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brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 10:26 AM
Hi all,

Awhile back Rod asked me to take some pics of my fish more often.....so I finally took some new pics. These are some of the heckels I am working with and hope to one day breed.

Hope you enjoy them.

Comments are welcome...

Thanks,

-al

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 10:28 AM
a few more...


hope you enjoy them.

thanks,
al

Kenny's Discus
06-26-2007, 10:35 AM
I do like them a lot Al, especially the pronounced middle bars on them. Just a silly question from me:p, does the heckle bar always show? Does it go away sometimes like for instance Turks do? (I never have Heckle adults:o)

Thanks for sharing Al,
Kenny

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 10:48 AM
Thanks Kenny!


Just a silly question from me:p, does the heckle bar always show? Does it go away sometimes like for instance Turks do? (I never have Heckle adults:o)

They always have the middle bar , but can invert it and change its intensity.


Last set of pics for now..

-al

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 10:49 AM
....

Ryan
06-26-2007, 11:05 AM
I never get sick of seeing heckel pictures. They look awesome :thumbsup:

tpl*co
06-26-2007, 11:13 AM
I do like them a lot Al, especially the pronounced middle bars on them. Just a silly question from me:p, does the heckle bar always show? Does it go away sometimes like for instance Turks do? (I never have Heckle adults:o)

Thanks for sharing Al,
Kenny

So.... When are you getting some heckels Kenny? ;).

I like the looks of heckels (especially the blue faced ones) and the center bar too. Al, yours look great! (too many nice fish, too little tank space :p)

Tina

Moon
06-26-2007, 12:43 PM
Al
Really nice looking Heckels. A few questions:
How big are they?
How long have you had them?
Are you keeping them in soft low ph water?
I've only had mine since Feb of this year. They appear to be very slow growers compared to domestic discus.
Good luck and hope they breed for you.
Joe

Ed13
06-26-2007, 12:55 PM
And to add to the questions posted by Moon
Tank size?
Diet?
Collection place?
how many per tank?
How many are you going to send me?;)
heckel me!!!lol

Great heckels, and yes I would like it if you showed us your collection more often!

I think one day it'll happen for me!

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 01:01 PM
Hi Joe,
I have a few different tanks of them ranging from 4" on up. The largest and oldest group are about 5.5-6" tip to tail. The heckels I have posted here I have had most since dec/jan ..

I keep all my wilds (heckels and all others) in tap water... pH is 7.00-7.6... 350us... The exception is an any adults I am trying to breed...then its an RO mix. and I shoot for a pH in the 5.5-6.5 range.

I have not noticed any real lag in growth, but I see growth spurts... my smallest sized ones seemed to junp from 3" to 4" overnight....but that coincided with a move from a 75 gal... to a 125 gal tank.


what do you feed yours ?

-al

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 01:15 PM
Hi Ed,

Thank you!:)

Really and honestly... I don't treat my heckels and other wilds any different than I do my domestics...most of the time they are mixed as well with domestics. Some have driftwood, all are barebottom tanks,some have fake silk plants as an accent area...and most have pothos rooted in the water.


Collection places with any wilds...I take with a grain of salt.. unless you collect them yourself...you never know really...but I am reasonably sure that I have a few groups from the Rio negro area, and Rio Unini area.

Food...same as all others.. a mix of flake, pellets(multiple brands), frzn blood worms and brine shrimp, home made seafood mix, and beefheart mix.

tank sizes... mostly 75 gals tanks, and and 1 each 125gal... fish per tank...same as all else.. 7-9 per 75 gal...

hth,
al

Ed13
06-26-2007, 01:27 PM
home made seafood mix

I'm interested in the seafood mix, have you posted the recipe before, I already have your Bh recipe:thumbsup:

And thank YOU AL!!!!;):D I don't think I've missed too many pics you've posted, and I'm always impressed!

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 01:37 PM
Hi Ed,
Thank you for the kind words! I try.:)

my seafood mix... it does vary but here you go..the basic recipe...


