I guarentee you, almost every neon will be over by that food when I slip the partition into the tank. ;)

[standoyo]

Sounds like a nifty device to keep the green neons out. :D

IMHO it should not be hard to get near perfect blue diamonds nowadays. I see quite a few types in the sponsor's section that would complement your tank nicely.

I'm already going ahead with my tank scaped for discus but I'm going to let them stay for 2 weeks max! lol. Maybe more. See how it goes. I can't decide on the strain. Should be natural yet outstanding. Quite a bummer to decide. 8-10 pancakes...

I've tried breeding last time in a planted tank but it was a small 2'X2'ht X1.5'dp tank. The lampeyes were quite murderous. Nothing I can do to stop that unfortunately without taking all of the other fishes out.

[gernhofer]

awesome tank!

what are you using as a substrate?

[scolley]

The lampeyes were quite murderous.I have no idea what you are talking about Stan. But I'd like to know, as it sounds important in trying to breed/raise in a planted tank.


what are you using as a substrate?Thanks. No substrate, just stuff stuck in sand or growing on driftwood. The exception is the jungle vals and a few crypts growing in shallow pots of Aquasoil and Powersand.

[gernhofer]

I am fairly new to keeping planted tanks, you obviously are not. Are there any books out there on keeping planted tanks that you think I could benefit from reading?

Thanks!

[scolley]

I think I have almost every planted tank book still in publication in the English language (I am missing one...), and none of them provide comprehensive information for a planted tank newbie. But you should look for:

Aquarium Plants Manual by Scheurmann
Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock

And though it only has one chapter on planted tanks, Jeff and Mike Senske's book:

The Inspired Aquarium

has great pics of what a planted discus tank can look like, and provide a little treatment of planted discus tanks.

Other than that, you should read and believe everything you read (with regard to planted tanks) at Rex Grigg's website. Goggle that name.

[GrillMaster]

Steve...I think I am probably mixin apples with oranges here. I on one hand have a low tech fert when I feel like it tank, an you have the ultimate 160G planted discus tank.

Its one thing to just let a tank do its thing, an another to get the tank that you have.

I believe it is night an day in regards to P04 levels an what it will do to 2 entirely different tanks!

I just wanted to explain whats goin on in the tank I have. If it has merit then great, if not, i will be eagerly awaiting your results. :)

tc
Mark

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Hi Steve,
The tank looks great.
As far as a group of adult barless perfect discus is hard to come by. Breeders usually keeps some discus into adulthood for the purpose of breeding. These are usually less than perfect as long as they carry the genetics. Sometimes I get lucky and bring in some nice quality adults but these usually comes with a nice price tag. I bring in whatever i can find for the aquarium installers and usually there's no consistancy on the quality and most are leftovers. Large group of quality adults are hard to come by. Your best bet is to grow out the strain you like. Buy extras of what you intend to have because a few will end up culls in the end. Let me know exactly what you want and I can look for them for you. I can forward the pics and cost to you before you make a decision.

[standoyo]

Hmmm, sorry Steve, I meant those lamp-eye killies[small but nasty], were hunting the free swimming fry of the discus that I had last time.:o

[scolley]

I believe it is night an day in regards to P04 levels an what it will do to 2 entirely different tanks!
Mark, please don't get me wrong. I appreciate the feedback. Thank you! But you are right about how similar conditions - PO4 or otherwise - will manifest themselves in differently in different planted tank conditions. And that, I think, it where my frusteration lies.

Conventional wisdom says "More PO4, less GSA". And there are lot's of people who's experience "seems" to confirm that. But I've never seen any type of real conclusive evidence that it is true - and have seen lot's of examples where it also appears to not be true. Like my tank.

I suspect that we will find - just as you aluded to about differing tanks - that the conventional wisdom about PO4/GSA relationships "CAN" old true, but is not always true, due to factors that we have yet to figure out. I'd just like to know NOW. Bummer.

Thanks for the post though.



Large group of quality adults are hard to come by. Your best bet is to grow out the strain you like. Buy extras of what you intend to have because a few will end up culls in the end.Thanks Dan! Any complent from someone highly involved in "Senske" tanks is a compliment that I relish. Thank you.

As for your advice, it is ABSOLUTELY what I am finding. I am seeking something that is not really available to the hobbiest - short of what you are suggesting. Bummer.

However, two of those lovely high-bodied Leopards you sold me are the one pair that I WOULD keep - if I were going to cut back to a single pair. They are SPECTACULAR IMO, and could be the crowning jewels in a 2-discus, planted, community tank. ;)



...those lamp-eye killies[small but nasty], were hunting the free swimming fry...
Thanks for clarifying Stan. I'm sure they are no different - in that regard - to what my Green Neons would prove to be if given the chance! Everybody likes a tasty snack.

[Silent Running]

Wow, Steve, your tank looks fantastic!!! Keep up the great work! What kind of substrate are you using?

[scolley]

Thanks SR. It doesn't really look quite as good as the pics at the moment, as I'm working through a GDA and GSA algae problem. But frankly, those are not the "bad" algae's to it's not such a big deal. But I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and it really bothers me...

All of the anubias varities and moss you see are tied to driftwood. No substrate at all. The two large vals are in shallow pots of ADA Powersand and Aquasoil, as are a couple fo the crypts. The rest of the crypts, and the lotus, are all just pushed down in the sand. I would call it "plain old sand", but it's not. I had a bad experience in the past with pool sand, an uncontrollable algae explosion of a variety that is often linked with excess silica (sand, or sand dust), so out of fear I sprung for a more pricy ADA equivilent - Brightsand.

[Silent Running]

Thanks for the info Steve. I really like the light look of it. I've had the eco-complete in my tank since the beginning and your tank really has me thinking about swapping out for something lighter. It's nice to see what the light sand looks like with a dark background. It's ADA, so I'm assuming a higher $, but is the brightsand beneficial to plants as well?

Paul

[scolley]

but is the brightsand beneficial to plants as well?
It's expensive, realistic looking, low-silica dust sand. But from a nutrient perspective, I think it's about as nutritious as a bite of air. It's just sand.

ADA does not use it as a substrate - just a bottom cover where there are no plants.

[Silent Running]

Gotcha. Thanks!

[scolley]

You can see these out in the AGA 2007 Aquascaping contest pages. And I encourage you to go look there at the MANY wonderful entries. These were mine. Not a good aquascape to be sure. Just a planted discus tank really.

And as you look at them, I have to remind you it's not as nice now. The GDA/GSA is killing me. Maybe I'll post some pics of that too. :icon_eek:

But these are at least pics of the tank at it's best. As usual clicking brings up a bigger pic.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7758_edited-3-smaller.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7758_edited-3.jpg)



http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7799_edited-3-smaller.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7799_edited-3.jpg)



http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7765_edited-3-smaller.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7765_edited-3.jpg)



http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7714_edited-4-smaller.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7714_edited-3.jpg)



http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7737_edited-3-smaller.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_7737_edited-3.jpg)


In the interest of full disclosure, this is another one of my "double posts". Since this is really about both plants and discus, I've also posted over at "Planted".

[Silent Running]

Not a good aquascape to be sure. Just a planted discus tank really.
I'm sorry, I'm going to have to disagree completely with you here. :) Your tank and aquascape are beautiful! I really love the center island look.

[pcsb23]

...These were mine. Not a good aquascape to be sure. Just a planted discus tank really...
You are too modest Steve. Might not be a "formal" 'scape but it is a wonderful example of what can be done. JMHO.

[scolley]

Thanks guys. You are too kind.

Paul - It is definately not formal. But I won't make apologies for that. I never wanted a formal (Dutch) aquascape in this tank. But I did intend to have one that looked more ordered.

The center focus, open left design was contrived for practical reasons - obscuring inflow, and keeping the discus to primarily in the left side of the tank which is closer to the center of the room, and most viewers. That has worked well.

But IMO it WOULD look better if I had been able to execute my original plans. I had wanted the driftwood to be more visible - less covered with the huge hunks of moss, and crawling with anubias. And I had intended to have the bottom 6" of the driftwood completely exposed - allowing the viewer to see completely under the plantmass, looking like roots extending into the sand. That did not work out.

The nasty GSA that I've been battling has forced continual trimming of anubias leaves. And to get addition biomass in the tank to help fight the algae, I've introduced the crypts, and let the moss grow out of control.

And it hasn't worked really. So I'm gonna get this GSA under control if it kills me. Then I'm gonna seriously modify this aquascape.

But I do appreciate the comps. I have indeed tried to make the best of a problem situation. :o

[aquagal]

Where did you get the "brightsand" you used in the tank?

[Dolphin Dip]

The nasty GSA that I've been battling has forced continual trimming of anubias leaves. And to get addition biomass in the tank to help fight the algae, I've introduced the crypts, and let the moss grow out of control.

And it hasn't worked really. So I'm gonna get this GSA under control if it kills me. Then I'm gonna seriously modify this aquascape.


i honestly think this tank looks AWSOME, as is.
i bought some ottos called pitbull otocinclus. my wholesaler only gets them once in a great while but the little guys look like little gold nugget plecos. and they absolutely manhandle mature greenspot.

not sure if that intrests you but i thought i'd share. just two of them scrubbed my 40g for me overnight.

[marnold]

wow this really gives me something to shoot for!I've had planted tanks for years but am nowing going to try discus as well.Great work very informative!

[Discus.Lover]

amazing tank...i love it..

where did you get that sand from?

[scolley]

Where did you get the "brightsand" you used in the tank?That is AGA Bright Sand. You can get it at ADG (http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com). But it ain't cheap. My understanding is that it is river sand, harvested in Japan.

Many people use pool sand sucessfully, but I've had some algae problems in the past where I believed the root of my problem was the silicates released from ordinary pool sand. I was hoping this would free me from that. But I'm having some less serious - but fusterating - algae problems with this too, with agae clumps growing right on the sand.


i bought some ottos called pitbull otocinclus. my wholesaler only gets them once in a great while but the little guys look like little gold nugget plecos. and they absolutely manhandle mature greenspot.
Thanks. I looked for them, and it looks like they are used alot in Germany, but are not too available here in the states. How are they with acrylic tanks? Do you know? I'd be afraid they would chew up the tank walls. But thanks for the suggestion.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Merry Christmas Steve. I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday and a properous new year.

The discus looks great. Try excell (triple dose) on the algae problem.

I removed the discus in my planted tank. Someone wanted them. I plan to add more later.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q180/GCDiscus/00planted02.jpg

[scolley]

Merry Christmas Steve. I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday and a properous new year.

The discus looks great. Try excell (triple dose) on the algae problem.

I removed the discus in my planted tank. Someone wanted them. I plan to add more later.
And a VERY Merry Christmas to you my friend! And your family!

