How do you cycle and kEEP a QT tank cycled???

[sophie68]

Hi all,

Keeping a QT cycled has been a real challenge for me, especially when I have had to use meds thak kill the bio filter such as Fluke Tabs...I have been fighting ammonia and nitrite....So, how do you manage to KEEP your QT tank cycled???? I have been adding Bio-zyme and doing daily WCs but it is not always enough. I am using the Eheim Liberty Hang on filters which come with sponges and bio-sponges. I also add, when I have to, another hang on filter with ammonia remover when I get ammonia readings. Is that a good idea??? Currently, I am treating 2 discus in 2 tanks. They both have hex and it's hard to fight the ammonia. Any help is very welcome! One tank is 15 gallon (it also has 2 sponge filters in it!!!!), the other one is 10 gallon. Thanks!

Sophie

[mmorris]

I am guessing you are treating with metro, which I do not think hurts the bio. Someone will correct me if I am wrong. Use some bio media from an established tank. Martha

[Graham]

Needless to say you're fighting a loosing battle. It's impossible to keep bacteria alive in one section of the system and kill it in another.

Feed lightly and just before each med repeat, do a large water change like 75%>80%.

If the pH is low like down around 7.2 or lower then all the ammonia is in the form of ammonium and is harmelss. A bit of salt like 1 teaspoon per gallon will protetc the fish from any nitrite.

Graham

[billeagan]

put a sponge filter in your regular tank for a day or two and then into the QT tank.

I would keep one running all the time for htis purpose - you could accomplish the same thing if you are running a bio wheel on your main tank

[tbrat]

The trick I use for that issue....is that I keep a couple of cull fish in the tanks. That is till I get new fish to qt, then I put the culls in with one of the other discus tanks I have till the end of qt. Then back in they go and stay!;)

good luck!!
brat

[sophie68]

Hi guys,
Thanks for all your suggestions. Obviously, there are no single and simple options....:) But I like the idea of putting my sponge filter in my main tank and then bringing it back.

Sophie

[Polar_Bear]

IMO Graham's is the only correct answer here. Taking a sponge filter to and from an established tank is the best way I can think of to break quarantine (sorry Bill). Just do daily large water changes and don't worry about having an active biological filter in your QT. I do it all the time with great sucess. The only disagreement I have with Graham is that NH3 becomes NH4 in most water at pH 6.8 not 7.2, but that truly is quibbling on my part.

[Tropical Haven]

What I normally do is leave my QT tank empty with 2 sponges in it and feed my filters with ammonia every other day to keep them in top shape so if something does happen my tank is already to go.

[Elite Aquaria]

Scott,

But the big problem here is as soon as meds are introduced the Bio load is dead. I do like Graham suggested. Big water changes and little feeding.

Dan

[Tropical Haven]

Dan,
I understand what you are saying 100% and you are right my friend, but the tank I am talking about is when I receive new fish. If I have to treat sick fish I use a totally different tank without any filters and do major water changes while they are being treated, sorry about the confusion. ;)

[Elite Aquaria]

:thumbsup:

[tcyiu]

I didn't see this mentioned so I thought I would bring it up. If you do move established filters back and forth, make sure you're not bringing meds or nasty buggies back to the main tank. In other words, once a filter has done its duty in the QT tank, thoroughly rinse it to get rid of meds and sanitize it first. Then return it to the main tank for it to re-mature.

In my case, I use an Eheim cannister with filter floss. Taking a wad of mature filter floss (not the clogged floss) from the cannister is all I need to get the QT filter going.

Tim

[Apistomaster]

You just can worry about the nitrogen cycle bacteria in QT tanks if the meds being used kill the bacteria. Just keep the pH less than 7.0 and change water enough to stay ahead of the curve and replace the meds to maintain the dosage level.

In most cases of receiving and QT Discus I just use mild treatments like salt 1 tspn/gal., raise the temp to 88-90F and enough methylene blue to make it hard to see the fish if they are really banged up. I do this for only the first five days. This method doesn't seem to harm an established sponge filter nor do the de-worming drugs as far as I know which can be used from the beginning.

This takes care of the normal scrapes, bruises and begins to reduce the numbers of the worm parasites. I don't perceive the need for other drugs unless one has a specific problem to deal with. There are actually very few fish diseases which are truly treatable. Mainly Protozoan skin parasites, the worms, fin rot and fungus. Major internal diseases which are manifested by symptoms like "popeye" or dropsy are not treatable.
So much relies on the state of a given fish's immune system and will to live. Very few miracles are sold in a package.

[sophie68]

Hi everybody,
Thanks for this very interesting discussion. But I always assume gill flukes when I get new discus and Fluke Tabs DOES kill your bio filter. It's not always that easy to keep your PH under 7 either. I mean, sometimes HUGE WC stress out a fish. For instance, since I use my tap water (which is decent and I also add some form of very basic R/O water), I never change more than 50% in my main tank. Strangely enough, when I got back from vacation, with less food and less WC, my fish had become HUGE and had laid eggs!!!!! So, I am a bit confused here...:confused::confused::confused:
Anyway, it makes sense that if I feed more, I need more WC.
Going back to the QT tank, I found that when I got some nitrite, even the big WC did not always take care of it. Maybe I am feeding too much???? It can be tough to get rid of nitrite. I guess using Prime would be fine, no?????

Sophie

[mmorris]

But I always assume gill flukes when I get new discus... Strangely enough, when I got back from vacation, with less food and less WC, my fish had become HUGE and had laid eggs!!!!!

Are you buying your discus from the LFS? I buy from a sponsor, and then gill flukes are the LAST thing on my mind. Also, it is highly likely that your fish would have grown and would have produced eggs had you remained at home. Congrats, by the way! :D
Martha

[FishLover888]

There is a simple solution to this. Just drop in one raw shrimp you get from the food store in there you will have a cycled tank in few weeks. Keep a raw shimp in there all the time to feed the filter till you are ready to drop in the new fish. Just take out the raw shrimp and you will be fine.:)

[Graham]

Instead of having rotting organics in the tank just buy a bottle or pure ammonia and add a cc or so every few days....:bandana:

[woodenfish]

Precisely which medications destroy or seriously hamper nitrification bacteria?

I think it is helpful to make a list, so do and some don't.

I think such knowledge is good to have.

[Cow Doc 09]

Metronidazole does not kill the biological filter. It has a spectrum against certain protists and is strictly an ANAEROBIC bacteria antimicrobial. All the nitrifying bacteria are strictly AEROBIC, and metro will not hurt them.

[woodenfish]

Maracyn (regular), kanamycin and neomycin do not wipe out nitrification bacteria, just depress them somewhat.

I think Maracyn (regular) and kanamycin are used in freshwater, but I don't know about Neomycin.

[sophie68]

Thanks guys for all the precious info!:antlers:

Sophie