5 pounds shelled raw shrimp
2 pound bay scallops raw
1 pound salmon fillet
2 pounds white fillets...I like using pollock, haddock, flounder when avail
multivitamens (3-4 powdered 1 a day human types)
1 cup spirulina flake
1 cup seafood flake (hBH brand) optional
1/2 cup Brine shrimp direct non-hatching decaps

Grind all fish and shrimp..one pass.. I use a manual sausage type grinder..

Mix all ingredients by hand... store in freezer in zip lock bags



at feeding... I cut on a cutting board while semi frozen and slice and dice to bite size pieces.

wolfbane
06-26-2007, 02:14 PM
I've never had much interest in heckels, but you've changed my mind Al, those are beauties!!! Yours seem to have great color and shape, their keeper must be very proud!

Rod
06-26-2007, 03:23 PM
Beautiful Al, really nice discus. One of them appears to be eyeing out that pot mate, any shake, rattle and roll happening?

One question i have, your heckels appear to have beautiful orange to red colored eyes. Many heckels i have seen have black colored eyes. Is that a normal variation found in wild heckels? or is it a health issue?

Rod:)

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 03:34 PM
Hi Debbie,
I am proud ...very proud...I'm very attached to these heckels!



Thanks Rod, I have my eye on two in one of the tanks that I am very hopeful of...nothing yet but dominance to the group.;):)


On the eye color...I'm not an expert by any means..but based on the groups I have from multiple collections areas...I think alot is natural variation just as in the other wilds.. and probably to a degree collection location..

It may be only from my small sample here...but those with more blue seem to have more red in the eye. The Heckels from rio negro that I have now and have had in the past....seem to be darker eyes and more drab in the body.....


Also to note....mine are all in Light painted tanks...and I have found that definetly affects the appearance just as it does for many domestics.

I have seen many heckels over the years that had dark eyes which were hazed over lightly... not bright and shiny..That I feel is in response to poor water quality..

hth,
al

Moon
06-26-2007, 04:12 PM
Hi Joe,
I have a few different tanks of them ranging from 4" on up. The largest and oldest group are about 5.5-6" tip to tail. The heckels I have posted here I have had most since dec/jan ..

I keep all my wilds (heckels and all others) in tap water... pH is 7.00-7.6... 350us... The exception is an any adults I am trying to breed...then its an RO mix. and I shoot for a pH in the 5.5-6.5 range.

I have not noticed any real lag in growth, but I see growth spurts... my smallest sized ones seemed to junp from 3" to 4" overnight....but that coincided with a move from a 75 gal... to a 125 gal tank.


what do you feed yours ?

-al

Thanks Al
I feed mine three times a day.
Mornings: Good quality flake
Afternoon: FBH or FBW
Evenings: FBS or Mysis

Joe

billeagan
06-26-2007, 04:18 PM
Gorgeous! Every tank should have at least one wild heckel!

pcsb23
06-26-2007, 04:23 PM
Al,

Can I have my heckels back now? :D

I'm officially jealous, wonderful fish.

brewmaster15
06-26-2007, 04:32 PM
Bill, I agree 100%...I can't wait for the season to start again...I'm going to be picking up some more then.:)


Paul... Looks like we are even ...I feel the same about your wild blues.:)

-al

Tropical Haven
06-26-2007, 04:45 PM
I am not a wild discus lover but those are some really nice wilds AL, keep up the great work and let us know when you finally get a pair.

alxjss
06-26-2007, 06:03 PM
Hi Al..
Well, gorgeous. I don't no if i spelled that right but u got it right? A few ?'s for u. Okay, these r heckels. Can u tell me how many different types of wilds there r? Also, how did the different strains come along. So diff. from domestic?
thanks

Jeff B
06-26-2007, 06:54 PM
"I have seen many heckels over the years that had dark eyes which were hazed over lightly... not bright and shiny..That I feel is in response to poor water quality.."

You may well have a point there Al ... I regularly visit a "wild" importer who quite often has the odd fish / batch that show this trait. One of these I actually bought ... a Nhamunda Blue. It's a fabulous fish ( very similar to your avataor ), Something like 8 months on ... the eyes are exactly the same .... but no amount of gill problems ... everything else in the tank is fine. Leads me to conclude ... as you say, it's either water quality, habitat or even genetics.