Dan - that tank looks GREAT! Wow! You had discus in there? Outstanding! :thumbsup:

But what exactly do you mean on the Excel triple dose? I've applied Excel directly to it with a syrenge, and it kills the spot where I squirt. But it's all over all the sand. No was to spot-treat it all like that.

So, are you referring to triple the dose on the bottle? If so, which dose? The bottle says 5ml/40 liters initially, and then 5ml/200 liters there after.

So are you talking about the initial dose, or the maintenance dose? And are you talking about a 1 time treatment, or regular like once a week? Please advise. Thanks.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

But what exactly do you mean on the Excel triple dose? I've applied Excel directly to it with a syrenge, and it kills the spot where I squirt. But it's all over all the sand. No was to spot-treat it all like that.

So, are you referring to triple the dose on the bottle? If so, which dose? The bottle says 5ml/40 liters initially, and then 5ml/200 liters there after.

So are you talking about the initial dose, or the maintenance dose? And are you talking about a 1 time treatment, or regular like once a week? Please advise. Thanks.

Hi Steve,
Whatever the bottle says triple the dosage. You can add additional dosage but be careful. Once you see the shrimp starts to jump out of the tank, stop.hehehe

I do a triple dose every waterchange. By Jeff's instruction.:)

[scolley]

Hi Steve,
Whatever the bottle says triple the dosage. You can add additional dosage but be careful. Once you see the shrimp starts to jump out of the tank, stop.hehehe

I do a triple dose every waterchange. By Jeff's instruction.:)
Dan, I appreciate the advice, but you aren't answering my question. So I'll repeat it...

The bottle says 5ml/40 liters initially, and then 5ml/200 liters there after.

That's two completely different doses. Both are on the bottle. Which dose are you referring to? The "inital" dose? Or the maintenance dose?

If you don't know, just tell me how much you use, and I'll figure it out myself. Thanks.

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Dan, I appreciate the advice, but you aren't answering my question. So I'll repeat it...

The bottle says 5ml/40 liters initially, and then 5ml/200 liters there after.

That's two completely different doses. Both are on the bottle. Which dose are you referring to? The "inital" dose? Or the maintenance dose?

If you don't know, just tell me how much you use, and I'll figure it out myself. Thanks.

I do 30ml per 60 gallons. From what jeff says triple dose everything to include the maintenance until you see the algae dissappear.

I triple dose ever water change and no maintenace dose. Play with it til it works for you.
The only thing affected by over dosing is the shrimp.

I hope that clarified it more. I hate going out on the limb. I may be blamed.ehhehehehe

[scolley]

I hope that clarified it more. I hate going out on the limb. I may be blamed.ehhehehehe
Thanks Dan. That helps a lot! I'll give it a shot, but will go slow until I see that the shrimpies are ok.

I won't blame you if it goes awry. I was warned.

Thanks a mil. This is driving me nuts. And Excel, when directly applied to the stuff, does kill it. So maybe this level of dosing is just what I need.

Now I just need to go by stock in Seachem, as with all the Excel I'm gonna be buying, that stock's gotta go up. While I'm at it, maybe I'll get a 2nd mortgage to pay for the excel... ;)

[standoyo]

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear about your GDA problems. Have you tried a 3 day blackout? Should weaken the algae enough for some 'workers' to eat it. :D

Nerite snails IME are very good at keeping surfaces fairly free of sticky algae.
I find the organic waste from discus contribute to a lot of algae problems compared with just keeping small fish.

As you know, the work of the tiny to convert the organics into plant food is the key for a balanced tank. Keeping the fish load low helps keep algae to a manageable level. I'd never put my anubias in direct light unless I plan to regularly take it out to bleach! [I have a high light tank of course!]

Hope you find a permanent solution. Your blogs are a favourite of mine since I started reading them from TPT. :)

[scolley]

stan - thanks for the feedback. I've been keeping excruciating records on my attempts to conquer this stuff. And much to my surprise. I'm winning the GDA war. And I'm not positive why. But even more mysteriously, my GSA is worse and I have some new nasty stuff growing on my sand. I'll post more in a few days when I return home. But at the moment I'm pecking out my reply on an iPhone... Even more excruciating than algae! More later. :-)

[standoyo]

Pecking out is a very funny description! I would love to have an IPhone. ahem sorry out topic!

GSA is a pain for anubias, to me GSA is a maintenance algae. You gotta got at it with a scraper or scissors for plants. I give up on nutrient control. It's out of control. lol. My tanks are like in nature, sometimes it's muddy, sometimes it's dry season, sometimes nutrient levels are great. lol

[pcsb23]

My tanks are like in nature, sometimes it's muddy, sometimes it's dry season, sometimes nutrient levels are great. lolsounds like some of mine too :p

[scolley]

Have you tried a 3 day blackout? Should weaken the algae enough for some 'workers' to eat it. Yes, but only kind of. I recently finished 4 days with no electric lights, and no ferts. That still leaves ambient light (I did not wrap the tank in light proof plastic), and N&P from the daily small water changes and fish poop. But the results were inconclusive. The algae on my sand got much worse. But the GDA on the glass seemed to be diminished a bit. Bottom line, my partial black out, partial fert limiting was NOT successful.


Nerite snails IME are very good at keeping surfaces fairly free of sticky algae.
I find the organic waste from discus contribute to a lot of algae problems compared with just keeping small fish... Keeping the fish load low helps keep algae to a manageable level.
I've had nerites, and I can't deal with their eggs. Plus my water is less than ideal for them (not enough Ca, unless I supliment). Good suggestion though. Thanks.

As for the fish load, well... that's why I'm doing this. Because if you are successful the results are lovely, but the fun comes from the fact that it is hard. ;)


I'd never put my anubias in direct light unless I plan to regularly take it out to bleach! [I have a high light tank of course!]
But LOTS of people put Anubias in direct light. Though I've been trying to pay attention to people that successfully (as in no GSA) keep Annubias in direct light, and I've yet to come upon a single example where they were not also allowing the roots to grow into the substrate. Mine can't get anywhere near the substrate. But people with Annubias, it direct high light, all seem to benefit from roots extending into the substrate.

BUT, I have NEWS! I thought that my algae growing on my sand was some form of Blue-Green Algae (BGA), so I nuked it with a week of Maracyn. It didn't do a DARNED thing to it. So I guess it was not BGA, but some form of brown algae. But it stopped my GSA IN IT'S TRACKS. Really. It's gone now.

I've never heard of antibiotics as a cure form GSA. But is knocked mine COMPLETELY out. Go figure.

But I've about had it with algae in general. And I've rescaped my tank in a way that does not require me to inject much in the way of ferts into my water column. Given that where I had my Annubias - on driftwood, away from the substrate - I ripped them all out.

So what a hoot! Now that I finally seemed to conquer their GDA, I pulled them from the tank. But that's OK. I'm hoping that the lack of nutrients in the water column will kill that pesky GDA on the tank walls, and the unidentified brown algae on my sand.

[standoyo]

Wow good experiment and maybe more testing on my part is needed. Shhh- the local ADA guys will ring my ears if they hear me use antibiotics in my tanks. They are so serious about not using anti anything... bla bla bla. even excel is a no no. lol :D

[GrillMaster]

Here ya go Steve! The best price I have seen for excel yet!! :D

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4656&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&pc=1&N=0&Ntt=lourish%20excel&Np=1

[scolley]

Thanks for the link Mark. But it was too late. When you posted that I had already purchased a big a**ed jug of Excel, knowing that I was gonna go through a bunch of the stuff.

I've been dosing a triple dose DAILY (85ml) for about 10 days. And I have seen some changes. But unfortunately I've changed a few other parameters - not the least of which being a re-scape of my tank - so I cannot attribute the changes in algae that I've seen to the Excel. Though I CAN say this...

The brown (diatomic) algae on the sand that I'm trying kill has NOT disappeared. IT has diminished radically, but some of those other factors that I mentioned could have a bearing. The only thing I can say with certainty, is that a daily triple dose of Excel, for 10 days, does not kill all diatomic algae growing on sand. Bummer.

More info as the situation develops. Pics soon too! :D

[phidelt85]

Hey, Steve, your 15min timer for feeding time....Did you make that or store-bought. I want to add a similar timer to my xP3 to shut it down when I feed the fish. Any help would be appreciate.. :)

[scolley]

Jose, I'm afraid my solution is a function of my AquaController III. It's one of the many features of the controller - a "feed delay" function, that I've rigged a simple push-button switch up to activate.

It's a wonderful thing in a planted tank, to be sure. But when you look into the costs of Aquacontrollers, I'm sure you'll see that this feature is one of many that they have. But for just that feature alone, it would be a wicked expensive timer. But when you buy one to control every thing in your tank, the economics are another matter entirely.

[phidelt85]

Thanks, Steve. That's what I was afraid of. I'll dig my nose deep into the internet encyclopedia and see what i can come up with. I do appreciate the input and timely response. :)

[GrillMaster]

Keep an eye on the lotus Steve. When I did the triple does on my 75G they melted on me along with the vals I had in it...:(

Crushed the BBA though! :)

tc
Mark

[scolley]

No more lotus Mark! I ripped 'em out. They were messing with my sand. I did a whole rescape over Christmas. It doesn't look like it, but it is. It took 10-15 hours, but you'd never know to look at it IMO.

I changed a bunch of the plants, and opened the (already open) area to the left even more. And I ripped out 1/2 of the drift wood to push the plants more back against the back, freeing up more room for the fish to swim, and less room for them to hide.

And most of all, I wanted to brighten the tank up - to pull out more light colors in the fish, and that has worked very well. They all are less dark, more colorful.
Here's a few pics. Cllicking on them will bring up a BIG pic. Be careful.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_80911c.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_80911.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_80968j.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_80968.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810014n.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810014.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810216p.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810216.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810620t.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_810620.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_811024x.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_811024.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_811630ad.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_811630.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812236aj.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812236.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812438al.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812438.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812640an.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_812640.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_813650ax.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_813650.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_815165bm.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_815165.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_815468bp.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_815468.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_816478bz.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_816478.jpg)

I posted all these pics over at planted tank too. But there I dealt more with plant information. Here, I'd like to make a few points about the fish...

1) They are brighter and more colorful.
2) They actually seem less skittish now that they have fewer places to hide. Weird. As if being able to hide makes them want to do it...
3) In some of the pics you can see the discus tankmates - amano shrimp, glass shrimp (LOTS of those!), zebra loaches, and soem corys. The glass shrimp are the primary bottom cleaners. In a few of these shots I am feeding the fish, and you can see the shrimp came out in droves! God bless 'em. They keep that sand CLEAN!

