Stray Voltage/Easy maintainence discussion!

[bastalker]

I was going to reply in Ryans thread but didn't want to hijack it so I started a new thread. Plus everyone has the bases covered for him already. (Sorry about your troubles Ryan!!)

I have always run Aquaclears on my 55G BB an now have one on my &%G BB. Sometime last year I had my fish just dart for no apparent reason. Standing far away from the tank in the hall. No sudden movements, no noises, shadows or anything, they would just dart. I witnessed this on several occasions.

I was told it might be stray voltage. I haven't ever seen it since though, so I stopped worrying about it. That doesn't mean that it wasn't still happening...

How about this idea...I have been thinking about it for awhile now. I have a 75G grow out tank that I am going to put 8 fish in. My thought is to get an XP3 an just stuff it with foam and sponges, an plumb a hydor 300W external heater in line. This takes absolutely everything out of the tank. With the XP3 being so large I dont think sponges would even be needed in the tank. On 150G it would obviously be 2 XP3's with 2 in line hydors just like I have on my 125G.

There wouldn't be anything in the tank except for an inlet an outlet, plus you could adjust your current your current anyway you like just by pointing the spray bar up, down, hitting off the back wall, turning down the flow whatever. Would be easier to clean, no having to switch off heaters etc...You wouldn't need to worry about restarting these filters either. The only thing you would have to do is unplug the filter before the wc, then just plug it back in after your done.

Having everything external might not alleviate stray voltage but I have never had this issue with the XP3's. Like i said earlier, it would be a lot easier to clean the tank and less things for the fish to run into!!

BTW...It doesn't have to be an XP3!! Any huge media hog will do. ;) :D

How bout some discussion...

tc
Mark

[poconogal]

Mark, that's exactly what I have now. One XP3 with foam, bio stars, noodles and floss and I have one Hydor 300W heater on my 75. The only things in my tank, besides my Discus, are the filter intake and output, and an airline tube with airstone. I have my output pointed up towards the water's surface for agitation, but use an air pump too because mine has battery back up. If power goes out, the air pump comes on. For many years I also used a grounding probe, just in case but I haven't bothered with it for the last 2. With hardly anything in the tank, it is very easy to clean. Since I have everything plugged into a power strip, I don't even have to unplug anything before a WC, I just switch the power strip off and then back on again when done.

[korbi_doc]

;) Mark, I've been using AC filters on all my tanks, fortunately with no problems like that lately but
I did have a voltage problem when I first started with discus; it was measurable with voltmeter, but was very low....never did determine the cause, tho most ppl thought it had to be a heater problem....when I added a SS rod connected to the ground of the electrical outlet, it stopped & I never saw the problem again...I still have these probes that I made up myself, but haven't had a use for them, thank goodness....I didnt think that the AC filters had any electrical component inside to reach the tank, do they? I was under the impression they worked on vibration, tho I've never taken one apart at the motor site....there is some evidence for use of these probes in the literature, but "stray voltage" is still controversial.....wish someone could come up with the answers....JME,

Dottie ;);)

[fredox]

If you are suspecting a stray voltage problem remember to test each piece of equipment separately. You may find that only on piece is causing a problem and needs to be replaced or it could be more than one. My old man is an electrician and I can't remember how many times I've seen him tackle a problem by testing one piece at a time. Also remember electricity can be conducted by water so it might be conducted along the filter pipes into the tank.

[bastalker]

Connie, I think I am going to go that route with mine next time. I have already set it up with the AC500 though with 2 sponge filters. I really wish I would have done it to begin with but have already spent the money on the HOB, heaters and sponges. :(

I just like less things in the tank myself! I have seen the fish bounce off the lip of the aquaclear a few times an have seen the mark it left.IMO that would be the ultimate 75G BB set up although I might be missing some key eliminate that I am not aware of.

Dottie, I am thinking that the heaters would be more of the cause for stray voltage than the filters myself. I have had several heaters in the past that have condensation inside where the heating element is. Maybe this would cause some sort of stray voltage. I believe the aquaclears are sealed pretty tight.

I have actually stuck my hand in the tank an gotten zapped because of a cracked heater, but the fish didn't act phased one bit. :confused: So is stray voltage actually that big of a deal? This was never in a Discus tank though. Maybe Discus are more sensitive to electric current than other fish...A grounding probe would be a good investment just for peace of mind I guess.

Byron, I dont believe I am having a stray voltage problem at the moment, but it wouldn't hurt to test each piece of equipment to make sure.

tc
Mark

[pcsb23]

I am not sure how domestic electricit is supplied in the USA, but in the UK we have a 3 wire system, live neutrakl and earth (or ground). The regs here require that all pipework in the house is equi-potentially bonded, in cae of potential differences on the ground. The reason I bring this up is that by adding a grounding rod to the tank, it could possibly introduce a problem and not fix it. If you suspect a prob then get a test meter and check it out methodically.

I think that discus may be more sensitive, they come from mineral poor waters - so the water is less likely to conduct electricity - and therefore may have more sensitive receptors on the lateral line, it's just speculation though.

[Mick B]

Hi All,

Just wondering, as I don't switch-off to do work (unless on the unit, pump etc, I'm servicing)?

I have a 30 mAmp RCD (Residual Current Device) on the socket, which is specifically designed to isolate the power, if more than 30mAmps leakage is detected.

These can be purchaced down to 10mAmps, so if worried about current-leakage, fit an RCD, at least you would be safe and know, any leakage is below 10mAmps??

HTH, Cheers, Mick B

PS, I'm not an Electrician, so check this is OK in your area, prior to implementing etc, BE-SAFE:angel:

[Mick B]

As I don't seem to be able to Edit, my message:(

Interesting Link, re RCD's

http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue15/2005_15_summer_wiring_matters_complete_no_adverts. pdf

[korbi_doc]

I am not sure how domestic electricit is supplied in the USA, but in the UK we have a 3 wire system, live neutrakl and earth (or ground). The regs here require that all pipework in the house is equi-potentially bonded, in cae of potential differences on the ground. The reason I bring this up is that by adding a grounding rod to the tank, it could possibly introduce a problem and not fix it. If you suspect a prob then get a test meter and check it out methodically.

I think that discus may be more sensitive, they come from mineral poor waters - so the water is less likely to conduct electricity - and therefore may have more sensitive receptors on the lateral line, it's just speculation though.

;) That was exactly what I did.....there was a definite positive reading on voltmeters & I had sev'l guys check it with different meters....don't remember the numbers, obviously they were low......after putting in the ground rod, the fish acted better.... we put the other end into the ground socket on the receptacle & it worked out ok....JMO..

Dottie :grin:

[bastalker]

Paul, Mick, Dottie IMHO...Stray voltage boils down to something just aint right with yer equipment. How else would you get stray voltage? Whether it be 220V or 110V. I would check the heaters first then the filters. If yer equipment is sound, you have other issues with the fish.

So you have checked the equipment and everything is up ta par. You see the fish dart for no apparrent reason...What would ya look for next?

tc
Mark

[Mick B]

Hi Mark,

I suppose what I'm saying, is here in the UK, we can fit a 10mAmp trip, so if there are any stray currents (?) they would be less than 10mAmps but I don't know if that would effect the fish?

Equally, electric motors (pumps/p-heads) and cables, do produce EMF electro magnetic fields around them (out into the water), but if that were problematic, we would all see problems?

I would also be interested to know, what effect a stray voltage would have on your TDS meter? would it show an inaccurate reading?
Could this be an indicator?

Where do you find a good electrician, when you need one!?;):bandana:

Cheers, Mick B