Elite Aquaria
06-26-2007, 07:15 PM
Al,

Awesome looking fish...:D

Dan

Darren's Discus
06-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Hi all,

Hope you enjoy them.

Comments are welcome...

Thanks,

-al
Al ,i would enjoy them alot more if they were in my tanks,mate they are superb looking heckels all the best with them thanks for sharing.


cheers

tacks
06-27-2007, 07:16 PM
Al as they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Very nice anda great job but who would expect anything else. When the season comes I will be buying. take care Ed

Ed13
06-27-2007, 11:33 PM
Al as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
But a thousand words can't describe the beauty of those fish and that setup! So, more pics to shut me up;) please!

Rod
06-28-2007, 03:47 AM
But a thousand words can't describe the beauty of those fish and that setup! So, more pics to shut me up;) please!

here here...we know you have more beautiful discus Al :D

brewmaster15
06-28-2007, 06:56 AM
LOl, you guys are too much!:)

weekends coming up so I will try and take some more pics then.;):)

Thanks everyone for the comments on my heckels..

-al

Polar_Bear
06-28-2007, 07:26 AM
Beautiful S. discus Al! They all look extremely healthy, nice red eyes. What is your wc regimen? How often do you worm them? Lastly, on the boards you always read that Heckels are far more sedate than other discus, do you find this is true? I know in my case mine, which are in a 75 gallon, act evey bit like all other discus, same pecking order wars, same overall behavior.
On another note, it's good to hear that you keep your wilds in "regular" water. I went to half tap and half RO since you always hear wilds lose their color when kept at higher pH and/or hardness, something that I have found not to be true in my case.

pinkertd
06-28-2007, 07:53 AM
Hi Al,

Beautiful beautiful fish!! Thanks for posting pics and sharing. 20 years ago and before the age of the info-internet... this is what you'd find occasionally in a fish shop. Sick of course, not healthy like yours, but mysteriously beautiful enough to steal your heart....and of course I had to buy them only to have the heartache of them dying. Gonna get me some wilds one day so best spawning wishes to them!!:D:D

brewmaster15
06-28-2007, 08:04 AM
Hi Larry,
I really don't treat the heckels any different than my other wilds and domestics...I've always done this..... I think that theres a large amount of mystery surrounding the Heckels that lends itself to many myths.

On the soft acidic water....I don't think any discus "need" it to thrive..... I think clean, stable, and low bioload water is most important......but I do think that both domestic and wilds benefit from acidic soft water greatly in many ways.... Its only natural since thats what they evolved in... we certainly won't hurt a wild discus or heckel with it..:). but I have found my well water to work just fine for me. I'm sure thats not something that can be said for everyone as theres a tremendous range of waters out there....but here....well water is fine.

My water changes on the 75 gal tanks....are about 30% daily.. these tanks have between 7-9 heckels, and consist of 2-3 hydro 4 and 5's as well as a aquaclear 110 power filter....The tanks often house a couple wild bristlenose plecos... Of note... my kH here is less than 1 and so its not unusual for my pH to drift down over time...especially in the driftwood tanks....when this happens...I usually follow up with a large water change of 50-80%.

deworming...when I first get wilds in I treat them with prazi for tape worms and flukes.....Next I treat externally with quick cure for a week, last I treat as a bath with a broad spectrum dewormer.... Levamisole is my choice these days... but I have also used flubendazole when I have it. I will use panacur(fenbendazole) in food mixes....and if a wild comes in really looking bad...I sometimes will gavage( tube in ) panacur...

I generally deworm initially...follow up 2-3 weeks latter and then not again unless I suspect a problem.....

Behaviorally... I have found the young heckels to be a timid group, but once they start to grow and mature..they are every bit as much a "discus" as their non-heckel counterparts..... I also want to add that I have found they really do just as well with other wilds and domestics....


These are just my observations though, others I am sure will differ.

Thanks,
al

senso
06-30-2007, 06:25 AM
Since I have recently seen these fish, I can assert that although Al's photos are good, these fish are even nicer in the real flesh.
The interesting thing to me was the eyes - clear and bright. If one compares the photos of other heckels posted on this site, you will see a dramatic difference in eye color and clarity. Some appear dark and opaque.
Can anyone explain the reason for this? Is it water conditions?