Hope you enjoy the pics half as much as I enjoy having this tank, 'cuz that'll still be a lot. ;)

[fishmama]

Dude-peace out bros'!!! What else can I say?! Just beautiful...wish I were there watching it!!! :angel:

[GrillMaster]

I absolutely love yer new layout my friend!!! The pics are amazing and the Discus are right at home in there no dought!

The swords are just a picture of health as well! :)

That pic with the Discus starin the shrimp down reminds me of the last great act of defiance! Remember the mouse flippin the eagle off?? :D :D

Well done Steve you ol crypt farmer you!! ;) :D

tc
Mark

[standoyo]

Wow Steve, it looks great, it does look like a 15 hour job to me. LOL.
White sand is a pain!

I suggest using some small rocks to cover the 'legs' of the plants. I notice the mosses are all gone. :) Even some nice small wood pieces could do it.

[scolley]

Thanks folks. Technically it's just a refinement of what I originally had. But in actual fact there were LOTS of changes, it just so happens that the end product looks a lot like before. That's by design. I like the original idea, it just was not executed well. Hopefully this will be better.


I suggest using some small rocks to cover the 'legs' of the plants. I notice the mosses are all gone. :) Even some nice small wood pieces could do it.Yea, I assume you are talking about the legs on the red rubin swords (Echinodorus ‘Rubin’). They are actually covering the legs of the bigger swords (Amazon on the right and Ozelots in the middle). But they need something covering their legs. Maybe.

I tried that over on the right, with some red crypt wendtii, but I didn't do it in the middle. I wanted to let the tank grow in a bit and see if it needed it. Looks like it might, but I'm gonna let the tank settle in a bit.

There is still moss there. Just less. It was totally taking over the driftwood. So I ripped a lot out, and am hoping that the addition of the two large Ozelot swords will offset the loss of that biomass.

Also I lost a lot a biomass with the anubias. But they are SO slow growing, I'm not sure how much benefit they were to the biofilter.

And Mark - congrats on being "on the team"! ;) And yes, those shrimp don't take ANY crap off of the discus. They will take a piece of bloodworm right out from in front of a discus. They've go NO fear.

[pcsb23]

Nice rework Steve - I don't mind a bit of leg though ;)

[digthemlows]

do glass shrimp multiply the way the red ones do?

[digthemlows]

Oh, and I love the new scape! Your tank is my "dream" tank! Really a show piece!

[scolley]

Paul - Thanks pal. I'm gonna give those legs a chance, see how it turns out.

digthemlows - "red one"? What? Are you referring to Cherries? If so, I wouldn't know except to say that they glass shrimp are CONSTANTLY carrying eggs. But at the same time, I rarely see little ones. And never tiny ones. So maybe they just get preganant, but have no viable offspring. I can't say. All I know is I bought about 100 from Drs Foster/Smith for about $25 six months ago, and the tank is still crawling with them. Never seen a dead one, not that it would last through the night in a tank with those scavengers. At this rate, no telling how long they'll be around. And at $25/100, I'm not too worried about replacing them when the time comes.

As for the "show tank", I'm not sure how to say this, but honest to gosh, it looks a lot better in person. My camera and photography skills just don't do it justice. Though the camera does make the fish appear more colorful than the naked eye perceives. The tank itself though, looks much more detailed and dimensional in person. Thanks though.

[phidelt85]

I do wish I could see it in person as well. I think you have a phenomenal tank, Steve. As I have said before, it really sets the bar high. :)

[Noz2Glass]

Steve, I've been following the Kahunas off and on for years I guess. I even contributed somewhere along the way to the Kahuna plumbing, if memory serves, at PlantedTank. Son of Kahuna is amazing. I have a 150 gal. I'd like to go open top with but I worry about humidity. Do you get much condensation on that slider/window next to the S.o.K. this time of year?

Bob

[Eyecandy]

Hi Steve... Love the new scape...It's just beautiful... I also found when I removed some of the driftwood the discus seemed happier and their colors lighter.. Also been using the on/off/on lighting and it seems to help with the algae issues.
I have a low tech 120 with similar plantings, pool filter sand over eco complete is some areas and semi adult discus and 2 bn... was wondering about the shrimp. When you say "glass shrimp" are they the same as ghost shrimp.. the kind used as feeder shrimp?? Did you qt them before adding or do anything to them.. I think I would love to give them a try.. if the discus end up snacking on a few that's ok.. my tank is about 83/84 and the ph is 6.6 and the water is very soft... would this bother the shrimp???
Again love the tank... you are an artist for sure..
Thanks in advance for any info re the shrimp. Sue

[scolley]

I do wish I could see it in person as well.Thanks. Really. It's funny... on one hand you know it sounds really arrogant to say "It looks better than this." Or, of course, that would be a good way of trying to make something seem better than it really is. But for those of you that understand the limitations of photograpy, and the limits of novice photographers, you do understand it can really be true. It might actually look better in person.

This kind of get's back to the reason for posting in the first place. No doubt there are some ego things going on here... but the principal reason for posting this stuff is to both share knowledge, and to encourage anyone that might be a step or two behind you.

phidelt85, you have always been very kind. Thank you. But as I hope you know, this is all shared with the hope of raising the bar for all of us. And the effort of discussing the "how to's" is all about disseminating experiences that we can all benefit from. Hopefully.



Steve, I've been following the Kahunas off and on for years I guess. I even contributed somewhere along the way to the Kahuna plumbing, if memory serves, at PlantedTank. Son of Kahuna is amazing. I have a 150 gal. I'd like to go open top with but I worry about humidity. Do you get much condensation on that slider/window next to the S.o.K. this time of year? BobBob, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I've had so much help from SO MANY people over the last few years, that I can't possibly remember all the contributions. But make no mistake about it... the small things I've done would have been TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE 15 years ago before the advent of internet based information sharing. What could have taken a lifetime of study is available to anyone that is really focused right now, today, if you are paying attention and studying the information that is so readily available.

So I have NO DOUBT that I learned from you. Thank you! Do you remeber what it was? ;) There's a lot of room there, as there was (and is) so much to learn!

As for the humidity, it's hard to say. I'm in the northeast, where in the winter our homes (due to the heating) are typically very, very dry. In fact, during the course of a day, my water level probably drops (this is an estimate) 1/4". And that room is still bone dry. In the spring, or summer, when it is wetter, it is still not a problem. Now maybe that's because my 100+ yr. old home is drafty, and the humidity escapes... I can't really say. Other than the fact that "No" humidity created by an open top in my home is no issue AT ALL.

And honest to goodness... I LOVE how an open top looks. It's different. And not everyone's cup of tea. But if you like it, I would STRONGLY encourage you to give it a shot. VERY, VERY different feeling in terms of your "connectedness" to the tank. A beautiful tank, stand, and hood are visually impressive. But IMO it creates a level of separation, kind of a "the fish are in there, and we are out here" kind of a feeling that you don't get with an open top tank. Things tend to seem a bit more intimate and connected. Or at least that's my own personal observation.



Hi Steve... Love the new scape...It's just beautiful... I also found when I removed some of the driftwood the discus seemed happier and their colors lighter.. Also been using the on/off/on lighting and it seems to help with the algae issues.
I have a low tech 120 with similar plantings, pool filter sand over eco complete is some areas and semi adult discus and 2 bn... was wondering about the shrimp. When you say "glass shrimp" are they the same as ghost shrimp.. the kind used as feeder shrimp?? Did you qt them before adding or do anything to them.. I think I would love to give them a try.. if the discus end up snacking on a few that's ok.. my tank is about 83/84 and the ph is 6.6 and the water is very soft... would this bother the shrimp???
Again love the tank... you are an artist for sure..
Thanks in advance for any info re the shrimp. Sue
Sue, I'm glad on the feedback on less-wood, happier fish. Thanks. And while I'm not so sure it's a "happier" issue, it's good to get confirmation on the lighter colors thing. I'm sure it's just a camflague issue.

You seem to be describing a "siesta" for lighting, which I have observed for years in my tanks. At the moment I'm not doing that, for fear that it is holding my plants back - as opposed to retarding the algae. So rather than using a siesta to hold the algae back, I'm trying to crank the plant growth instead - using that as my principal algae fighting mechanism.

And you know what? For the life of me I can't tell any difference. :D

As for the shrimp, yes, these are also called ghost shrimp. The cheap feeder stuff. And YES! I did indeed quarantine them first. I used Rid-Ich+ for external nasties, and Paracite Clear for the internal nasties. Using the manufacturer recommended doses and durations I had zero fatalities.

And if they pick up a stray Tetra Color Bit, or Frozen Blood Worm, so what? If the fish were really hungry, it would have never hit the bottom. And that bottom is CLEAN. No fish poop any where either.

Granted, my fish are NOT fat. And that is something many people here work hard to achieve. So if that is your objective, don't get these shrimp... your fish will never have the chance to do a long leisurely graze of the bottom for food. Once it hits the bottom, they are fighting the shrimp for it.

But on the other hand, my fish do seem healthy. If open "in your face" behavior, zero clamped fins, bright colors, and frequent spawning are reasonable indicators, then I'm pretty sure that they are healthy. Even if the shrimp will never let them get fat.

[tacks]

Hi Steve as I said on the other site the new tank looks great. The open areas are great, it seems we can see more of the tank. As always a job well done. Your rescape has given me some things to keep in mind as I am changing to a 150 tall. Will be a fun to scape. Thanks for all your updates Ed

[Noz2Glass]

Hah, I couldn't possibly take it the wrong way:) I couldn't remember what it was either:confused:, so I went and searched. I found one post I made about the location of the pH probe.

I totally agree on the open top p.o.v. My house may be just the opposite. We just moved into a brand new tyvek wrapped house. I'm in south NJ, not as far north or east as you, but the gas/forced air heat still makes a nice 'argument' for open top. Even with my black plastic trimmed tank, an open top would look nice. Especially with a plant or two poking their heads above the water. I just need to convince my wife how much better life will be with two or three metal halides floating above the discus/angel tank:D

Bob

[scolley]

...The open areas are great, it seems we can see more of the tank... EdEd, at the risk of stating the obvious, my particular scape is heavily influence by the fact that the right side of the tank is in a corner, and the left corner is closest to the center of the room and viewers. So my open space is strongly tilted to the left, to draw fish to where the people will be observing from and it works. But honestly, looking at the tank - independent of the spacial context within the room, I think that open left/crowded right looks like crap. But it's a compromise of needing a decent plant mass to help keep algae at bay, and having open areas to attract fish.

If your 150 allows the choice, as it is situated in your home, I'd personally recommend a more "balanced" scape. But that's the fun of were you are right now... those are the decisions you have to make. Good luck!



