Discus Plants

[Singin4Cnu]

Hey Guys,

I have a very unique setup, I have a 29 gallon, using to raise four discus for a 65 I have. It is bare bottom with two pieces of driftwood and a couple of potted plants. I have four amazon swords and another kind of sword with spotted leaves, neither are doing well. I presume this is the warm water and having them in pots. Can you guys give me some advice on what to get that can take 84 degree water, being in about two inch wide pots, low lighting and doesnt make a mess or require much maintenance.

Thanks, I need advice quick

[phidelt85]

Your amazon swords should be doing just fine at that temperature. I've got mine at 86*F and it's growing quite well. What are you using as a substrate inside the pot. I use peat moss covered with sand and it works good for me. I also have a Radican sword in my tank that has grown to the top of my 125gal tank. You can also do anubias barteri, nana, coffeafolia. I haven't had luck with jave fern,. You may want ot go with slightly larger pots for those swords although I believe a sword may be the wrong plant for a 29gal tank.; they just grow too big.

[Singin4Cnu]

I just have gravel in the pots. They arent doing badly they just have brown edged leaves and are growing super slow. Another plant I have has rounder leaves with speckles and all its new leaves have a bunch of holes, which I know are not from fish. My smaller plants leaves rot away randomly and I had needle based plants but what would happen is they would grow super fast with no needles at the base then the bottom of the stem ould rot and the plants would float. They never seemed to grow roots. What am I doing wrong????

[Polar_Bear]

Too little light, no fertilizer, bad substrate.

Get a more powerful light fixture
Fertilize using Jobes or Miracle-Gro plant sticks once every 3 months. That's why you have young leaves dying and holes in them.
Find a better substrate

Your sword sounds like an Ozelot, which grow fine in discus temps. I have a few of them and all have bloomed in a BB tank in pots. Almost all Echinodorus (sword plants) do well in discus temps. They need very little in the way of light (which tells me yours is woefully low) and need little care. Like Jose said though, they get WAY too big for a 29 gallon tank.

[Singin4Cnu]

Would two of these do the trick?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4479&Nty=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=All&N=2004&Ntt=flora%20sun&Np=1


And is it ok to put Miracle Grow in with the baby discus??? If so where and what kind do I get some?

[tpl*co]

Too little light, no fertilizer, bad substrate.

Get a more powerful light fixture
Fertilize using Jobes or Miracle-Gro plant sticks once every 3 months. That's why you have young leaves dying and holes in them.
Find a better substrate

Your sword sounds like an Ozelot, which grow fine in discus temps. I have a few of them and all have bloomed in a BB tank in pots. Almost all Echinodorus (sword plants) do well in discus temps. They need very little in the way of light (which tells me yours is woefully low) and need little care. Like Jose said though, they get WAY too big for a 29 gallon tank.


I agree with Larry, not enough fertilizer for swords and up the light. Put in a fertilizer tab in the pot with them and get a better substrate would help. Another plant that I've found does well in pots in a discus tank are Cryptocornes (crypts). I agree that a lot of java ferns I've tried didn't do well, but I have a very narrow leafed one that is doing great in discus temps.

Tina

[phidelt85]

The fertilizer sticks need to be buried in the pot under the plant. You don't just want to drop it in the tank. Don't know if you knew that, I just wanted to make sure. If properly buried I don't know why there would be a problem.

[Singin4Cnu]

What about for lighting.. The link I posted on my last post, will two of those do the trick?? And how often do I have to change the fertilizer sticks? Can I get them from Wal mart? Also if I do the sticks do I need to get the fancy substrate being that the plants are in pots?

[phidelt85]

What about for lighting.. The link I posted on my last post, will two of those do the trick?? And how often do I have to change the fertilizer sticks? Can I get them from Wal mart? Also if I do the sticks do I need to get the fancy substrate being that the plants are in pots?

What size bulbs do you plan on getting? The fertilizer sticks, just add a new one every 3-4 months; yes, you can get them at Walmart. I bought the Jobes plant sticks. As for the substrate, you can buy Peat moss from Home Depot or Lowes in the bulk 50# blocks. It's naturally acidic and cheap; just add some sand on top to keep the peat moss down. Make sure it is just 100% Peat moss. What you want to do in a sink is add some peat to the pot, add your plant. Put some more peat over the root. Wet it down to get it to settle some, then top it off with sand. You will want to slowly submerge the pot so that water doesn't rush into the pot and push the peat and sand out and make a mess out of your tank.