Apistomaster
06-30-2007, 11:53 AM
I know that photos of my Heckels taken with my point and shoot Olympus SP-320 digital camera show a lot of flash bounce in their eyes. It can make them appear as though their eyes aren't clear. When a friend of mine uses his Nikon DSLR their eyes appear natural. Sometimes it's easy to see whether the fish are healthy by seeing how thick they are.

I'm not an expert on photography but I think because there is so little parallax with point and shoot's flash and lense compared to the Nikon set up which is also using a strong flash and longer telephoto lenses there isn't that direct bounce back from the eyes. Basically a $300 camera can't compete with a $1500 camera/lense combo. Especially when he uses slave flash coming in at all the right angles. Then the photos really show off the fish well.

As Al has mentioned, healthy discus have clear eyes but just as "red eye" is an artifact of flash and blood vessels on the retina so can the difference one can see in Discus photos. It is a photographic problem that is greater in my Heckel photos than all other types of discus I've photographed. It just disappears with better equipment than I own.
Heckel eye colors are quite variable also, depending on which population they are from. Some have very red eyes while others may have darker eyes. In Bleher's Discus Vol. 1, one can observe a wide range of eye colors among fish that have been photographed immediately after capture.

Fortunately the Heckels see fine and who knows, one of these days we will get some successful spawns? That's the goal.
Al's Heckels are happy, healthy and beautiful.
It is hard to pick favorites when it comes to wild Discus but the Heckel is a special species for some of us.

Polar_Bear
06-30-2007, 12:26 PM
I know that photos of my Heckels taken with my point and shoot Olympus SP-320 digital camera show a lot of flash bounce in their eyes. It can make them appear as though their eyes aren't clear. When a friend of mine uses his Nikon DSLR their eyes appear natural. Sometimes it's easy to see whether the fish are healthy by seeing how thick they are.

I'm not an expert on photography but I think because there is so little parallax with point and shoot's flash and lense compared to the Nikon set up which is also using a strong flash and longer telephoto lenses there isn't that direct bounce back from the eyes. Basically a $300 camera can't compete with a $1500 camera/lense combo. Especially when he uses slave flash coming in at all the right angles. Then the photos really show off the fish well.

As Al has mentioned, healthy discus have clear eyes but just as "red eye" is an artifact of flash and blood vessels on the retina so can the difference one can see in Discus photos. It is a photographic problem that is greater in my Heckel photos than all other types of discus I've photographed. It just disappears with better equipment than I own.
Heckel eye colors are quite vaariable also, depending on which population they are from. Some have very red eyes while others may have darker eyes. In Bleher's Discus Vol. 1, one can observe a wide range of eye colors among fish that have been photographed immediately after capture.

Fortunately the Heckels see fine and who knows, one of these days we will get some successful spawns? That's the goal.
Al's Heckels are happy, healthy and beautiful.
It is hard to pick favorites when it comes to wild Discus but the Heckel is a special species for some of us.

I agree with this. I know my Heckels all have nice red, clear eyes, but you could never tell that from my photos.

Apistomaster
06-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Hi polarbear,
It's really frustrating isn't it? Other discus' eyes usually show up true to life in photos but capturing the Heckel in it's perfection is extraordinarily difficult challenge.

I guess as long as they are looking good in our care that is reward enough.

brewmaster15
07-01-2007, 08:22 AM
Hi Larry and Larry,
Not sure why you have difficulty with the heckel photos but I suspect its lighting.... the flash on the camera and the tank itself (dark Substrates can fool sensors and flashes are not as effective as in a light substrate.). Heckels really arent any different than any other discus with regards to the way they photograph, Imo. Theres probably a practice factor in there...photography is a hobby of mine.

on my digital camera... Its really nothing special...its an old Nikon point and shoot 4500 series camera.... 4 megapixels. most newer cameras in the $200 range probably have better imaging and flash systems as the techology has improved so much since I bought it.