...I just need to convince my wife how much better life will be with two or three metal halides floating above the discus/angel tankWell! That is one place I DEFINITELY cannot help you with Bob. You are on your own with that one! But good luck. ;)

PS - I've found the "Honey, did I mention this ahead of time? No? Because I hope that looks OK! It was a lot of money, and a lot of work, and it's REALLY going to look bad if I have to rip it out..." approach seems to be effective. If not used too often. :D

[digthemlows]

Howz everything coming along? You and Dan have my two favorite planted discus tanks out there!

[Aquaboogie]

OK

I'm a newbe here. Right now a got a 30 gallon aquarium.
I'm planning to start a 75 gallon with discus this spring. But I'm looking and learning HERE first.

Today, I just happen to click on this thread and saw the pics.


Holy Guacamole!!!:bounce2: Not only this is the best looking aquarium I've ever seen. This is one of the best looking THINGS I've ever seen in my life!

[scolley]

HYou and Dan have my two favorite planted discus tanks out there!Thanks digthemlows! I trust you are referring to Dan of Gulf Coast Discus... I LOVE his tank too!


Holy Guacamole!!!:bounce2: Not only this is the best looking aquarium I've ever seen. This is one of the best looking THINGS I've ever seen in my life!
Them's pretty strong words Aquaboogie! But I DO appreciate the comment.

It's definitely been work. And not cheap. So it's good to know people like it. Thank you!



In fact, at the moment things are a bit challenging...

My big problem is that I have overstocked my tank, and under planted it for aesthetic reasons. And to make matters worse, my professional life takes me days, or weeks, away from any tank maintenance. That DEFINITELY makes life interesting.

I just returned from a week away. And the my GDA was out of control. Worst yet, I've got a repeat of the nasty green stuff growing on my sand. I'm not sure what it is... but it's not BGA. More like some form of brown algae in all likelihood.

Either way, the tank needs work. I've got two large new sword plants. One is thriving, and the other is in trouble. They both arrived from the same vendor, at the same time, but are clearly differing in their success in my tank. It's looking like that I will soon have to replace one.

But that said, I'm in the throws of a different problem.

A few weeks ago my Ocean Clear filter became clogged and I wound up replacing the filter. After that the algae exploded. I mean EXPLODED. I still don't have any of the nasty stuff. Just the garden variety stuff. But it's clear to me now that my Ocean Clear 340 filter represented a very significant portion of my biofilter. And changing that filter knocked any semblance of balance in my tank on it's proverbial b*tt.

I normally don't measure NH3/NH4 (ammonia), but I did the other day, and it's non-zero now. With my test kit it's hard to quantify - somewhere in the .05-.10 ppm range. The real point is, it's not zero. This too is an indicator that my biofilter has taken a serious hit.

So I'm battling algae at present. But I'll try to get a pic in the next few days - just so you can see the tank on a "bad day".

Having this huge impact from just changing my filter demonstrates to me very clearly that the biofiltration capacity of the Ocean Clear 340 must be huge. So I bit the bullet and bought another one, and a pump to push it. I'm waiting for my new filter cartridge to get well established, and then I'm going to rip out my Eheim Pro II and replace it with the 2nd Ocean Clear and pump. So rather than my current filtration - 1 Ocean Clear and 1 Eheim Pro II - it'll be 2 Ocean Clears.

I'm happy this happened though, as it has been a GREAT learning experience. It shows me that even with a good clean up crew (inverts, cories, etc.) in place, 9 adult discus in a 180 is a heavy biological burden in a lightly planted tank. And while my water turnover rate is equivalent to a 50% water change every 3 days, vs. traditional planted tank 50% every 7 days, it is still not enough. So hopefully the addition of this new Ocean Clear will add the additional biological filtration that I need.

Pics soon. I hope!

[Nanu]

Hi Steve,
I have been following both our tank threads on the Kahunas for a while.
And would like to thank you for shairng those with us.
Your tanks have been of great inspiration to me and I really envy you.
Would love to reach your level of expertise some day..
Thanks a lot and great tank and fish...
Loved your dedication to them...
Cheers,

[digthemlows]

Thanks digthemlows! I trust you are referring to Dan of Gulf Coast Discus... I LOVE his tank too!

Yes, Dan of Gulf Coast.......

I'm happy this happened though, as it has been a GREAT learning experience. It shows me that even with a good clean up crew (inverts, cories, etc.) in place, 9 adult discus in a 180 is a heavy biological burden in a lightly planted tank. And while my water turnover rate is equivalent to a 50% water change every 3 days, vs. traditional planted tank 50% every 7 days, it is still not enough. So hopefully the addition of this new Ocean Clear will add the additional biological filtration that I need.

Pics soon. I hope!

My discus aren't all adults, but I have 10 in a 125 gallon. 3 adults and 7 3.5" - 4" sub adults, plus 4 cory's, 30 H. Rasboras, 2 SAE, 2 Clown Loaches, 5 Rosy Barbs.......and last week after 3 days of no water changes (busy and missed one) my amonia was still zero. I'm running a fluval 405 and a Aquaclear HOB 110 and a sponge filter........I would think your 180 should be fine with the current filters? What other fish are in there?

Keep on posting!

[RockHound]

Good read on Ghost (Glass) shrimp.
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Ghost%20Shrimp.htm

[GrillMaster]

Wow Steve!! Sorry to hear that your bio took a hit my friend! I know that you will get things back to normal in no time though! :) :)

tc
Mark

[scolley]

Hi Steve,
I have been following both our tank threads on the Kahunas for a while.
And would like to thank you for shairng those with us.
Your tanks have been of great inspiration to me and I really envy you.
Would love to reach your level of expertise some day..
Thanks a lot and great tank and fish...
Loved your dedication to them...
Cheers,Thanks Nanu. But I don't have expertise really, just dedication and perseverance. And being to stubborn to know when to quit. But I DO appreciate the kind words. Posting can get to be a PITA, and it's always nice to know that it helps someone!



My discus aren't all adults, but I have 10 in a 125 gallon. 3 adults and 7 3.5" - 4" sub adults, plus 4 cory's, 30 H. Rasboras, 2 SAE, 2 Clown Loaches, 5 Rosy Barbs.......and last week after 3 days of no water changes (busy and missed one) my amonia was still zero. I'm running a fluval 405 and a Aquaclear HOB 110 and a sponge filter........I would think your 180 should be fine with the current filters? What other fish are in there?

Keep on posting!Forgive me if I don't list my fauna, but it's fair to say that with the exception of the discus, our bioloads are very, very similar. Except of course I've got a sh*tload of shrimp. But that should just prove your point... why am I having trouble and you are not?

I dunno. How often do you do w/c's? Is it heavily planted? Both of those questions are MAJOR variables. For my part, it's light-moderately planted, with a 50% w/c every 3 days.



Good read on Ghost (Glass) shrimp.
http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Live%20Food,%20Ghost%20Shrimp.htm
Good read on the shrimp. Thanks! But your PM was even more interesting!



Wow Steve!! Sorry to hear that your bio took a hit my friend! I know that you will get things back to normal in no time though! :) :)

tc
Mark
Thanks Mark. Hope to catch up soon...

[digthemlows]

Makes me wonder how much shrimp affect the bio? I have been messing around with CRS and some Ghost shrimp in a 30 gallon. I only have some plants and about 30 shrimp and an otto and my Aquaclear 50 doesn't seem to keep up, I have to do 50% water changes every 3rd day. Seems that maybe ghost shrimp could have a good amount of waste?? It really does seem to be the big difference in our tanks as far as bio load goes..............I'm also low tech with no CO2 running, does that affect the bio's ability or staying power?? I really enjoy all you are doing, I modeled my tank partially after yours, and really got back into discus after years of being out because of your tank!

You raise the bar for sure!

[scolley]

Makes me wonder how much shrimp affect the bio? That's a good quesiton, but honestly I'm really hard pressed to believe the shrimp could make a large negative difference.

Their positive difference is significant, I'm sure... as it does not take a lot of extra uneaten food to mess up a planted tank. And they eat it ALL. So their positive difference is, IMO, imporatant.

But as to a negative impact, that's tougher to imagine. Any animal in a planted tank contributes waste (principally ammonia) that has a potential detrimental effect. But that ammonia HAS to have a signinficant correltation to body mass. Some animals may contribute more than others, pound for pound, but how much different can that be?

When I look at ALL of my shrimp, in total, they cannot weigh more than one of my largest discus. But let's assume I'm wrong. Let's assume they have the mass of two adult discus. Given that, should I assume that my 9 discus tank is having GDA difficulties because i have the equivilent of 2 additional discus? Maybe. But that seems to be splitting hairs.

IMO my GDA problem is rooted in a problem larger than having 2 too many discus. :(

[digthemlows]

That's a good quesiton, but honestly I'm really hard pressed to believe the shrimp could make a large negative difference.

Their positive difference is significant, I'm sure... as it does not take a lot of extra uneaten food to mess up a planted tank. And they eat it ALL. So their positive difference is, IMO, imporatant.

But as to a negative impact, that's tougher to imagine. Any animal in a planted tank contributes waste (principally ammonia) that has a potential detrimental effect. But that ammonia HAS to have a signinficant correltation to body mass. Some animals may contribute more than others, pound for pound, but how much different can that be?

When I look at ALL of my shrimp, in total, they cannot weigh more than one of my largest discus. But let's assume I'm wrong. Let's assume they have the mass of two adult discus. Given that, should I assume that my 9 discus tank is having GDA difficulties because i have the equivilent of 2 additional discus? Maybe. But that seems to be splitting hairs.

IMO my GDA problem is rooted in a problem larger than having 2 too many discus. :(


I agree, I've read all of your threads and couldn't help if I tried. Basically, you are trail blazing!..............maybe keep an eye on light period?? If I get to much outside sunlight I get BGA on the glass...............hmmmmm???

[scolley]

...maybe keep an eye on light period?? If I get to much outside sunlight I get BGA on the glass...............hmmmmm???
Yeah, I'm looking at that. But it's not just photoperiod. I started this tank with a short photoperiod, around 6.5 hours I believe, and I still had this problem. So shortening my current 9.5 hours might help, it's not the whole problem.

Outside sunlight ain't it either. I have reverse shadows of GDA on the acrylic where leaves by the sides cast shadows from the halogens. And I get it in places that direct and/or indirect sunlight never touches, but is illuminated by the halogens. It's definitely driven by the halogen lights.

I'm trying a number of things. At the moment it's a Fe reduction.
I'll we'll see how that goes for a week. Then I'll try something else. I'll crack this nut eventually.

[digthemlows]

Yeah, I'm looking at that. But it's not just photoperiod. I started this tank with a short photoperiod, around 6.5 hours I believe, and I still had this problem. So shortening my current 9.5 hours might help, it's not the whole problem.