[Singin4Cnu]

They are two normal size 24 inch ones, the same round size as the ones that came with the hood. I do have two light fixtures so two of the bulbs can be used. I really do not have money to buy a new fixture so I need a bulb that will work with regular flourescent fixtures. Also, for substrate, if I want to buy the better stuff, like the gravel stuff, which would be best and how would I use that with the fertilizer sticks?

[phidelt85]

Those bulbs should do just fine. What are they? T5s T8s? You may try finding some at Home Depot. You can normally find the 6500K daylights there. You can do the same thing with the "fancy" gravel. Just slide a fert stick into the substrate and you're good to go.

[Singin4Cnu]

They are T-8, I have one of those bulbs from home depot, i have one from a blue box and one from an orange. The orange is the one you are talking about. What would be better, two of the ones I had the link to, two from home depot, or two flora glos? also with the pots, would it be better to do the peat moss with fert stick and some gravel over of do the fancy substrate with fertstick? also, if I do the fert sticks do i still to do fertilizer in liquid form or is the fert stick all they need? What would be the best setup with all these options for the plants and the discus, I guess this wont effect the discus too much though?

[phidelt85]

Honestly, I would just start out withe the bulbs from HD in the right color temp. You're just wanting to do low light plants so keep it simple. Get yourself the peat moss and add a fert stick every 3-5 months. Personally, I would do sand over the peat instead of the gravel unless you are doing the smaller gravel. I have a pot with the larger pebbles and it made a mess when I first placed the pot into the tank. It's alright now, however.

[Wahter]

You might want to just hold off on the live plants part - Keep It Simple. That way you don't need to mess with any substrate - gravel, sand, peat, etc... nor any pots. Just keep a piece of driftwood (don't really even need that for the discus) and do a lot of feeding and a lot of water changes.

Besides, from your post here:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=61064


Along with the discus I have
~5 Cardinal Tetras
~5 Corys
~2 Clown Loaches
~1 Delta Tail Betta

You've got a decent number of fish + the plants + the driftwood in a small 29 gallon tank. When is your 65 gallon tank getting set up?

Or if you absolutely want live plants, you can always get some anubias or java fern and tie them onto the driftwood; no need for pots.

Just some ideas.



Walter

[Singin4Cnu]

Im positive I want to do the potted plants. I am thinking about taking out the clown loaches and prolly the betta too. Good idea? And I was wondering if getting a hagen glo Ho unit would make that big of a difference without upgrading my Co2. I was looking at bulbs for the flourescents and I wondered if a Flora Glo paired with a power glo would do the trick or if two flora glows would do it? Or are the ones from home depot going to be just as effective?

[Wahter]

My point is that if you're going to grow your discus out - just keep them in a minimally decorated tank - use the money instead on setting up your 65 gallon tank. Do you already have that tank? Lights for that tank? filter? stand? etc...

Just trying to save you some money. However, if you are deadset on growing plants in pots in the 29 gallon tank with driftwood and 4 discus, here are some suggestions.

Two inch wide pots are NOT going to handle any Amazon sword plants - they will become rootbound and overgrow/ outgrow the pots. Go get some larger pots - something around 5" in diameter at the top. If you want to minimize the fuss about layering peat, sand, etc... go buy a bag of Seachem Flourite and put that in the pots with the plants. Note: do NOT bury the crown of the sword plants. A full grown Amazon sword could easily fill out half of a 29 gallon tank. Take a look at this photo of a large Echinodorus "Veronica" AKA Red Diamond:
http://ncaquaticplants.org/gallery/jared1206/images/img_0655.jpg

Depending on what type of resources you have access to, you can grow other plants in smaller sized pots. Lots of plants can grow in the warmer water and I've made a posting on some of the plants that have worked for me.

A 29 gallon tank is small enough that you can use the DIY yeast for CO2. Or again, if you've got money to spend, go ahead and get a Pressurized CO2 system. Get a good regulator, needle valve, bubble counter, diffussor, and rent out the CO2 cylinder. A solenoid is optional. You can either piece these together or some of the mailorder shops offer bundles.

What type of light strip do you have? Get one or make one that lets you use a 55 or 65watt CF (compact fluorescent) light. Although I had a bad experience with this company one time and haven't bought anything from them again, http://www.ahsupply.com offers some good kits to change things over from standard normal output fluorescent lights to CF at reasonable prices.

There you go!


Walter

[Singin4Cnu]

I understand what you are saying and yes I have all the supplies for the new tank except a light. My point is, when I move the discus to the 65, I am gonna make the 29 a reg. planted. So I figure if I want to do the potted plants, Ill just get the lights and stuff now. Which is why I have a Hagen Co2 kit that is yeast based on it already. As for lights, I have two flourescent light fixtures and am hoping to just get bulbs for those as I dont have a whole lot of money for all of the compact lighting stuff. What are the best flourescent bulbs I can use and how effective will they be? Also, if I do end up with the substrate, will I still have to do fertilizer in the water?