Anyhow,
Thank you both for your comments!:)

-al

senso
07-01-2007, 10:35 AM
Thanks everyone. btw, Apistomaster, your group looks great.
To rephrase my question rather than offending anyone's fish or photography, are eyes a good indicator of health. I have seen discus with opaqueness and dark eyes, what does this indicate if anything.

brewmaster15
07-01-2007, 10:46 AM
Hi Rossano,


. I have seen discus with opaqueness and dark eyes, what does this indicate if anything. yes I believe it does. It often means the discus are not healthy. I have seen it more often in wilds and its almost always accompanied by high bioloads in the water....clean water low bioloads and the fish lose that opaqueness. A Fishes eyes should never be opaque and dull..they should be clear and bright.


I have no proof, but suspect its largely due to bacteria ....too much bacteria and possible a subsequent immune response....thats just a guess.

-al

senso
07-01-2007, 10:57 AM
Al

There have been times that I have noted the eyes in one of my wilds is a little opaque, and then a few hours later clear and bright. The opaqueness is often associated with a change in skin coloration (dull, blackish).

My thought that with adult wilds, if there is any courting, territory fighting or elements of aggression, some of the fish tend to change color completely, largely as a defense reaction.

Interestingly, photography at times brings this on too.

Ed13
07-01-2007, 01:06 PM
LOl, you guys are too much!:)

weekends coming up so I will try and take some more pics then.;):)

Thanks everyone for the comments on my heckels..

-al
:o Me thinks the weekend is here;):D

:fish:

brewmaster15
07-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Lol Ed,

Notice I didn't say which weekend was coming up.;):)

-al

ps...I'll see what I can do, I got busy unexpectedly.

FishyMatty
07-29-2007, 05:48 PM
I spent a few hours in brews fish room today and his heckels are the most beautiful fish I've ever seen. He has some paired with domestics and he even has a a full tank of 1" fry from a heckel/domestic broom. Brewmaster is honestly amazing.

Ed13
07-29-2007, 05:57 PM
Lol Ed,

Notice I didn't say which weekend was coming up.;):)

-al

ps...I'll see what I can do, I got busy unexpectedly.
Are we there yet????!:D

Condor
07-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Fantastic thread, Al. Really beautiful fish.

Adrian:)

brewmaster15
07-29-2007, 09:11 PM
Hi Matt,

thanks for the kind words!:)


he even has a a full tank of 1" fry from a heckel/domestic broom. Brewmaster is honestly amazing. God, I wish that was so... Those fry are from a wild blue X Domestic red turq...I have one pair of heckels though that I am very optimistic...maybe soon I'll have something there...In the meanwhile...I keep my fingers and toes crossed.;):)


Thanks Adrian! and Ed, we'll see.... we'll see.:D

-al

GrillMaster
10-24-2007, 06:59 PM
I have one pair of heckels though that I am very optimistic...maybe soon I'll have something there...In the meanwhile...I keep my fingers and toes crossed.;):)

-al

Saw a whole lotta shakin goin on while I was there today! :D Everywhere...Not just the Heckel tanks.:crazy:

They are awsome lookin fish for sure. You have me thinking heckels for my 75G now Al. Tell em to hurry up!! :D ;)

Seriously!...

tc
Mark

Cosmo
10-24-2007, 07:24 PM
Never get tired of looking at these pics Al :)

Puts ideas into my head though that have no need being there right now :p :D

pcsb23
10-25-2007, 01:12 PM
Never get tired of looking at these pics Al :)

Puts ideas into my head though that have no need being there right now :p :D
too true :D

GrillMaster
10-25-2007, 09:38 PM
Never get tired of looking at these pics Al :)

Puts ideas into my head though that have no need being there right now :p :D

I hear ya! He does it to me all the time!

I am tryin to fit 10 lbs a $@#! in a 5 lb bag at the moment!!:crazy:

tc
Mark

Anthony
10-28-2007, 09:31 PM
Al, I have finally landed at your :shocked:awesome, :thumbsup:beautiful Discus collection here....very impressive Heckel at your collection. Those heckel with ticker Bar is always:rolleyes: my Dream Discus......how wish if I could have them collected in my tank......:bounce2::bounce2::bounce2:

brewmaster15
10-29-2007, 07:26 PM
Thanks Anthony!

I'm hopeful that I'll have more of them, bred here now:)

Thanks again.

-al