Outside sunlight ain't is either. I be reverse shadows of GDA on the acrylic where leaved by the sides cast shadows from the halogens. And I get it in places that direct and/or indirect sunlight never touches, but is illuminated by the halogens. It's definitely driven by the halogen lights.

I'm trying a number of things. At the moment it's a Fe reduction.
I'll we'll see how that goes for a week. Then I'll try something else. I'll crack this nut eventually.

The time and effort you're putting in will help so many planted tank addicts in the future! I commend you for that!...........oh, and your tank is on of the nicest I've seen too!:)

[tacks]

Hi Steve your not alone here. Since I went to the 150 tall I am having my algae wows. I am using some Excel everyday, also cutting back on the iron and hate to say this but I might try some phosphates (last resort) I also have a lot of light with this tek h.o. lighting. It givesme something to do. take care Ed

[scolley]

...hate to say this but I might try some phosphates (last resort)
Sorry to hear about your trouble Ed. I can tell you this though, you'll be wasting your time if you are planning on upping your phosphates to fight this stuff. I do not have the best documentation on that, but I did try it, and to my own satisfaction am pretty sure that it makes no positive difference. Maybe makes it worse.

That said, it would be great if you prove me wrong. You'd have a clean tank, and I'd be pouring in the phosphates!

And I had a Tek myself. Heck of a lot of light those monsters! Be careful when you point it. ;) And FWIW, I'm not at all surprised that you have both a Tek and GDA. The more I look at the problem, the more light is implicated.

[Condor]

I posted all these pics over at planted tank too. But there I dealt more with plant information. Here, I'd like to make a few points about the fish...

1) They are brighter and more colorful.
2) They actually seem less skittish now that they have fewer places to hide. Weird. As if being able to hide makes them want to do it...
3) In some of the pics you can see the discus tankmates - amano shrimp, glass shrimp (LOTS of those!), zebra loaches, and soem corys. The glass shrimp are the primary bottom cleaners. In a few of these shots I am feeding the fish, and you can see the shrimp came out in droves! God bless 'em. They keep that sand CLEAN!

Hope you enjoy the pics half as much as I enjoy having this tank, 'cuz that'll still be a lot. ;)

Steve, outstanding fish and tank. Enjoyed reading about it. I love your loaches. Have they done well with the discus?

Adrian

[scolley]

Adrian, I'm not really a "loach guy", so I'm not one to comment authoratatively on these vs. other loaches. But I have kept these for a few years now, in a number of tanks, discus and otherwise. My findings on zebra's are:

1) MUCH happier in groups of 4+.
2) Will keep your snail population down to ZERO.
3) Will not harass other fish, but will take down very slow moving, sick, or injured inverts.
4) Wonderful at scavenging any protein that hits the bottom of the tank.
5) Moderate at scavenging non-protein based food (like TCB) that hits the bottom of the tank.
6) Have ZERO negative impact on plants and/or other green life (like algae, though that would be good).
7) But like all loaches, they are scaleless, which implies are they will not take well to many possible medications you might want to put in a tank.

Other than that, I really haven't been paying attention to them. ;)

Actually I think they are GREAT. I would recommend ANYONE with a planted tank to get several. And DEFINITELY recommend them to anyone with a planted discus tank!

I will never have a community tank without them, unless I am dealing with the one real unfortunate fact of zebra loaches... they are only available for limited periods of time each year.

[Condor]

Thanks for the info Steve. I have a trio of them and have thought about putting them in with discus. You're right though, they are not easy to find.

Adrian

[geleen]

Here is a silly idea from a low tech tank guy.

How about raising the lights an additional 6 inches?

Just a random thought this morning :)
John

[scolley]

Here is a silly idea from a low tech tank guy.

How about raising the lights an additional 6 inches?
That's not silly John. I've thought about that, and it could help. Or maybe better put, it WOULD help, the question is... how much?

I probably won't find out though because without a hood (do not want one), you can't raise the lights too high without risking the light, or glare from it, being in people's eyes. It's about as high as I can make it now without risking blinding short people like myself. Or my wife. :D

[Joander123]

Just wanted to add that i've looked at both of your tanks, and they are both simply amazing.

someday i'd love to have a tank like that.. wish i could do it now but i think it loses a little something in smaller tanks =).

[scolley]

Thanks Joander123. But please temper your enthusiasm with the knowledge that I post the good pics... not the ones where I need to scrape algae off the sides. :o

The grass is always greener on the other side. And from where I sit, I'm beginning to wonder about trying bare bottom. :p

[pcsb23]

And from where I sit, I'm beginning to wonder about trying bare bottom. :pNoooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bandana:

[scolley]

I'm just kidding Paul. :D

But I set the mark fairly high for myself, and when my tanks don't look good it does indeed start to wear on me.

I put this tank up early June last year. That's just under two months from now. That's how long this algae has before I decide that something radical has to change. I'm not quick to admit defeat, but one year battling the same algae in a tank means it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

It hasn't been a year yet, but the clock is ticking.

[pcsb23]

Steve,

Battling anything in a tanks can be a royal pain. I have two display tanks, one is in my study the other in the loungs. Both are sinmilar sized and both are on the back walls with the windows opposite (in the study it's full length patio doors). The study faces south, the lounge north. The only significant difference is the loiunge tank has less lighting than the study, but it is the one that has always suffered with algae.... don't know if it helps you or not, but what I was trying to say was the tanks location may be a factor.

Be susch a shame to tear this tank down my friend.

[scolley]

Thanks Paul. Location is aways a factor in planted tanks. And the location on this tank is suboptimal. But it does not matter. With a tank that large, in a home of modest size like mine, there are not that many choices for where the tank goes. And given the fact that my home is spread out over three floors, and given this size/weight of the tank, plus the age of the house, I am stuck on the ground floor in my estimation. And that narrows it down pretty quickly to the room that it is in - new construction with well supported floors, and easy access to tap water and a drain for auto-water changes. But it also has large windows on each side - not ideal.

But you tank the good with the bad, and work with it. :)

[digthemlows]

All your plants would do OK without CO2 wouldn't they? I'm just a lowtech guy so I wouldn't know, but is it worth a try to go lowtech for a while? Or does co2 not affect algae? I have GDA near the sand in one corner that gets sunlight from a window, but the rest of the tank is pretty much algae free........I'm running a coralife 2x65watt light for 12+ hours a day on a 125gallon tank and what little algae I get is eaten by my 2 BNs and 4 ottos. Plus low plant growth = less trimming = less maintenance right?? ................I hope it works out because your tank is an inspiration and for me, a Goal! Thanks for all the research, too bad it's at the expense of your arm (for having to scrub the glass)...........:)

[GrillMaster]

OK Steve...I have to step in an explain to everyone now just how much of a perfectionist you are!! I wish my tank looked as good as your worst case algae woes you are complainin about!! ;) :D

Planted tank OCD!!...:D :D :D :D :D

I bet if I was starin into your tank right about now, you would actually have to point the algae out to me!!! :)

Ready for a beer yet?


tc
Mark

[scolley]

All your plants would do OK without CO2 wouldn't they? I'm just a lowtech guy so I wouldn't know, but is it worth a try to go lowtech for a while? Or does co2 not affect algae?I wish to gosh I could answer your question. Truth is, I've only been at this for a few years, and I don't have the courage to try a low tech tank. Too much is out of your control. With "hi-tech" you tweak this, or tweak that, and at the end of the day if it doesn't work out you say "Well, if I had only turned the XYZ knob harder... " :D

But enough joking... I'm working on a few fundamental assumptions...


1) I want a BRIGHTLY lit tank to be a visual spectical when people inspect the tank. It's not what the discus are used to in nature. And it is not easy to keep algae under control in that much light. But WOW, does it catch people's attention when they walk in the room. And less that sound vain, it looks DAMN visually satisfying and enjoyable to me too, even when I'm all by my lonesome.

2) Lots of light (see #2 above) is a real problem when you have a lot of large fish like discus, and do not have a bare bottom that you can hoover out on a very regular basis.

4) Since you are not hoovering out all the nitrates from the left over food and fish poop, you had better have plants ready to soak it up.

5) If your plant's are ready to soak up that huge concentration of nitrates, you better make sure they have all the other things they need. If not, they will suck till they run out of the thing they have the least of. So... make sure CO2 is not the limiting factor - make that available in abundence.

6) And while you are at it, supply plenty of micros, phosphates, and potassium too.

7) Or, if this is too much, you can just turn down the lights, and do more frequent water changes and bottom hoovering.


I hope that kind of summarizes why I am where I am today.



OK Steve...I have to step in an explain to everyone now just how much of a perfectionist you are!! I wish my tank looked as good as your worst case algae woes you are complainin about!! ;) :D

Planted tank OCD!!...:D :D :D :D :D

I bet if I was starin into your tank right about now, you would actually have to point the algae out to me!!! :)

Ready for a beer yet?


tc
Mark
Mark, you are right on target. I am a purist, and perfection is not only my goal... but my nemesis, because experience is teaching me that I will never, never reach it. It seems that it will always be just (oh so frustratingly) just out of my grasp.

As for that beer... Yes, I am MORE that ready. And should you, or Al, or your wife, or anyone else of the good people on this forum be so inclined...

I will be in the bar (eating seafood and slugging down a beer or four) at Lenny's seafood restaurant (http://www.lennysnow.com/) in Branford on Sunday, Mar 13th, at 5 PM. Guaranteed. In the bar, with my main squeeze Marueen. Don't tell my wife. ;) Love to see you if you can make it! All other parties invited.

PS - Bring Buck. What? Who's Buck...? Sorry, wrong forum.

[GrillMaster]

I will be in the bar (eating seafood and slugging down a beer or four) at Lenny's seafood restaurant (http://www.lennysnow.com/) in Branford on Sunday, Mar 13th, at 5 PM. Guaranteed. In the bar, with my main squeeze Marueen. Don't tell my wife. ;) Love to see you if you can make it! All other parties invited.

PS - Bring Buck. What? Who's Buck...? Sorry, wrong forum.

Now that sounds great! seafood an beer. I'll just set myself up with a dozen or so oysters on the half shell an a couple a Sam Adams!! :D :D :D

Just talked to Buck today. I am sure we can get him ta go.

[scolley]

Cool! I have to be in that neighborhood anyway, so I'm gonna be there anyway with the wife havin' beer and seafood (that's why I believe in a benevolent god - why else would there be beer and seafood? :) ).

So I'm gonna be there, if you guys can swing by, it would be great! Hope to see you...

[scolley]

OK Mark... just in case you forgot what I looked like... other than being staggeringly handsome, I'll be the short brown haired, medium build, glasses wearing guy, in a brown and maroon shirt over a black T shirt. Jeans. Hiking shoes. Hot babe with me.

