Why no carbon for in the filter?

[ffighter14]

Hello
After raising tropical fish for many years and always using carbon in the filter why is carbon not advised?I was told as long as its changed monthly it benifits fish by removing harmful ammonia and nitrates.i realize that when giving medication it should be removed.Im very interested in knowing this as I am presently using it.In addition is any other media needed?I do 50% water changes every 5 days now.Any information will be appreciated.

Steve

[Don Trinko]

Carbon in the filter doesn't hurt but after several weeks it is saturated and doesn't do any good other than provide material for the nitrifieng bacteria. There are better materials for the bacteria.
Some medicines are removed by carbon. If you are medicating this is bad, after medicating it is good. Carbon will also remove the color from driftwood and other things. Don T.

[Graham]

Hi Steve, Plain Activated Carbon does not absorb any ammonia, nitrites or nitrates...life would be so simple if it did.

One of the concerns in the discus community, and I'm not sure if it's valid or not, with AC is that it absorbs trace elements out of the water. Since a lot of discus water can be very soft, there wouldn't be many ppm of them to start with. The concern is that this may lead the fish to be susceptible to HITH .......

Graham

[guille2007]

I think that carbon is useful removing organic polution caused by overfeeding if used for 2-3 days till water gets clear then remove it, that's the way I do,

[FishLover888]

Graham was right. I think I read somewhere AC was linked to the higher rate of HITH. I could be wrong. I'm not so sure if that link is confirmed or not.

Another thing to think about is that since we do so much water changes and your AC could be saturated very quickly, much quicker than tank set up for other fish. Your monthly change of AC will not help you that much anyway.

IMHO, AC in discus tank is a waste of money unless you are trying to remove after med.

[russell]

A/C stips the good things out as well. alsom when fully loaded it will leach the badies back into the water. great for removing medication over a couple of days. but if you do reg water changes why use carbon??

[Graham]

A/C stips the good things out as well. alsom when fully loaded it will leach the badies back into the water. great for removing medication over a couple of days. but if you do reg water changes why use carbon??


Hi Russel, AC dies not and can not leach anything back into the water. That is a very old myth and is not true. Once an element is absorbed by AC it is chemically bound to it and can not be released or leached back.

[Hans Kloss]

H Once an element is absorbed by AC it is chemically bound to it and can not be released or leached back.

It is false statement. Impurities cannot bind chemically to AC, they can be absorbed only. It is reversible process and with several conditions, for example pH diminishing, impurities can return back into the water.
Hans

[brewmaster15]

I think one of the down sides of using carbon in a tank isn't what it does...its the false sense of security in the belief of what it does...:) Those relying on activated carbon tend to do just that..... rely on the activated carbon to clean their water.... many look at it almost as a magical talisman that keeps their water clean, never needs changing, can be easily recharged by rinsing or boiling....and its none of those..


It is a useful purifier, but it has limited use.:) Its great at removing chemicals...but can only do so if the surface area is availible....once it gets gunked up...its efficiency goes down....and it ability to adsorb is spent variably depending on the type of carbon and the amount of adsorption it has been doing....problem is...you can't see when that happens..

hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

A good general primer on carbon..

http://www.algone.com/activated_carbon.php


Carbon is considered chemical filtration (http://www.algone.com/chemical_aquarium_filtration.php). The effectiveness of activated carbon is based on a three-step process. The first is adsorption. Static forces will attract particles adsorbing them onto the surface of the carbon. Bacteria (http://www.algone.com/nitrifiers.php) that settle on the carbon surface will further consume the waste. Another process is the diffusion of gases. Absorbed into the carbon the gases are detoxified (i.e. Ozone O3 into oxygen O2). The third process is called chemosorption, where particles are irreversibly bound to the carbon.
Activated carbon removes organic pollutants, some of which discolor the water with a yellowish tint, organic acids, proteins, hormones, antibiotic compounds, and organic compounds as well as a variety of chemicals, medications, metals, and minerals.


hth,
al

[russell]

I'm a golden oldie & Carbon can leech back. I use Rowafoss it keeps the water pristine, last ages, and have used it for many many years. along with water maintainance you should never get problems unless they are of your own making!!

[guille2007]

It is a useful purifier, but it has limited use.:) Its great at removing chemicals...but can only do so if the surface area is availible....once it gets gunked up...its efficiency goes down....and it ability to adsorb is spent variably depending on the type of carbon and the amount of adsorption it has been doing....problem is...you can't see when that happens..

hth,
al

Very true, I have seen stressed fish without any viewable cause get into normal behaviour after apply carbon to the tank for 2-3 days, I use it till I notice that water gets no clear as fast as it did for the first time. Remember that sometimes tap water arrives with weird things.that fish don't like...

