New to discus--growing out juvies in a planted tank?

[Christina]

I'd like to get some discus, but I have some obstacles I need to work around, and need some advice on which way to go.

I have a 72 gallon planted tank(low tech--no co2, low light, no ferts.) I don't have room for another large tank, and I won't give up my plants.

I have an angelfish, 5 cories, 2 ottos, and a pleco currently. The pleco can go, but I'd like to keep the angelfish.

I can't spend a huge amount of $, so buying 5-6 adults won't work for me.

Because of the $, I think I can either get 1-2 adults, or 5-6 juvies. I understand that the juvies wouldn't reach maximum size in my set-up, but could they be healthy & happy with frequent water changes and good food?

Can I use an autofeeder while I'm at work? I don't know how else I can feed juvies enough, since I leave at 8 and get back at 7 :(

My filter is an Eheim Pro II 2026, my tap water has a pH around 6, and I have a UV sterilizer, in case that makes a difference.

Thanks!

[Tropical Haven]

Yes you can use an autofeeder but you will need to QT the discus in their own tank before introducing them to any other fish.

[pcsb23]

I'm not a fan of ottos with discus either so personally I'd consider them as one to go too!

As Scott says, yes you can use an autofeeder, best set to fered little and often whilst you are out. I have grown out discus in a planted tank before, it can be done, but to get anything like decent size is quite hard work, ok it VERY hard work :) lots of w/c's, wipe downs etc.

An option is to go BB and use plants in pots, then when they are bigger go fully planted again...

[Dolphin Dip]

I'm not a fan of ottos with discus either so personally I'd consider them as one to go too!

As Scott says, yes you can use an autofeeder, best set to fered little and often whilst you are out. I have grown out discus in a planted tank before, it can be done, but to get anything like decent size is quite hard work, ok it VERY hard work :) lots of w/c's, wipe downs etc.

An option is to go BB and use plants in pots, then when they are bigger go fully planted again...

i tried doing the whole planted grow out thing. then i ended up switching to BB with "pots".
out of curiosity, why don't you like ottos with discus?

[Christina]

Right now I have a 10 gallon that I use for QT. Will that be large enough for 5 2" discus for a couple weeks, or should I get a larger tank?

I'm curious about the ottos too--they're great algae eaters, so I'd really miss them.

When people say "not a decent size", how small is that? All I know from reading this forum that they won't reach maximum size, but I'm curious about how much smaller they'll be.

[Elite Aquaria]

Yes it will be large enough for a few weeks...you will just need to do massive daily water changes (like 80%). I will be putting out another auction for some high quality but inexpensive fish soon so stay tuned...;)

[scolley]

out of curiosity, why don't you like ottos with discus?I assume Paul's hessitation is because many ottos will attach themselves to discus an eat their slimecoat, and harm the discus. This is fact, not fiction.

In my limited experience, not all will, but many will. And I have no idea how to tell the difference between ottos that will be well behaved, and the dangerous ones. But I suspect the tendenccy to be "bad" runs as a trait in different strains that either is, or is not, expressed.

[pcsb23]

out of curiosity, why don't you like ottos with discus?
As Steve says, they have a nasty habit of attaching to discus.

[Hans Kloss]

As Steve says, they have a nasty habit of attaching to discus.

My otos will never do that until discus don't produce excess of mucus. Having REALLY good water conditions and no skin parasites discus are IMO fully save until not in spawning mood.
Btw. some years ago have had one big discus male who killed all otos trying to bother him. In this manner all my otos were well educated and very polite.
Still have about 40 otos with discus but I've never seen any injuries caused by otos on their bodies . IMO much more problems may be with aggressive bristlenose plecos.
Hans

[C_of_Discus]

I say yes to Ottos they don't get big or aggressive. But never SAE or Flying Fox They get big and are aggressive.

I had a 6" one in a 125 gal and he would bother my alpha male 7" all the time until one day he leaped out of the tank. I found him 10 feet away! so they can fly!;)

[Seecher]

Greetings Christina,

It sounds like you have a very beautiful aquarium.

I have not been raising Otocinclus very long, but they are a great little fish. You could probably put another dozen in your tank without ill effects.

There should be no reason at all that you couldn't have 4/6 juvenile discus your tank. No need for draconian water changes unless your water parameters indicate that that's necessary. Check the nitrate levels and keep them below 20 parts per million, IMO. To keep those nitrate levels low I would suggest several small feedings rather than one or two large feedings, best food is whenever your fish consumes the quikest. If they are available you'll get fast growth with minimum waste by feeding live food such as California black worms.