Or maybe you know where I can get upgraded lighting for cheap, I looked at that site and it still seemed expensive... Plus I dont want to have to build it after spending that much on it....

[Singin4Cnu]

So, I am looking at coralife compact flourescent fixtures. My tank is 30 inches across. SHould I get the 36 inch unit, it has a lot more wattage and wont hang over that much. It would for sure be sufficciant lighting. Or would the 24'' inch one be better, they dont hae a 30 '' one....

Here are the ones I am looking at

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+11418&pcatid=11418

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9871&pcatid=9871

Not sure about this one

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13734&pcatid=13734

I dont think I can get a 20'' fixture on my tank and dont feel like itll be as efficient as one that is longer

I first need to know if I should do a 24 or 36'' one. Again the 36 inch ones seem like the extra wattage would def help. Then which is best? ...And why.


I was kinda thinkin a 36 inch 92 watt of the corallife since it has brackets that will make it easy to mount on a 30 inch place and seems to be the best.?

[Wahter]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+11418&pcatid=11418

Now why would you want to get a lunar light? Don't need it, get it if you've got money to burn...



http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+9871&pcatid=9871

This one would be fine.


Not sure about this one

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+13734&pcatid=13734

That would be okay if you got the 6700ºK model.


I dont think I can get a 20'' fixture on my tank and dont feel like itll be as efficient as one that is longer

I first need to know if I should do a 24 or 36'' one. Again the 36 inch ones seem like the extra wattage would def help. Then which is best? ...And why.

In my opinon, forget the 36", you're losing some light with the light hanging off the ends of the tank and it just looks terrible (not to mention the light hitting the floor when you have the room lights off). More light is not necessarily better - it's not a "supersize me" thing. Get too much lighting and you're going to have algae problems - which means, more money to spend on possibly a UV sterilizer, more work scrubbing the glass, your plants could be covered with green stringy algae, etc...


I was kinda thinkin a 36 inch 92 watt of the corallife since it has brackets that will make it easy to mount on a 30 inch place and seems to be the best.?

Just what type of plants are you expecting to grow? Unless you're keen on growing Glossostigma, or Ludwigia inclinata, or some other light hungry plant, you're going to just create an algae culture with that much light (96 watts versus 55-65 watts). If you're planning to grow sword plants, many of the larger species will out grow that size of tank if you have too many. Cryptocoryne wendtii will do fine, but most of them don't need that much light. You can also grow Barclaya, some Vallisneria, Ludwigia repens, Ludwigia arcuata, Echinodorus tenellus, etc... all with just the 55 watts of light.

Take a look at Tropica's website for some ideas on plants - keep in mind they also list some non-aquarium plants there too (those are good for terrariums):

http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

Here's a decent 30" single 65 watt light strip with a good 6700ºK light in it too - perfect for you:

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209374/product.web

If you're set on getting the 29 set up for plants after you move the discus to the 65 gallon, just fill the bottom with something like Flourite or Onyx or Eco-complete.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11122/product.web
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198651/product.web
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/11124/product.web



Walter

[Singin4Cnu]

This may be a dumb question but the 30 inch light has the same 21 inch bulb the 24 inch fixture does and the same wattage. Wouldnt the corallife light be a better brand any way and will the extra inches of fixture help at all? Also, the 20 inch light that puts out 92 watts, is that too much light and how efficcient would that be for me? Which of these lights, would be the BEST, all of these are in price range even a little more. Which is the best as well as can hold the best bulb for growing plants?

PS I have the Hagen yeast based Co2 system also.

Would the eco complete be the best out of those substrates?

[Wahter]

Go back and think about which plants you want - if you are content with Echinodorus sword plants, Anubias, Cryptocorynes, even some stem plants like Rotala indicia / rotundifolia and Ludwigia repens, having 96 watts of lighting isn't needed.

I've already said all I can about your questions. Let's see what others can tell you. You can also check the Aquatic Plant Central forum for some ideas/ advice:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/

In the meantime, here's a photo of a 29 gallon tank that I had with only a 30" light strip, a 55 watt 6700ºk compact fluorescent light, and regular Fluorite, plus a pressurized CO2. Your mileage may vary, but this setup has worked for me.



Walter

[Singin4Cnu]

Thank you for your help. Is it safe to say that 92 watts will create large algae problems in my setup?