Easy to find, right? Would be awesome if you can drag Buck in.

Al? You around? Stop in if you are in the neighborhood!

[scolley]

OK Mark... just in case you forgot what I looked like... other than being staggeringly handsome :D , I'm the short brown haired, medium build, glasses wearing guy, in an brown and maroon shirt over a black T shirt. Jeans. Hiking shoes. Hot babe with me.

Easy to find, right? Would be awesome if you can drag Buck in.

Al? You around? Stop in if you are in the neighborhood!

[scolley]

hey mark! I'm sitting at a booth in the bar and you guys are nowhere to be found! Bummer. Seafood and beer's good though. Sorry you are missing it...

[IAMTHOMAS]

Simply Stunning

Its like a real dream:)

[target]

Why do you guys do this to me? Everytime I find a post like this it makes me want to rush out and pick up the biggest tank I can afford. Your tank is beautiful, and all your fish, to my newbie eye, look really good. I now have another example to work towards. Thanks for posting, and keep loading those pictures!

[IAMTHOMAS]

What a stunning tank! whats happened to it now?

Thomas

[scolley]

Thanks for the kind works IAMTHOMAS and target. Much appreciated!

And sorry for not posting more pics. The tank has going though a quiet, though not particularly attractive period. I had been having trouble with a number of algaes. To combat this I ripped out a number of plants that started out ok, but long term were not doing well. Unfortunately some of those plants looked great IMO. I figured out a way to drop in stem plants without letting them root and are using them in increase the biomass. I've also eliminated my N and P dosing, which has helped loads!

digthemlows posted here about his fish load, which seemed to be higher than mine with no troubles. Thanks digthemlows! That got me wondering. And here's what I came up with...

I had been bothered about ammonia. It turned out that my "low, but non-zero" readings were just the funky colors of my test kit. I figured that out when I got the same "low, but non-zero" reading for distilled water. :o

But I was certain the algae had to be from NH4. That said, plants take up the nitrogen in NH4, and I was running a reasonable nitrate level, somewhere around 12-14 ppm. Nothing excessive.

So I dumped in all the stem plants that I mentioned. Some didn't take too well to the warm water, but some thrived. I had a tank full of plants, but STILL I had the algae problems. Reading Diana Walstad's book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium got me thinking... maybe my ammonia was indeed so low that it could not be read with out test kits. But possibly because of the relative abundance of NH3 provided in my dosing, the low amounts of NH4 (ammonia) wasn't being used up fast enough and was working as an algae growth trigger. Tom Barr is always banging that "NH4 triggers algae" drum, and I think he is right.

So I eliminated my nitrogen dosing (phosphates too to keep things in balance), but continued my potassium dosing (K never hurt anyone's tank in reasonable doses). And guess what? Most of the algae got MUCH better. Specifically the thread and fuzz stuff that was attacking my plants. Cool!

But it didn't eliminate it all. :(

The second half of the algae battling quest is to have your plants thrive. And mine were just getting by. And I think I know the problem... I've got really soft water. KH 1.2 and GH 1.5 out of the tap. It makes the fish happy, but not the plants. But I haven't been boosting my GH or KH because with my auto water changes I've had been going almost a year in a experiment to see if the plants would let me get away with this. I've now concluded that they will not.

I started boosting my GH to 3 degrees with regular doses of Calcium Chloride and Magnesium Sulfate, and boy! The plants love me for it! And guess what? The thriving plants cuts back on that algae even further.

And for a little while I was boosting my KH to 2 with baking soda. And while I was doing it my nasty GDA and green algae on the sand nearly disappeared. But that required daily dosing, something I HATE. So after three nearly GDA free weeks I stopped dosing the baking soda. And the GDA is back.

I'm giving it a month to see if it will stabilize, and if it is still around, I'll go back to boosting my KH to 2 to see if it retreats again.

Here's a pic of the tank, just after the 1 year anniversary of setting it up. I'm not too happy about the aquascape. Really a JABOP 'scape more than a true aquascape (JABOP = Just A Bunch Of Plants). I'll spend the next few months trying to arrange this in a more visually appealing way. And will continue my search for low maintenance plants that will work well without substrate in discus temperatures.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8487_edited-2.JPG (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8487_edited-1.JPG)

I'll try to work up a few more pics... this one is sorta lame. I took it really to document what the tank looked like after a year. But for now, this is where things are.

PS - I forgot! I went to local fish club meeting to hear Al give a talk (excellent Discus talk BTW!) and picked up 6 really nice juvenile cockatoo dwarf cichilds for about $15. Those have made a wonderful addition to the tank. I thought the glass shrimp made the discus fight for their food. Wow! These little guys leave no FBW traces to be found, and will snatch it right out from under a discus nose if the discus aren't particularly hungry. Great little additions to the community, and certainly pulling their load in the cleanup crew. Al told me I didn't have to worry about them getting enough food, and he was right!

[IAMTHOMAS]

Hi, But what are those bushy plants at the right side of the tank their really really nice

[scolley]

Those are Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis), a wickedly easy plant to grow. In fact I think that was my first true aquatic plant ever. I'm not really fond of it personally. But it is easy. It tolerates the temps. And trimming it is really, really easy. So until I find a good replacement, I'm keeping it. :thumbsup:

[IAMTHOMAS]

Woah I have a 76 g tank and I'm only 12! So,How long did it take to set up a tank like that? When I bought my 75 g I took at least 5 hours by myself to set it up ha If I had a Dad like you it would be cool haha. And what do you do with their fry?

[scolley]

Woah I have a 76 g tank and I'm only 12! So,How long did it take to set up a tank like that? When I bought my 75 g I took at least 5 hours by myself to set it up ha If I had a Dad like you it would be cool haha. And what do you do with their fry?Well! I'd guess you will have a 250 by the time you are 25!

Not including building and varnishing the stand, something like 80-100 hours to set this up. And I'm sure I spent double that in planning.

The grass is always greener on the other side IAMTHOMAS. I am a dad myself, and my kids wish I didn't spend so much time on the tank. So maybe it's not all that great. Personally, I'd get a kick out of having a kid that was into aquariums. So I guess we are even. :)

The fry? What fry? If they are lucky enough to make it to the point of being wigglers, they don't stand a chance of making it even 24 hours wiggling with the shrimp and neons. It's a pretty tough tank on anything tiny.

[IAMTHOMAS]

Well! I'd guess you will have a 250 by the time you are 25!

Not including building and varnishing the stand, something like 80-100 hours to set this up. And I'm sure I spent double that in planning.

The grass is always greener on the other side IAMTHOMAS. I am a dad myself, and my kids wish I didn't spend so much time on the tank. So maybe it's not all that great. Personally, I'd get a kick out of having a kid that was into aquariums. So I guess we are even. :)

The fry? What fry? If they are lucky enough to make it to the point of being wigglers, they don't stand a chance of making it even 24 hours wiggling with the shrimp and neons. It's a pretty tough tank on anything tiny.
!
Hmm well seems like the shrimp in my tank didn't last they were eaten! I don't understand how you could keep your shrimp alive in your tank any dead yet by a Discus murder? haha and thanks for the reply

Thomas

[IAMTHOMAS]

Oh btw just a curious question how many kids do you have and how old are they :p I still love your tank


Thomas

[Fons_van_der_Hart]

Steve,

Please empty your PM box.

[scolley]

Done Fons. Sorry about that!

[GrillMaster]

Well I guess apologies and rain checks are in order there my friend!! :o

I have been so busy...You have no idea!! I will tell ya all about it when I see ya Saturday!

Your tank is still lookin awsome BTW! :)

Is that a speck of algae I see on the glass in the very bottom left hand corner? ;) :D :D :D

[scolley]

No prob Mark. They served me some bad oysters right after that post! :D You didn't miss a thing.

And yes, that is a spec of algae d*mmit! I hate that stuff.

[brewmaster15]

Steve,

And yes, that is a spec of algae d*mmit! I hate that stuff. Try not to be so hard on the poor algae...were it not for a little algae..none of us would be here to admire your tank.:bandana::D:D:D

I guarantee you'll see quite a few "specs" here on sat.. More if I don't happen to find the time among all the NE Discus Meeting preps to take out the trusty razor blade and scrape the glass!:D

Looking forward to seeing you on Sat Steve!...and you too Mark!!.... I've bottled some homebrews for the occassion and hope they are ready by Sat.;):D

-al

[scolley]

Looking forward to seeing you on Sat Steve!...and you too Mark!!.... I've bottled some homebrews for the occassion and hope they are ready by Sat.;):D

-alSame here Al! I'll be sure to bring my bottle opener. ;)

I'd hate for someone to taste some immature beer without first being able to tell them what to be prepared for. That would be unneighborly! :D

[scolley]

Been TOO long since I posted pics. So here's a few...


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8602_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8602_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8626_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8626_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8615_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8615_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8630_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8630_edited-1.jpg)


You can see on one of the tails of one of the High-bodied Leopards that it's getting ragged. It, along with my runt Cobalt (hard to find in those pics) get beat up a bit by the other fish. And a few weeks ago I noticed they (the one Leopard and the Cobalt runt) were getting - what for all the world looked like - tail rot! Now I know the numero uno suspect there is water quality, which REALLY got my attention.

I noticed it happen after I started boosting my GH and KH up to around 3-4 from my normally super soft levels of 1-1.5. So I cut out the KH boosting - which I was doing with baking soda - and did a massive water change in case there was something I was missing - and their tails got better within a couple of days. I don't know if that was coincidence, or not. Something was wrong. KH 3-4 doesn't seem so high. But they improved immediately thereafter.

So I can't say for sure... but if I try that again I'll definitely be keeping my eye on those two.

[digthemlows]

I've been finding that my discus like consistency, not so much worrying about parameters as worrying about doing things the same..........I can't vouch for anything but every time I've had even a little problem with my fish is when I try something "different". Wonder if that's more the case as my KH is around where you were bringing yours up to.............I bet if I started to lower mine I'd have some strange problem...............So far my experience with Discus is not that they are so fragile to certain conditions but that they need clean constancy. What works for one person may not work for another, but once you find what works I'd be leary to mess with it...........of course, your fish and tank are what I strive for, so why I'm even talking is a mystery........think I sit back and stare at your tank for a while..........thanks!!

[digthemlows]

btw, your Cobalts have caught up to the leopards and then some..........good growth for a planted tank! Beautiful fish!!!!!!!!!!

[scolley]

I've been finding that my discus like consistency, not so much worrying about parameters as worrying about doing things the same...I'm hoping that was the problem - the change - as you suggest. Since it was a small change (2+ degrees) of a fairly benign water parameter, I made the change all at once - not gradual. So that could have been it. Yet, at the same time the tail rot showed up, two of my Cobalts spawned - a pair that has not spawned for a while. So they didn't mind the water too much.

