Hi, Help me make the best of a bad situation...

[shakey_snake]

Discus n00b here,
So, as of two days, I'm the proud owner of my first three discus.
The problem being, I didn't expect any fish at all.

The Rundown:
I've kept fish for about 5 years. For the last 4 years, it has been the same Tiger barbs In a 6 gallon Eclipse. (which probably isn't enough swim space for the active fish they are). I've also worked some at my parents pet store, which for the past year and a half has sold freshwater fish. So I have a little more experience than it may sound.

Well, I asked for a large tank for my birthday this year, hoping to put Discus in it.
What I got was my parents 29 gallon (30x18x12) tank and stand with a new Marineland C-160 canister filter, a new Glass top, a New 30" CoraLife t5 twin-tube colormax fixture, and a new heater. Not a bad set-up, right? I was very happy with it, and very thankful. I didn't think a 29 gallon was probably big enough for discus, so i had figured if they did give me their 29 (which I had a suspicion they'd do) I'd probably go with an African cichlid setup.

The Problem:
Not only did I get the setup when I went to grandma's Sat. but I also got (surprise!) 3 discus. I told my Dad that I couldn't take them until I cycled my tank. He then told me that he had no where of putting them as his Discus stock/Display tank was being taken down in order to make room for a new saltwater setup and that they had no where to go except with me. He then said, "if they don't make it through the cycle, they're just fish, and they didn't cost us anything" :flame:. So I begrudgingly took them.

The Fish:
So, they where in bags for probably 8 hours on Saturday. One large yellow one (4.5"), a small blue one (2") and a small yellow one with heavy peppering (2.5"). I'm thinking the smaller two might be stunted; I'll post pics in a bit. They surprisingly ate all three times I fed them yesterday. frozen bloodworms, New Life Discus Granules, and then bloodworms again.

The Water:
So, right now the tank is bare bottomed. Sat. night I basically filled the tank, turned on the heater, conditioned it (I use Seachem Prime), set up the canister, rinsed the media, I seeded the filter with a bag of Rings I had had in my Eclipse 6, primed the filter, and when the temp came up to 84F (from 82, I'm pretty good at guessing), started acclimating the fish. I've also gave the water the starter shot of Stability. An hour later, they were in the tank.
I did yesterday, and plan on continuing to do 9 gallon (33% ) water changes twice a day, until I get some nitrates, at which point I'll probably start cutting back. I'm alos adding Stability daily, as per the package.

pH is at about 8.0-8.5 Neither of my test kits do a real good job at indicating a precise pH when it's that high.

There's no visible water quality problems, and Each time I test it expecting to see some ammonia, I find none.

The question I originally came her with was whether I needed to lower my tap water's naturally high pH. (I know from my other experience that pH droppers and rasiers cause more problems than they solve, but I somehow had concluded that Discus were the exception to the rule (aka they actually necessitated lower pH)) But after browsing and reading some of the great materials you guys have, I've concluded that they'll be OK.
(btw, why do new members waiting on moderation validation have lower privileges than guests? :wasntme: I had to actually log out to read some threads)

So my main questions:
Is my water change regiment going to be enough for a while?
Should I need to add salt once I start seeing some nitrites?
Is a 29G going to be big enough for them, or should I try to find them another permanent home? (I actually have a 30 long 36x17x12 they I was actually thinking about moving them into once I can buy a hood, light and stand for it I figure they'd appreciate the extra 6" of swim space)

I have a bottle of Seachem "Discus Trace" should I be adding this, or is this something you add to RO'd water? I presume that my water is pretty alkaline (seeing as it's as basic as it is), but I need to go get GH, KH, nitrite and nitrate test kits.

Thanks in advance for reading all that dribble.
I'm really hoping to become an active member here, but this isn't the best start into Discus land. :)

[back 2 discus biz]

Hi there,

I am not one of the experts here and will defer to their excellent guidance but you said you worked at a pet store and that the tank the discus came from was being torn down. If that was a fully cycled tank (or others in the store) you could nab a filter or rings that are fully colonized and insert them in your new tank to jumpstart the cycle.

I've seen that discus need about 10 gallons per fish so with a BB tank your are there volume-wise but many will say three is a bad number of discus to have as two will surely team against one (either the smallest or the weakest) a make life pretty miserable. The fact there are no hiding places and that they are different sizes will compound the problem. Aggression, in my experience, usually starts after a few days of acclimation and settling.

As for the pH I will defer to the experts but many have had success at higher pH. However, discus prefer lower so why not slowly adjust these parameters to what they like? I think the lower pH will also lesson the toxicity of ammonia. If you keep doing the water changes and adding the Prime you should keep the Ammonia, Nitrates, and Nitrates in check. Careful of feeding amounts during the tank's break in period.

So, I guess my plan would depend of the level of aggression you are getting. You would normally want to add more discus to dissipate the aggression but your tank is not big enough or cycled. Hang in there with what your are doing if they are getting along. If not, you would need to consider a larger cycled tank with more size-matched (quarantined if possible) discus. Six is usually the preferred number. If that is not financially possible you might need to remove any fish that may get singled out.

Hope that helps but let's see what the great folks here have to say about it.

Paul

[Don Trinko]

Keep testing for amonia and nitrites. WC will help with both but don't hesitate to use chemicals if neccisary. Salt will keep the fish from getting poisoned from the nitrites. I have heard dosage from 1 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon per 10g of water. Once you get nitrites you are abought 2weeks away from being cycled.
I have 4 discus in 2 different 29g tanks. They chase each other occasionaly but never any actual damage. I originaly had 3 in the one 29g. Adding a 4th helped. If they are getting along reasonably well I would stay with 3. I would not try for 5 in a 29g. It might work for a while but eventualy you would have problems .
Don T.

[Tropical Haven]

I would not alter your PH at all if you do not own a RO unit. The only way to alter your PH without an RO unit would be to use chemicals and you do not want to do that because you will have fluctuations in the PH which will make them become stressed or even die. My discus stay in a PH of 8.6 and they are very happy.
If you have these discus in a non cycled tank then make sure you do 50% water changes on it twice a day if you have the time. Just make sure that the water is the same temp as the tank water and it was treated for chlorine and chloramines if your tap water has them.