Good luck

[aquagal]

Is the problem with growing out juvenilles in a planted tank that you need to do many water changes, which is good for the discus but bad for the plants (ferts get washed away)?

I was planning on 1 water change per week (30-40%) in my planted tank. Do I need more and why?

[phidelt85]

Hey, aquagal, I will tell you that some folks may tell you that you don't need alot of waterchanges while the majority will tell you that frequent waterchanges and regular feeding will ensure healthy fast-growing discus. I urge to do alot of reading on this forum prior to purchasing any discus and planning out how you will raise them. The majority of the people on this forum are here to help you prevent having to have a bad experience with these discus.

When I started with discus, I started with 3" juvies and 4.5-5" discus. I had a planted tank. I too wanted to grow out juvies in my planted tank. My larger discus did fine; however, the smaller ones, stopped eating and eventually died or had to be euthanized. The problem with juvies in a planted tank is that they usually aren't given the chance to eat all the food before it is lost in the plants or eaten by other fish. There is also more organic mass in a planted tank that "dirties" the water. Juvies require clean water and regular continuous feeding. Such feeding in a planted tank will lead to pollution of the water column due to decaying food.
The benefits of a barebottom tank is that it gives the fish the ability to find all the food as well as it is easier on you to clean out all the uneaten food and fish waste.

There are certain requirements in growing out juvenile discus, and there are certain requirements and a balance required in keeping a planted tank. Each one is difficult on its own; however, when you combine the two together, you better be prepared to spend a lot of time in maintainance and upkeep to keep both sides growing successfully. I would start out in a bb tank with regular waterchanges to keep the water clean, nitrates is only an indicator of water quality; it's not the only thing in the water that can stress your fish or harm them in the long run; you also have to take into account the amount of organic material, ie. uneaten food and fish waste, that is decomposing in the tank. I would at least start out with 1 water change every other day if you really can't do daily.

[Seecher]

Water changes should be made with needed. How do you know
they are needed? Testing your water will tell you.

If you've got a modern filter, UV sanitizer and, initially, high-
quality discus water and you are off to a great start. There is
no recognized toxic level for nitrate in a discus tank. It is
generally recommended to keep nitrate levels below 50 parts
per million for freshwater tropical fish.

If you have a well-balanced planted tank and nitrate levels
stabilized at about 15 parts per million there is no reason you
should ever have to do a water change other than to replace
water removed because of your weekly or every two weeks tank
maintenance.

Test your water, the jungle brand dip sticks work just great,
easy to use and you can do it frequently without it being a pain
in the neck. For young discus keep your nitrate levels under 20
parts per million, just as a suggestion, if it looks like they're not
stressed at 20 parts per million and try 30 parts per million. If you
really enjoy doing water changes three or four times a week then
have fun. :-)

As far as young discus not getting enough to eat, and in the
same paragraph say that there are copious amount of food rotting
on the bottom of the tank... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I've seen discus move tank ornaments to get at food. Anyway,
any amount of overfeeding, and the results of other waste
products will be detected in your frequent nitrate checks.

[Kindredspirit]

Hey, aquagal, I will tell you that some folks may tell you that you don't need alot of waterchanges while the majority will tell you that frequent waterchanges and regular feeding will ensure healthy fast-growing discus. I urge to do alot of reading on this forum prior to purchasing any discus and planning out how you will raise them. The majority of the people on this forum are here to help you prevent having to have a bad experience with these discus.

...and ultimately, ending up in the Disease and Sickness Section, asking for help ~

Well said, Jose! ^^



however, the smaller ones, stopped eating and eventually died or had to be euthanized. The problem with juvies in a planted tank is that they usually aren't given the chance to eat all the food before it is lost in the plants or eaten by other fish.


This is a fact. Jose is speaking from experience. As far as Ottos with Discus...I have heard this from day one ~

Not a good Idea ~ it is a horrible sight to see:(

[phidelt85]

Water changes should be made with needed. How do you know
they are needed? Testing your water will tell you.

If you've got a modern filter, UV sanitizer and, initially, high-
quality discus water and you are off to a great start. There is
no recognized toxic level for nitrate in a discus tank. It is
generally recommended to keep nitrate levels below 50 parts
per million for freshwater tropical fish.

