12/22/07 On my way out!!

[phidelt85]

Well, it looks like the last four have gone by way of the first two. They are dark and laid out in the back corner of the tank. I was sitting there thinkin' what the hell could be going on. The only thing I have changed from before these fish arrived is that I've had to use my hot water out of my hot water heater to heat the water. This is so freakin' frustrating. I had previously ruled out the water as well because whenever I do a waterchange they run up to the fill pipe and play in the change water falling into the tank. Well, they'll probably be down by the end of the day.

[alxjss]

OMG Jose. What the hell? Did u check ur parms? Try a w/c and add salt. Are u doing something? oh man......

[phidelt85]

Yeah, I did a w/c and added salt but I don't think it's helping. parameters are all still good

[KJoFan]

Wow I'm sorry to hear that Jose. That must be so frustrating and sad to watch! You know, you mention having to use the hot water heater and I recall reading somewhere once that using hot water out of your hot water heater (unless it's brand new) can be bad because bacteria and all kinds of gunk can build up in there. I know that probably doesn't shed much light on the situation but maybe you are onto the cause of the problems. I don't know what state they're in now but if there were any way to get some water to the right temp not from you hot water heater and do a change, I'd almost try that, just to see if it made any change and you could maybe save those four.

[alxjss]

Oh Jose, I hope everything works out for u. Keep trying, something has to work!!!

[jeep]

Sorry Jose, this most definately sounds like a water related issue possibly a combination with the change of seasons and the hot water heater :(

Try aging some cold water asap and heat it with an aquarium heater. raise the temp to 89-90, add 1-3 TBS salt per 10g and cross your fingers...

[renae]

Jose I'm sorry, keep trying and dont be too harsh on yourself..I hope this will turn around for you..Best of luck!

[phidelt85]

Thanks, everyone. I have dumped the whole storage tank and started with straight cold tap water. It's at 64*, so it's gonna take a while to get this tank up to temp and pH stabilized. I have to figure out a system to have one tank aging and the other ready to go.

[AADiscus]

Jose, give us a call!

[Seastep]

I've been thinking about your problems and I wonder something.....

If you were pulling water from your hot water heater, is there a possibility it's got copper in it? Depending on the age of your home, it possible to have copper pipes that would leach a bit into the water. For Humans it's no big deal but for Fish it's obviously a major problem.

Copper isn't something we traditionally test for so you'd obviously never know it's there....

I don't know, I'm just spitballin' here! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help! (Aside from sending good MOJO your way!)

-- Scott

[tonymaccs]

Hi Jose, sorry to see the situation develop.
If your water heater is working as it is supposed to temp wise (70degC or above) you shouldn't have any problems with bacteria as it would kill them off.
The copper is a possibility and can be easily eliminated as the cause with a test.
Hope is doesn't get worse for you.
Tony

[midazolam]

Thanks, everyone. I have dumped the whole storage tank and started with straight cold tap water. It's at 64*, so it's gonna take a while to get this tank up to temp and pH stabilized. I have to figure out a system to have one tank aging and the other ready to go.

Boil a few pots of water and dump it in the storage barrel. Can help get the temp up sooner than later

[phidelt85]

Jose, give us a call!

Hey, Angela. I just saw this post. Haven't been on much today since my family was up for Jacob's birthday. I'll call later on Sunday after I get up; back on night shift. :(

I've been thinking about your problems and I wonder something.....

If you were pulling water from your hot water heater, is there a possibility it's got copper in it? Depending on the age of your home, it possible to have copper pipes that would leach a bit into the water. For Humans it's no big deal but for Fish it's obviously a major problem.

Copper isn't something we traditionally test for so you'd obviously never know it's there....

I don't know, I'm just spitballin' here! Let me know if there's anything I can do to help! (Aside from sending good MOJO your way!)

-- Scott


Hi Jose, sorry to see the situation develop.
If your water heater is working as it is supposed to temp wise (70degC or above) you shouldn't have any problems with bacteria as it would kill them off.
The copper is a possibility and can be easily eliminated as the cause with a test.
Hope is doesn't get worse for you.
Tony

Hey Scott and Tony. Didn't think about it but I do have a copper test kit. I'll give it a check in the AM when I get home. As for the plumbing in my house it's all plastic tubing except for the 1' pigtails off the hot water heater.


Boil a few pots of water and dump it in the storage barrel. Can help get the temp up sooner than later

Thanks for the suggestion. Should have thought of that.

I really don't know what to make of it. Later in the afternoon they perked up for the most part. Ate the last of the CBWs my brother in law brought me and some FBWs. I didn't want to feed too much since I wasn't able to do a water change. I had a bucket of water aging but the temp didn't get up fast enough before I had to go to work. Will change in the morning. Thanks everyone for the suggestions; I do appreciate it and will keep ya'll posted.

[Ardan]

Good luck Jose.
Keep working on the water:) You will get it right.
You are lucky to have Andrew and Angela close by, they are great resources:):)

Ardan

[brewmaster15]

Jose,
I'm sorry to hear this.:( but I am more sure than ever that its water related....


