Water changes are killing me (or my plants)

[BSW]

How are you guy's keeping up ferts and co2 in these Discus tanks ?
I know the water changes are important for the Discus and do 50% every other day. Now the Discus are approaching Adults, and I'm hoping to slow it down to maybe two w/c a week. BUT, all of my plants are starting to go by the way side. Turning clear, not growing at all. Starting to see BBA, etc...
Water changes remove everything, and I can't seem to get it back in !! I'm using Seachems ferts, pressurised co2, fluval 405, and 2.0 wpg., 60 gal. The tank was fine before I made it a Discus tank. I'm scared to death of pouring that much Nitrogen into a Discus tank. But it would take alot to get any kind of levels back up. Everything is at 0 0 0 now, and it STAYS there. ! Except Co2 is about 15 ppm, running continuously !!
What do you do ?
And how offten do you all change Discus water in planted tanks ?
If once a week, how do you remove TOC's and DOC's, aren't they bad for the fish ?
Thanks -
B

[pcsb23]

At the moment I am not running a high tech planted discus tank, though I am running a planted discus tank!! It can be seen here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=60564

I only really put adult or near adult discus in my planted tanks now. I do 2 w/c's a week and usually they are around 33% to 50%. If needed a quick dose of ferts after each change and you are good to go. With a high tech tank you will need to dose daily ime.

[Blackwater Aquaria]

hi from blackwater aquaria I have 3 planted tanks tow complete and one in the making. All of them are planted in the back and sides there is also an area that is BB I use subtrate heat cableing with 3.5 inches of eco compleat these tanks are for Discus that are grown out so I feed them 1 to 3 times a day and do water changes 1x weekly.And fert the tanks every water change. I also use co2 controlled during the day and a timer to shut off the co2 for the night. Also the lighting is on timers also I do my water changes from the tap so my fish are use to it. I dont use any cl2 removers or any outher chemicals. I do the same thing every week and I have healthy and happy fish and plants. Discus have different needs than plants it is a balancing act but I do belive we need an combo. of planted and BB tanks. I hope this helps you out and try it out because it works.Good luck Mike

[Hans Kloss]

I know the water changes are important for the Discus and do 50% every other day.

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Hans

[Harriett]

Hans,
There is definitely a unique aspect to every planted tank in finding that elusive balance where everything thrives!
Here's what I do: I have a planted tank with CO2 and adult discus also; my belief/experience is that if a tank is GENEROUSLY PLANTED, then the plant system acts as a natural filter mechanism; the biologics in the tank stay more stable longer [I do 80-90% water changes ever other day in my BB tanks]. Here is my approach: I understock the tank's discus count, my lights are on timers, I follow a fertilization schedule where I am adding my stuff every other day, and I am doing 70% or better water changes and tank maintenance once a week in this tank. I fool around with tweaking ferts now and then, but in general it seems to roll along pretty well. I also use a python and tap water and haven't used any conditioning chemicals in this tank for maybe 5 years. I have not had any health issues with the fish in this tank for years---may the universe not hear that statement and smite me down as entertainment for verbalizing this!
I think we are doing pretty much the same thing, and indeed it does work pretty well!
Best regards
Harriett

[GrillMaster]

Hi ya B!

Harriet seems like she has it down!

The thing is, for a natural enviroment, it is a load of slow growing plants such as anubias, swords, an moss. This enviroment doesn't need C02 or alot of light. If you want to have a nice planted tank with discus in it, then C02 might be the way to go. If ya wanna have a discus tank with plants in it than low tech would be an option worth lookin into. :)

tc
Mark

[BSW]

Thanks guy's -
I have just recently reordered on the plants and am going low tech. All Anubis, a few crypts, a little Wisteria in there already which is the only thing that is thriving. I have a Nova Extreme 48" T-5 overhead, with 2 - 10,000K'S 54 W ea. and 2 - 6,700K's 54 W ea. I never even turn on the 10,000's anymore, and have even removed one of the 6,700 bulbs. It just made to much algae. It's a shame to have 216 W capabilities, and not use it, but the low tech is a lot less work ! I do have a C02 system but, am no longer running it. The Discus like the lower light, and it is basically the same set up I have in another 30 gal. which I do nothing special to and the tank looks wonderful ! The Anubis is so hardy, they don't seem to mind frequent water changes. So I'll see how it goes from there I guess.
Just that the high C02 and ferts make me so nervous with Discus in the tank. I have lots of Angelfish too, and they live through it just great, but I'm afraid I'll kill the Discus, doing high tech. I'm just a big chicken I guess.
B

[Blackwater Aquaria]

If your tanks are well planted and you fish are grown out there is no need to change water as much I have three planted tanks I only do 1 50% wc a week and fert at same time. I have happy Discus And plants I dont use any other additives. Water is the key also get you Discus acclimated to you tap water. Good luck Mike

[Seecher]

It would seem before you did an over-the-top water change
or any water change at all you should want to know what the water
conditions were before you ''actually" changed the water. No one is
mentioning what their water parameters are, what is a nitrite
reading? What is nitrate reading prior to your water change? That,
to me, would indicate that a water change is necessary, if
everything is in their right parameters there is a possibility that you
maybe doing more harm than good. It's just something that I think
should be considered.

[GrillMaster]

The ideal low maintainance tank will actually tell you when to do water changes just by looking at it.

If you have a properly balanced tank, ie... The proper amount of fish an the proper amount of plants, you can go quite awhile before you actually do a water change. That might sound crazy, but in fact it is a reality.

Lets say you do a 50% wc once a week. The fish are doing just fine, but the plants are starting to look bad. You in fact might be taking out the ferts the plants need by removing the waste which in turn is actually fertilizing the plants.

If the plants look fine, but the fish are looking like they are getting a little stressed then the N03 and P04 levels are probably creeping up. The waste is not all being utilized by the plants. Add more plants, or increase the water changes.

Once a low tech tank gets established and balanced. It is a very easy tank to maintain. No tests required. :)

tc
Mark

[judy]

I pruned back from a very heavily-planted tank to a moderately planted one, with some plants that use a lot of nutrients: val, water sprite, swords, and some that don't; anubias, java moss and fern, crypts, sagitteria (in pots). Its a 78 gallon, with three pop bottle CO2 diffusers (one recharged weekly) two T5s and three T8s for a total 220-some watts (I have to keep the lights-on period down to nine hours, or the algae starts up). I add Flourish Excel daily, iron a couple times a week (I noticed when I dosed iron daily,thinking the swords would benefit from it, I started getting this weird very dark red algae), Discus Trace Elements a couple times a week (interestingly, that product seems to contain a lot of the same micronutrients plants are said to like and need).
I do a light vacuum of the sand substrate every few days (amounts to a WC of maybe six gallons). I don't do major WCS (which I call 20%) more than once a month. I do have a habit of water testing every few days, though, just to be sure everything's staying stable, especially nitrates and phosphates. I do have a LOT of filtration in HOB filters: a Tetratec 300 rated for a seventy-gallon, two Aquaclears each of which is rated for a fifty, and a big sponge filter in one corner.
There are eight discus, still quite small-- four inches, two angels, a couple dozen cardinals, a school of rummy-nosed tetras, two clown loaches, five SAEs.
Everyone's very happy-- I'll post a pic when the lights go on today...
I thinl as Bastalker says, it seems to be a matter of balance...