Hard to say. But it happened to the two fish that get beat up, and it's better now. Everyone says it's stress and poor water. So the stress part is right. I hope it was that small - corrected - change in the water.



btw, your Cobalts have caught up to the leopards and then some...You noticed that? Me too, but only lately. I'm happy they aren't runts anymore. They do seem to be as big, if not one or two possibly a shade larger than the Leopards. So thanks! I'm happy they are growing.

That said, you really can't see the Cobalt runt in these pics. He is indeed a runt - looks like he came from a different set of fish it's so profound. No only does he get beat up, but he is the only fish in the tank that does not eat TCB. I feed FBW twice a day, morning and evening. Then TCB sprinklings throughout the day. And that stupid fish just watches the TCB feeding frenzys, but has his own feeding frenzy on FBW every morning and evening - 'cuz he's starving.

No wonder he's a runt. Stupid fish.

[ashaysathe]

Thats fantastic .. i can see the hard work you have put in.

[GrillMaster]

Steve...You have one of the most amazing tanks on here!! you have put endless amount of time and effort into it....

So......When we gonna get together again an have a few beers? :D :D :D

[scolley]

So......When we gonna get together again an have a few beers? :D :D :DAny time pal. Just lemme know and come on by. In fact, I'm having a beer now as I grill steak, burgers and chicken. Not as good as you and Al do it, to be sure!

And as I walk between the deck and the kitchen getting stuff (clean plates, more food do grill, etc.) I keep going by the Son of Kahuna and also my quarantine with my new 3R2's from Al, and I'm tickled pink each time I look at both of them. Sorry you're not here too. Gimme a yell and we'll do it.

[subcooler]

Steve,
It was really a pleasure meeting you/wife/son @ NE Discus Mtg. a few weeks ago.
I also got a basic lesson in planted tanks from our discussion & Al's beautiful upstairs tanks!
Your tank looks beautiful & definately shows all the work pays off!
I'm really interested in starting a low tech planted tank(with Tetras @ first) not trying to learn as I go with Discus in there!
I've got loads of questions about inexpensive(but satisfactiory lighting,best substrate without CO2,plant selection, etc...)
I was greeting with a wakeup call -in the form of an outrageous summer electric bill already(minimal AIR COND. usage).Which is got me rethinking idea of setting up any new tanks!
Know anyone who wants a nice lizard(I'm sure it's his heat light running up my electric bill!):D
Just kidding he stays along with the many fish tanks!
Rob

[scolley]

Hey Rob! It was good to meet you too! We didn't talk much though... but next time we can do more.

And yes, looking at Al's tank upstairs was an education for me too! Al's a pretty modest guy, and IMO he knows more about plants than he lets on.

But his low tech formula was simple... Soilmaster Select substrate, warm water tolerant plants, slow growers (no stem plants), shrimp for algae maintenance, and not too many discus. You could do it pretty easily IMO. But there are some missing pieces to Al's magic formula that we don't have, and you should go get...

1) The light. Mark (Bastalker) said he was running an AH Supply (http://ahsupply.com/) kit. That makes a BIG difference. He's no doubt got a retro-fit kit for his hood, with one of their HO fluorescents outfits with a VERY, well effecient AH Supply reflectors. If I were you I'd get the same thing, only adjusting wattage so that your tank has the same WPG as Al's.

2) Fertilization schedule. I thought he said something about micros. Possible something else like Seachem Excel (liguid CO2) peridically. I'd query Al.

Send Al an note and find out. Or maybe it's in his thread.

Give it a go! I don't know much about low tech, but shoot me a PM if you get in trouble!

[IAMTHOMAS]

how's the tank been so far? Post some more pictures soon thanks

Thomas

[scolley]

The tank's good Thomas. I've been remis in not publishing more pics. But now that you ask, I can't very easily. My main PC died this week. It's got all my photo and FTP tools on it. But I should have a new PC up in a week or two, and will post then.

Here's a few pics in the interim.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8793_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8793_edited-1.jpg)

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8758_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8758_edited-1.jpg)

You can see that the tank doesn't have much that you would call an aquascape anymore. It's barely more than a what I call JABOP - Just a Bunch of Plants. But right now my focus is on algae and finding the right plants for the conditions. Once I get the tank's balance dialed in with the right set of plants, then I'll scape it. But this year is definately going to be my first - ever - to not enter in the AGA Aquascaping Contest. I just will not be ready.

But I can give news in text form. Here's a nutshell...

1) I got 5 Wayne Ng 3R2's from Al while at the discus meeting at his house in June.
2) At the same time I cut my photoperiod back to 7 hours, with siesta, and also cut back macros and micros. Only small amounts of K and tiny doses of Tropica Master Grow.
3) So now my algae problem is almost gone. I've to do a small wall cleaning every week, and trim old leaves. That's not so bad.
4) The 3R2 went through 6-7 weeks quarentine and then went in the tank.
5) With the exception of one or two of the 3R2, in the month that they've been in the tank I've never seen them eat. The constantly hide in the weeds.
6) I was contacted by someone the works for Tropica, and he sent me some really cool plants. I've posted more about that over at my Son of Kahuna thread at plantedtank.net and at my blog.

So, the tank's good. But I've got a real problem with these new fish. Not sure what to do. I'd take them out and put them back in my 29g, but that's not a good solution. That's a temporary tank. I can't put them in there for 5-6 months to grow them out and fatten them up. A few weeks sure. But they were already in there for a good while and were eventually eating well. And I can't leave them there for months on end - again, it's a temporary tank in a temporary tank, as per the boss (my wife).

So natures gonna have to take it's course. If they are hungry, they'll have to come out to eat.

That's all the news at Son of Kahuna. ;)

[*Polka dots roc*]

Looking really good:D hopefully they come out and eat for ya...

[GrillMaster]

I didn't know you got fish from Al! They look great in your tank bud!! :thumbsup:

Your tank looks great as well!

[IAMTHOMAS]

Hey nice tank!

What small fish is that on the bottom left corner? The last pic

[scolley]

That's a male orange Apistogramma cacatuoides, or Cockatoo Dwarf Cichlid. That's actually a pretty nice specimen too, acquired from a hobbyist in the area that raises them. There are two males and a smaller female. No breeding though. I don't think.

They get along with the discus well. Though having them means not being able to have smaller shrimp, as they will definitely eat them.

[scolley]

I haven't posted pics in forever it seems. So here's a few from the tank yesterday. It has looked worse lately, through a number of mishaps. First I changed my two filters at the same time. Wow! How stupid. That massively reduced my biofilter, and algae was the result. Still getting over that little bit of stupidity. And then I put in some new 3R2's. But I didn't medicate them while they were in quarantine, and they got sick in the big tank. So I had to medicate the big tank and THAT hurt my biofilter too, with another minor algae outbreak.

But all that was two or three weeks ago, and this is the tank today.

http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9003_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9003_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9012_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9012_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9010_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9010_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9008_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_9008_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8965_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8965_edited-1.jpg)


In the low pots above you can see two of some Tropica plants I received a little while ago. They are both supposed to work in discus temps, and I've never seen them anywhere in the sates, so I'm anxious to see how they work out. They both came in their terrestrial form and it has taken a while for them to change over. The one in the middle still shows dark green through the green leaves on top. That's the aglae that took hold on it's leaves before it started putting out it's aquatic leaf forms. And I got a third - HC like - plant, but it did not root well, and kept getting pulled up by my corys and loaches. Fortunately I have all three growing out in a terrarium for extra stock. once I figure out what kind of light they prefer, I'll bury the pots to you won't see them.


And these little guys are some 3R's I got from Kenny a couple of weeks ago. They are in my quarantine now, waiting to go into the tank in a month or so. And BTW - they are pretty red. But my Adobe software (or my camera's white balance) has made them look a bit more red in these pics than they do to the naked eye.


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8996_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8996_edited-1.jpg)


http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8986_edited-2.jpg (http://www.colley.org/images/IMG_8986_edited-1.jpg)

[ashaysathe]

Very very excellent Steve. The best is the small grass like plant in the right front corner.

I have a question/ observation - your main tank is heavily planted. Your QT is BB with sponge filters. Plus all these new fish in QT have seen nothing but BB tanks and sponge filters in their life till now. What I am getting at is - when they make the transition from this BB world into plant world - can they handle it? Remember your 3R2's were in hiding and not eating when they moved to the big tank. It may be that they are intimidated not by fish or anything just the environment. To my observation, small discus when given a chance to hide will and for sure hide than not.. its the nature of the fish. These guys may or may not do that but look similar sizewise to 3R2.

Just as a test, when you finish QT and ensure sanity with a test fish, after that instead of adding the full set can there be a trial by adding one of this QT'ed fish and see how he behaves something like QT for "environmental sync".

By no means I am challenging your judgement. A thought that came to mind...

[digthemlows]

Beautiful as always! Man, I wish I had a house that could take a tank this size! You are keeping that bar high!

[tacks]

Hi Steve as always the tank looks great. You also have some great looking fish in there. take care Ed

[scolley]

Thanks digthemlows! I get discouraged sometimes, thinking about how much better it should look. So thanks pal!

Ashay - That kind of test is unnecessary. I've put four separate multi-fish (3-5) sets of fish in my planted tanks now, and they always react the same. They hide. And then they hide a little longer. And then they come out. After a while they stay out - except when something scary happens.

The 3Rs will do the same. The only question at all is "How long will they hide?"

The 3R2's - on the other hand were different. I had four (out of five) that came out of hiding pretty soon, but then did what no other batch has ever done - after being out for a week or two, they starting hiding again. That's not plants. That's sick fish. And the fact that it changed immediately and dramatically after the week of medication (actually before it was over) is proof.

So, assuming the 3Rs aren't sick - I will prophetically medicate these in quarantine (I didn't for the 3R2's) - when I put them in with the plants, they will hide. But I'll wager now that within 2 days 3 out of 4 of them will be out all the time. The 4th is a wimp, and skittish. He may spend his days hiding with the 3R2 that's still hiding - but that was easy to predict too, just from its behavior before I too it out of quarantine. It's behavior in quarantine was so bad I almost culled it instead of putting it in my main tank. Al talked me out of it.

Also, there is EVERY possibility that my 3R2's picked up hex (or whatever it was) and worms in my tank, and succumbed (unlike my other fish) because they were stressed. I do not think this will happen to the 3Rs as they are much more vigorous than they 3R2s ever were. Just different genetics I'm sure.

Thanks for the suggestion though. But it will be fine. I'm pretty sure.