The only thing I have changed from before these fish arrived is that I've had to use my hot water out of my hot water heater to heat the water. This is so freakin' frustrating. I had previously ruled out the water as well because whenever I do a waterchange they run up to the fill pipe and play in the change water falling into the tank. Well, they'll probably be down by the end of the day. I'm not sure what you do to age your water .....Why can't you age ,aerate and heat your well water? Adding hot water to Cold well water may be the problem... that may bring the temp up.. but it doesn't aerate and age it. Please give us more details on exactly what you do here and why. Thanks.
-al

[brewmaster15]

Jose,
Reading back to your posts. ... Is there a reason you can't mix hot and cold water together for your aging barrels? I run off a shop sink here so its easy..I get the impression that you only have a cold water spigot availible in your garage? If thats so... it maybe worth the effort to plumb a hot water lead so you can mix the two easily.

-al

[GrillMaster]

Jose....Is there any way you could put an extension on a python an fill the age tank from a bathroom or kitchen faucet?

Sorry to hear about the fish bud!! :( I sure hope they turn around for you!

tc
Mark

[Kindredspirit]

Call A&A, Jose ~ they will fix it;) Hang in there!

[Ardan]

Thinking about this.

I would use a dechlor that removes heavy metals. (no worries about copper, iron ....) The water heater should then NOT be an issue and you can use hot water too.
And I agree with Al, age it after adding the hot water.
I would do small wc's with aged water (30%). Big wc's may affect the stability too much.

How long do you age it? And is the airstone really moving the water fast? (turbulence is needed) IF not , you may want to try a pump in there (Carol use to do it and age the water pretty fast)

hth
Ardan

[phidelt85]

Sorry for all the confusion, guys. I do age my water for 24hrs; I have too or my pH will swing from low 6's to mid-upper 7's. I do have a hot water tap in the garage and have been filling my storage tank with hot water as well. I filled this last tote with straight water to eliminate the hot water tank as a source of my problems.

The storage tote is into the mid 70's in temp now, and the pH is up to 7.6, so just waiting on the temp to come up now.

[phidelt85]

Thinking about this.

I would use a dechlor that removes heavy metals. (no worries about copper, iron ....) The water heater should then NOT be an issue and you can use hot water too.
And I agree with Al, age it after adding the hot water.
I would do small wc's with aged water (30%). Big wc's may affect the stability too much.

How long do you age it? And is the airstone really moving the water fast? (turbulence is needed) IF not , you may want to try a pump in there (Carol use to do it and age the water pretty fast)

hth
Ardan

My water is aged for 24hrs(well, longer this time), and there is a circulation pump as well as a 5" airstone cranking the air of my Jehmco air pump.


Call A&A, Jose ~ they will fix it;) Hang in there!

I did call no answer.:(

[alxjss]

How r they today Jose? Any better? I hope so . Please, update on their condition.

[phidelt85]

Yeah, they're doin a lot better. I aged water in a 6gal bucket last night. Did a WC when I got home this morning and another one when I woke up this afternoon. I've got water aging in a 29 breeder above their tank so I( I mean my wife :D) can get a larger one in tonight if the temp gets up high enough; this water is currently at 82*( I'll let it get to 87 or higher, before I give her the greenlight to do the water change.

They ate several feedings of FBWs and a feeding of Omega One marine pellets today. Their coloration is good and activity is high.

[Seastep]

How many water changes are you doing a day??:confused:

[alxjss]

Yeah, they're doin a lot better. I aged water in a 6gal bucket last night. Did a WC when I got home this morning and another one when I woke up this afternoon. I've got water aging in a 29 breeder above their tank so I( I mean my wife :D) can get a larger one in tonight if the temp gets up high enough; this water is currently at 82*( I'll let it get to 87 or higher, before I give her the greenlight to do the water change.

They ate several feedings of FBWs and a feeding of Omega One marine pellets today. Their coloration is good and activity is high.

That is real good news Jose. Man,u poor guy. Well, whatever it takes to get these guys big and healthy:) Good luck!!!

[phidelt85]

How many water changes are you doing a day??:confused:

I've been trying to do two 50% a day, but I've done larger ones whenever, I have found them near dead. I will begin to do smaller water changes (i.e. 20% at a time to total 100%) until I figure out what the cause of my troubles are. I haven't been able to get into a normal routine because of the issues I've been having. We will see what happens with a regimen of smaller WCs.

[Discus-Hans]

Jose,

when you open your tap to get the hot water, let the first gallons go and trow them away, after the first gallons have "flushed" the pipes it can't be a real problem anymore.

Just a thought,

Hans

[phidelt85]

Thanks, Hans, I'll do that

[Ardan]

Glad they are doing better:):)

Ardan

[phidelt85]

Thanx, Ardan! I'm happy too :)

[Kindredspirit]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_105.gif



But ~ Jose, I was wondering....bear with me now as you may have stated this somewhere....but is this not the same method/water you use to do wc on your other discus? Why would these babies start trippin?

[phidelt85]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_105.gif



But ~ Jose, I was wondering....bear with me now as you may have stated this somewhere....but is this not the same method/water you use to do wc on your other discus? Why would these babies start trippin?

That's right! Beats the hell out of me why all the drama. I don't understand it either especially after talking to some other folks who do the same thing.

[AADiscus]

Glad everything is working out for ya now Jose.

Tell Jenny and Jacob Merry Christmas for us!


ps.......you guys ought to come up for New Years!

[phidelt85]

Glad everything is working out for ya now Jose.

Tell Jenny and Jacob Merry Christmas for us!


ps.......you guys ought to come up for New Years!

Thanks, Angela!! Jenny says Thank you and she hopes you all have a Merry Christmas as well.

I'd love to come up, but guess who's working? :( Yup, me.

[Kindredspirit]

ps.......you guys ought to come up for New Years!


Okay:D

[AADiscus]

Marie you are invited to! ;)