If you have a well-balanced planted tank and nitrate levels
stabilized at about 15 parts per million there is no reason you
should ever have to do a water change other than to replace
water removed because of your weekly or every two weeks tank
maintenance.

Test your water, the jungle brand dip sticks work just great,
easy to use and you can do it frequently without it being a pain
in the neck. For young discus keep your nitrate levels under 20
parts per million, just as a suggestion, if it looks like they're not
stressed at 20 parts per million and try 30 parts per million. If you
really enjoy doing water changes three or four times a week then
have fun. :-)

As far as young discus not getting enough to eat, and in the
same paragraph say that there are copious amount of food rotting
on the bottom of the tank... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I've seen discus move tank ornaments to get at food. Anyway,
any amount of overfeeding, and the results of other waste
products will be detected in your frequent nitrate checks.

Seecher, it doesn't have to make sense to you. I saw it with my own eyes. At first they acted just fine actively looked for food with the rest of the discus; however, as the first month or two progressed they'd just swim at the food and turn it away. These were very healthy fish I had from a very good breeder. I saw how they ate and acted prior to going into my planted tank, and that's how they acted in my own tank initially. I kept my nitrates below 20, nitrites and ammonia 0, those numbers were in check. However, they still declined and eventually died. As stated before there are other compounds in the water released by fish waste, decaying food, dying plants that concentrate up in a glass box; the only way to remove these substances before they get to a dangerous level are by waterchanges IMO. There are probably other methods out there if you have the extra time and extra money. But to keep it simple and ensure that your fish are thriving, go with the waterchanges. I haven't lost one fish since I've gone BB and increased my WC schedule.

Eventually I will go back to a planted tank, but I will only introduce large adult discus that are a bit more forgiving on the water parameters. Even then, I will continue with more frequent water changes than once a week or two weeks.

Unless you have money to throw away (around here discus aren't cheap), I would go with a tried and trued method of raising juvenile discus. Get another tank that you can plant and setup and get that science down pat. Once your discus are subadults or adults throw them in the display tank.

Again I'm just telling you my experience and don't want anyone to unnecessarily follow mine and lose interest in this beautiful fish because of some bad advice.

[BSW]

Hi -
I'm new here and probably have no business butting in but, just wanted to say this -
I'm not new to planted aquariums, I have had several for years. I put 8 - 3.5 " inch Discus in a 60 gal planted. Wanting the Discus to have the best opportunity for growth and health. I've been doing a 50% water change on the tank every other day. The Discus are doing great !!! Growing like weeds, ALL the plants are dying !!! Regardless of my efforts to keep them up, the Discus come first. But I have decided to let the plants go until, the Discus are older and then I will re plant the tank. If your going to grow out juvies, I'd do it in a bare bottom tank, and then put the adults in the planted tank. If I were to start over, I would do it that way. And I will next time. Trying to grow up young fish, and keep healthy plants at the same time, has been impossible for me. And I'm a good plant grower, but I want to be a good Discus keeper too.
Seems the balance of those two, is difficult to achieve.
Adults and plants, seems a little easier.
This has just been my experience so far............
B

[phidelt85]

Hey, B, I hear ya. I didn't hede the advice of people who knew what was good for the discus in the beginning either. Call it my stubborn personality, but I figured I could do it. It caused me a lot of frustration in the beginning as you said to keep the plants looking good and healthy in addition to growing out the young discus. It also cost me some good quality juvies as well. I have since learned to take the advice of those that have been raising fish a lot longer than I have and be patient in reaching my ultimate goal which is a planted discus tank. I too have had great success in a planted tank but without discus.

BTW, you're not butting in just giving your personal experience and that's worth more than anything else.

[BSW]

Thanks -
My 60 was already planted, and nicely at that ! When I put the youngsters in it. But I'll plant it over in a few months, the fish are now about 5" so I'm getting close.
I think I'll be able to manage it when they are adults.
Seems the choice of plants really makes a difference too.
Your so very right though, listening to those with more experience, makes a lot of difference, especially with Discus !
I've always been an Angel keeper, still have several pairs. They are MUCH more forgiving than Discus. (And cheaper too !)
Plants had to take second fiddle this time.
B

[Kindredspirit]

Well, B and Jose ~ me thinks you guys have done good:D

[phidelt85]

Well, B and Jose ~ me thinks you guys have done good:D


You're the best, Marie!!