mixing different species/subspecies

[angelover]

Hi is it okay to mix the different types of discus together? Such as some brown and some blue and some other kind of strains or do they prefer to be with others that look just like them. It seems like most displays i've seen have been with a single species. I wanted to put up a display of each discus with a different color and pattern. But is this not a good idea? thanks for any response.

[Polar_Bear]

Actually there are only two species of discus, Symphysodon discus and Symphysodon aequifaciatus, most domestic strains are derived from S. aequifaciatus. Many people mix different strains together, the only time this might cause a problem is when two strains that shouldn't, spawn.

[Lisachromis]

There are 3 species of discus. Depending on which person's thinking you follow, you can have either:

(Sven Kullander)
Symphysodon aequifasciatus
S. discus (Heckel discus)
S. tarzoo (Tefe discus - red spotted greens)

The other way is:

(Heiko Bleher)
S. aequifasciatus
S. discus (Heckels)
S. haraldi (blue discus)

[Apistomaster]

In Sven Kullander's book, Cichlid Fishes of the Amazon River in Peru where he lays out his proposed discus species' names he does conclude the following:
"Our knowledge of the phylogenetic relationships and primary taxonomy of the genus Symphysodon remain only superficial. The results of further research may completely support, correct, or overturn what is stated here."

I have a preference for H. Bleher's proposed naming of the four primarily recognized species and/or color varieties.
My experience with breeding many wild blues and browns make me agree with Bleher that they are one and the same species. They freely interbreed producing fertile young and are far more well adapted to a wider range of water chemistries than the Green and Heckel discus. both of which are decidedly more difficult to breed in captivity.
Greens are easier to breed than Heckels by far but that is not to say they are easy. I have had only a few pair of greens breed for me and the effort put into those projects was far greater than required of any Blue/Browns.
All my remarks are pertaining only to wild caught Discus.
Heckels are by far the most difficult of all discus to breed in captivity.

Choosing what species and/or domestic color varieties to keep together is purely a matter of personal esthetics and breeding goals.
Most Domestic color strains are rather well fixed and unless one has a specific goal in mind haphazard crossing is not likely to produce a fish as desirable as either parent stock.
If one has a large aquarium two groups of complimentary color forms can make a very pleasing display. My personal tastes run towards keeping only one color variety in a display or one of the wild species rather than combining the different types but the discus themselves do not care.

[Discus-Hans]

I think you go a little to deep in the answer on this question, lol

YES Angelover, you can mix all you want, only don't mix wild with bred forms because they do better on diverent water qualities.

When you take bred forms in your show tank mix what ever you want, the Discus won't mind.

Best is to buy your Discus from one source because mixing sources CAN bring you in troubles,

Best regards,

Hans

[angelover]

Thankis everyone! you've all been very helpful.:)

[Polar_Bear]

Lisa,
What Mr's Bleher and Kulander "think" makes absolutely no difference as to what "is". As I type this, mine is the only correct answer, there are only two species. Whether or not this changes in time I don't know, but at the moment S. discus, and S. aequifasciatus are the only reconized discus species.

[Apistomaster]

Lisa,
What Mr's Bleher and Kulander "think" makes absolutely no difference as to what "is". As I type this, mine is the only correct answer, there are only two species. Whether or not this changes in time I don't know, but at the moment S. discus, and S. aequifasciatus are the only reconized discus species.

Almost no discus authority believes their are only two species.
What you base this on is an accident of poor research and history.
And "facts" played no role in the current state of L.P. Schultz's classification scheme. Patronage and sloppiness were far more influential.
What species are recognized by the wild discus is what makes a difference to the fish themselves since given any choice in the matter they will breed with their own species.

[Polar_Bear]

Larry,
Until such time as the ideas have been peer reveiwed and the names are taxanomically changed what you or I think matters not one whit. At this time there are two reconized species of discus, period. You may not agree with the classification, I sure don't, but that does not change anything. I am only making this opposition because I want to point out to you, Lisa and all who are reading this that until the name is changed according to the rules the names remain the same. It may interest some to check out this page http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/NomenClature/ScientificNameSearchList.php?crit1_fieldname=SYNON YMS.SynGenus&crit1_fieldtype=CHAR&crit1_operator=EQUAL&crit1_value=symphysodon&crit2_fieldname=SYNONYMS.SynSpecies&crit2_fieldtype=CHAR&crit2_operator=contains&crit2_value=&group=summary&backstep=-2 go there and then click on "Only Reconized Names". It is correct. This situation is already too confused as is. You and Lisa are doing nothing, and incorrectly so, to mitigate this.

[Lisachromis]

You have to be careful in following only what fishbase tells you. There have been many errors found there. Fishbase is a database created by people and as such, contains errors.

You can also check out this link.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=1145

I've stated 2 people's views on how many species of discus they believe to be true. Both of their work is being checked into by others. I don't know which one is correct (I have a suspicion, but I'll keep that to myself). But I find it strange that both agree on 3 species and Kullander is not known for splitting species up.

Of course, this is my opinion and you may take it as such.

[Lisachromis]

Interesting info found here since this topic is still fresh in people's minds

http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2039&view=unread#p18359