[Graham]

It is false statement. Impurities cannot bind chemically to AC, they can be absorbed only. It is reversible process and with several conditions, for example pH diminishing, impurities can return back into the water.
Hans

Sorry Hans & Russel...This is how I ended up on this board in the first place was because of the old myth that AC once full releases stuff back...it does not, it can not. Once it's exhusted itself it just sits there acting as bio-media.

It takes extreme heat or acids to get AC to released what been bound to it

If the AC has been acting as a mechanical filter then of course it's capable of have those elements knocked loose....completely different thing

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=51170

[Apistomaster]

I belong to the same camp as Graham. There are many myths about using activated carbon with discus. It does not cause HITH/Lateral line disease.
I don't consider using carbon essential but it has it's uses.
How long it works as intended is going to depend on the quality of the carbon, interval of replacement and the amount of crude dissolved in the water.
I mainly use it if I want to remove stains from wood leachate or residual medications but if you regularly change your carbon it only helps to make the water cleaner. The idea that it removes essential trace minerals makes no sense to me. If you change water as you should this is a non-issue. If you don't make water changes carbon will not substitute for them.

I like to use Purigen in a modified PhosBan reactor on my Heckel Display tank because they do seem to positively respond to it. I do not have a redox meter but I suspect an increase in redox as a result of removing some of the dissolved organics is why the discus tend to perk up with it.

I have had Corydoras spawn regularly enough just after adding Purigen to their tank's filter which makes me suspect that an increase of the redox potential has helped stimulate them. Unlike carbon, Purigen is rechargeable but again, I do not feel it is essential.

[guille2007]

Purigen do a great job as cleaner aswell but after recharged it produces ph swings if you your tank water is acid treated, if you leave it without last acid step during recharging it raises ph so much and if you do the last treated acid step then it low ph below the value and even to dangerous value very close to ph 5.0, this has been fully tested by me, of course that's no problem if used on ordinary tap water in that case that apistomaster says it is very useful as cleaner.

[davidinsarasota]

Im new to the hobby, and therefore somewhat ignorant (less so thanks to brewmasters link), but I have a carbon canister that I rotate in to my Marineland Magnum 350 for a couple of days every couple of weeks. I like the idea of it trapping the toxins and heavy metals etc that my biowheel bacteria cultures and micron filter may miss.

I have heard that after they pump the stomachs of poisoning victims, they have them ingest activated carbon to adsorb the toxins.

[Graham]

Hi David... just think if it leached back what it absorbed several hours later..'' Dr states ''You're healthy , go home'' 3 hours later you fall over;)''

Graham

BTW Sarasota/Siesta Key is one of my very favourite spots in Fl

[davidinsarasota]

Thanks Graham, I work for the city (SRQ), we're very proud of it.

[robust discus]

Think of it as a porous element that have the capabilities to obsorb other trace elements. That is why it purified the water to a certain extent and the active carbon needs to be changed. I personally, don't used carbon, if your bacterias doing there good, your water should be good. They also increased hardness of your water. Remove medication.

[Apistomaster]

Quality carbon should have no effect on the hardness or pH of the water.

[jkb]

hi guys i use chemi-pure and i love it some kind of ion filter medium all i know is my tank allways looks clear and the fish do better with it than without it try it i belive u will see a difference

[Sandi]

Hi everone,

so should I be changing my carbon filter out. I have a bio-wheel 350. and a smaller power filter that I am going to change to a sponge. Or do I just add the foam on intake valve as a pre filter?

thanks Sandi

[Graham]

Hi Sandi, There is no need to use AC on a regular basis, save it for med removal or tannins in the water

G

[bs6749]

I just wanted to say that you will most likely need a lot of AC to remove a decent amount of tannins. I boiled my driftwood several times and it still leeched tannins. I ran AC in my HOB filter and it did little to reduce the browness of the water. I'm not saying that it DOESN'T remove tannins, which I know that it does, I'm saying it's probably not the best way to remove them. I'd do large PWC's to remove them.

After reading through the post, it's clear that many people believe the hype about AC causing HITH, removing trace elements, etc....I'm not one of those people.

[Raggio]

Can someone tell me what Rowafoss is and how it works and how to use it ?Thank you

Ron

[dishpanhands]

Can someone tell me what Rowafoss is and how it works and how to use it ?Thank you

Ron


would this be what you are talking about?

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/10671/product.web

If it is they say its for salt water reef tanks..

[Richy44]

FYI: GFO ( granular ferric oxide) is the same as Rowaphos but much less expensive. Here is a link if you like.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Phosphate-Remover-(GFO)/c8/index.html

HTH

Rick...