[pcsb23]

Looks very nice my friend. Looks as though have have made it slightly more formal in style, maybe that's just me though :o. Either way it is a stunning tank.

[scolley]

Thanks Paul. Yes, going more formal in style by design. Unfortunately it's just slow. It's only 1.6 watts per gallon in there - very low light by planted tank standards - so the growing is slooow. It's an exercise in patience.

I've tried to boost growth without adding light, and every attempt succeeds in growing additional algae. Tom Barr always maintains that light is your throttle and I'm certainly finding that to be the case.

Even though the style is more formal, I'm not set on this scape. I've still got some ideas that I've yet to use. But they are highly dependent on the plants. So I'm hoping for good things from these tropica plants, but GOSH! they really are slow growers.

And the plants themselves - ones that will work well in my tank, are also constrained. I've got wicked soft water - very, very, low GH, KH, Ca, Mg, etc. You name it, my water doesn't have it. And I could add stuff back, as I have in the past, but I'm trying very, very hard to not add anything back to the water OTHER than the micros and macros that are automatically dosed each day. It keeps maintenance soooo much simpler when you are not always farting around with water parameters. Ignoring them is much easier. ;)

Thanks for the comment though. It's a work in (slow) progress.

[pcsb23]

... It's an exercise in patience...Sums up discus keeping quite nicely :)

Steve most people would kill for "wickedly soft water" trust me I would!! And I agree with you about light being the throttle too. I would say that by doing less you are in fact achieving more. It looks nicely balanced.

[GrillMaster]

Still looking amazing my friend!! :thumbsup:

Is it still a brothel in there? ;) :D :D

[scolley]

Is it still a brothel in there? ;) :D :D
Not any more Mark.

I put an Eheim feeder up to make sure the little 3R2s got enough food through out the day. As a result, the fish all live under the feeder now, spreading back out only to sleep at night. As a result, none of them have territories now, and spawning has become a lot less frequent. I'm hoping that if I take the feeder away (one of these months) things will go back to their normal orgy-like way.

Last week though I came in and one fish was dark, and hanging over the plants, off by itself. And it was beat up. Bad. I've never seen anything like it in my years (all of three ;) ) of discus keeping. At first I almost posted pics, afraid that he had something. He looked so bad that I immediately considered euthanizing the fish, as my quarantine gear is all in use.

But that afternoon I had a nice spawn from a pair that the "sick" fish has tried to get involved with in the past. So I quickly concluded that the fish wasn't sick, he'd had the crap beat out of him - he is one of the bully's of the tank. so it comes as no surprise.

Maybe this temporary lack of territories caused the fight to be particularly nasty. I don't know.

The fish is better now. But I'm afraid his gill fins are going to be a ragged mess for a long time.

[GrillMaster]

Looks like yer gettin discus fever my friend! :) Quarantine tank? Next yer gonna be movin Maureens new couch aside for a lil more room and tryin yer hand at a couple a spawns... ;) :D :D

[ChloroPhil]

Steve,

Any updates on the tank?

Have you considered doing a timed addition of a GH booster to coincide with the automated water changes? Peristaltic pumps are getting pretty reasonable these days.

Cheers,
Phil

[Disgirl]

Phil, thanks for bringing this thread back so those of us who have never seen it can admire it! Steve, this is exactly what I have in mind for my tank sometime. Hope I can "copy" yours! Absolutely gorgeous! How is it doing now?
Barb :)

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

I had the pleasure of hanging out with this tank when I went to the meeting at Steves. this tank is really amazing in person, and the fish in it are now ALOT bigger. they look really great. and his automation system is awesome. everything tucked away neatly in the stand. its great...did I mention how beautiful the big big cobalts are now?! :D:D

[scolley]

Hey Phil. Barb! I'm afraid my camera has bit the dust, so taking update pics is a bit tough. Could do it with my phone I expect, but those look pretty bad IMO.

The tanks in decent shape - better looking than any of my recent pics. I've taken it back to an anubias covered driftwood look, similar in many ways to my "Kahuna's Revenge" tank, before it sprung the leak.

Phil, I'm one of the original peristaltic pump users over on planted tank. I've got four in operation at the moment. But the only dosing I'm doing on this tank is a little bit of micros every day.

I've completely backed off on ANY fertilization except micros. That's right, no NPK dosing, not even any CO2. I turned the tank off, if you can believe it. And while the tank is not lush, I don't think it looks half bad. Anubias are such slow growers, they don't need much. And any other plants are still in the same AS fillled pots that I documented earlier in this thread. So they've got most of what they need, except Potassium.

I can get away with this because my water is pretty high in NPK, and with my relatively low light - 1.66 WPG - the ferts the plants get through water changes is enough to keep them going.

It's pretty cool really... with the plants growing slowly, in low light, with low fert levels, I get very little algae. And the best part - get this (1) - if you don't count feeding fish, in the last 9 months I've put in a total of 5 hours maintenance on this tank. That includes filter cleaning, planting, plant trimming, glass cleaning, you name it. And since my water changes are all automatic, there's really little to do.

I need to get you a pic somehow, 'cuz it doesn't look half bad. Ask any of the people that just came to my house for the NEDA meeting. So feel kinda like I've hit Nirvana. I've got a pretty decent looking 180g, full of plants and discus, and I average a little more than 1/2 hour a month on maintenance. Not too bad. ;)

I'll see if I can figure out a way to get you a pic.

[ChloroPhil]

That sounds awesome Steve! I'm glad you've finally found your personal planted discus tank enlightenment. :) I'm glad to hear you're going back to Anubias. The tank never looked better than when you had all that wood, moss, and anubias growing gangbusters.

Me on the other hand...I'm getting ready to set up the 225 of my dreams. It's moderate-high light for a 24" tall with 6x55 AHSupply PC retros. I think I'm going to be leaning heavily on your big tank experience for a while. This will be the largest setup I've had in my home by far.

Would you consider selling your pumps? Shoot me a PM, your box is full.

Regards,
Phil

[scolley]

Hey folks! Long time no post...

Swinging in now to provide a "heads-up" to the fact that I'm going to sell the Sun of Kahuna. Nothing's wrong with it - never been better in fact. But the wife and I are empty nesters now, and have decided to move. And - as much as I love 'em - the tanks have to go. Please expect to see a listing in the "Buy Sell Trade" forum soon.

Anyone that has followed this thread pretty much has good insight into the tank. The minor leaks on the Ocean Clear filters were resolved when I replaced the o-rings AND one of the screw-down lids. That was years ago. Adn I had some small leaks on the Pentair heater modules - also years ago. So no leaks from anything in the system for many years now. But the electronic dual ballast powering Aqua Medic MH Oceanlights burned out a while back. So I simply pulled the original (unused) magnetic ballasts out of the attic, and they're fine.

As for the plants? Algae pretty much went away when I shut down the CO2 and stopped fert dosing. Did that more than 5 years ago, and cleaning tank walls and trimming plants magically transformed into a merely twice a year experience. FINALLY I achieved the darned-near-no-maintenance tank that was originally dreamed of. And what about the fish?

The Tefe Green discus have matured nicely. Now they are full RSG's (red spotted greens), and look fabulous. But they fight. Or at least used to. I had an alpha that was an unrelenting bully. He beat a couple to death before he succumbed himself. Now they are a mere five. But it's five that get a long well. Amazing the clean-up crew is still there, except for the school or Rummy-Nose Tetras. Not a long lived fish to begin with. But there's still around 20 or so that must have some of Methusula's genes in them somewhere.

And to my amazement, I've even got some Amano shrimp in there. I have now idea how many years it's been since I bought shrimp. But it's been quite a few. Same thing with those Methusula genes I guess.

Will try to get some pics out. Please look for the posting in the "For Sale/Trade" forum soon. :)

[rickztahone]

Hey folks! Long time no post...

Swinging in now to provide a "heads-up" to the fact that I'm going to sell the Sun of Kahuna. Nothing's wrong with it - never been better in fact. But the wife and I are empty nesters now, and have decided to move. And - as much as I love 'em - the tanks have to go. Please expect to see a listing in the "Buy Sell Trade" forum soon.

Anyone that has followed this thread pretty much has good insight into the tank. The minor leaks on the Ocean Clear filters were resolved when I replaced the o-rings AND one of the screw-down lids. That was years ago. Adn I had some small leaks on the Pentair heater modules - also years ago. So no leaks from anything in the system for many years now. But the electronic dual ballast powering Aqua Medic MH Oceanlights burned out a while back. So I simply pulled the original (unused) magnetic ballasts out of the attic, and they're fine.

As for the plants? Algae pretty much went away when I shut down the CO2 and stopped fert dosing. Did that more than 5 years ago, and cleaning tank walls and trimming plants magically transformed into a merely twice a year experience. FINALLY I achieved the darned-near-no-maintenance tank that was originally dreamed of. And what about the fish?

The Tefe Green discus have matured nicely. Now they are full RSG's (red spotted greens), and look fabulous. But they fight. Or at least used to. I had an alpha that was an unrelenting bully. He beat a couple to death before he succumbed himself. Now they are a mere five. But it's five that get a long well. Amazing the clean-up crew is still there, except for the school or Rummy-Nose Tetras. Not a long lived fish to begin with. But there's still around 20 or so that must have some of Methusula's genes in them somewhere.

And to my amazement, I've even got some Amano shrimp in there. I have now idea how many years it's been since I bought shrimp. But it's been quite a few. Same thing with those Methusula genes I guess.

Will try to get some pics out. Please look for the posting in the "For Sale/Trade" forum soon. :)

Hey Steve! Nice to see you around. Too bad about the Kahuna, but someone will get a sweet deal! Hope you've been good bud.

[scolley]

Hey Ricardo!

Thanks for the kind thoughts. But there's no "Too bad... " here. This has been 8+ years of a GREAT planted discus tank!

With it's auto-water change function, it could have been just a flat out - low maintenance - discus tank. But that just was not my "thing".

It's been a delight. Actually having hit stride in the 2nd half of its 8 or so years. First years required ironing out a few plumbing kinks, and me figuring out that the discus TOTALLY eliminated the need for me to do ANY fertilization or CO2 attition. And though it still supports that in a highly automated way, I've had that turned off for the last 4 years or so. The result has been a large planted discus tank that took d*mn near no maintenance. So I feel like this was a raging success, long term. I'm just not going to have room for a big tank moving forward.

I'll be posting it for sale as a single thing: fish, plants, tank, and ALL the supporting equipment. I'd make more money parting it out. But I'm so happy with the result, it'd break my heart to have it disassembled. But... life is all about change. And this was one delightful journey. :)

I'll get a post out soon.

[Filip]

The original father kahuna, was one of my favorite discus planted tanks. His son was also a great discus scape.
I'm lookin forward for your next projects,whether is discus or not.