Hi Everyone

[Gilcano]

This is my first post in this Website, before I just to chat with people in Oscarfish.com but decided to change my 150g to have Discus.
I'm researching because I want to be successful with Discus. I kept this tank for over two years and never had any fish die of a disease. I think the tank is well established with the following fishes:
1 – 6” Gold Severum
2 – 4” Silver Dollars
1 – 5” Red Parrot
1 – 5” Texas Cichlid
1 – 8” Pleco
1 – 4” Catfish

I do 50% water changes twice a month but I’m worry about the NITRATE readings (40-80ppm). Someone told me that this is very bad for Discus so I went to a LFS and bought ‘CHEMIPURE-ELITE’ to try to reduce this reading. I have one Fluval 404 and an Emperor 400 Filter. Never tried sponge filters before. I would appreciate your comments.

Thanks

Gilbert

[Seecher]

Sounds like you have everything under control.
There is no upper limit set for nitrates for discus.
Nitrates, of themselves, are not poisonous... not
like ammonia and nitrite. Discus are not particularly
sensitive to nitrates. Keep testing your water and
determine water changes based on nitrite levels, I
use 40 parts per million as my upper limit and 20
parts per million as an indication to clean my tank,
that's not for the discus, that's more for my
Otocinclus that appeared to be more nitrate
sensitive.

You might want fast-growing plants like floating
Water Sprite(Ceratopteris thalictroides)and water
lettuce(Pistia Stratiotes), they really absorb nitrates
very well and grow well in warm discus water.

Good luck with your new project :)

[andy81]

well i can tell you a few things i have 125 and impretty new to discus, the 2x month 50 % water change is not gonna work. they are very sensitive to water parameters. if they are adult discus you may be able to get by with 50% 2x a week. or if you go my route and get juveniles so you can buy more than just 2, you may want to thing about 50% daily. when i started out with this tank i was in simliar situation as you. i had 3 juvinles and i got by for a while with 50% 1x a week. needles to say all 3 of those have past. now i have 11 juvies( some of which are attaining nice size) and for the las month i have been religiously doing the water changes. sure i have missed a day here or there,but in the long run i am being rewarded for it. especially with juvies you want to feed at least 3-5 x a day. and things like beefheart can really muck up the water if left uneaten. again i am new to this just like you, and want to share what has work for me. right now my schedule is as follows. 50 % water change everyday. good gravel vac on whole tank on sat or sun, whenever i have more time. as well as i gravel vac half the tank on tues and the other half on thurs only due to time constraints.(gotta spend some time with the family) and my iuys seem to be getting on pretty well. i feed a variety including beef heart, FBW, brine shrimp, tetra color bits, and im experimenting with a few other things. sorry for such a long post but just wanted to share what i have learned so far. and the info on this site is priceless. thanks

[White Worm]

Play it safe and try to keep nitrates around 10-20. No sense taking chances. Keep the water clean, feed good variety foods and as you see, the reward of nice healthy discus is the outcome. Pretty simple. Start with safety and then experiment with what works for you, your setup and your discus as you gain experience. :D

[poconogal]

For Discus most try to keep nitrates below 20 ppm. They can become sensitive to higher levels than that so better safe than sorry. Also, the best way to lower your nitrates, especially if you have Discus is to do more WCs. I see in your post that you do 50% WCs 2 twice a month. That definitely is not going to cut it with Discus. Many here on SD do that daily, some change a larger percentage of water, too. One thing with Discus is that they require extremely clean water, so they do need much more frequent WCs. A minimum would be a large WC once a week, depending on fish load and the size of the Discus you have. Juvies require much heavier feeding for good growth, and they also require large, daily WCs both for good growth and to keep their water clean. Also, if you decided to get juvies, bare bottom would be the best way to go until they are larger. No plants, either, with juvies. I know there are those that have raised juvies in a planted tank, but even they will tell you that it was extremely hard to get proper growth and keep the water as clean as necessary, in view of the heavy feeding that juvies need, as well as keep the tank balanced for good plant growth.

Also, I don't think you mentioned whether you would be putting Discus in with your existing fish, but I don't think that many of your fish are good tankmates for Discus. Severums can be very territorial and Discus, while they squabble amongst themselves, are not aggressive fish at all with other species and can be scared and bullied very easily (My adults were cowering in the corner because of a little, dwarf gourami who was having great fun chasing them. Off he went to the LFS, though!) Silver Dollars can be very skittish which will make the Discus nervous, there can be issues with Plecos attaching to the sides of a Discus to eat their slime.

[Gilcano]

Well, thanks everybody for your comments. First, I will not keep the fishes I have with the Discus, they are going to a LFS (donation). I appreciate the comments but I think some are extreme, no gravel, no plants, 50% WC daily or twice a day. What about filtration, nobody talks about filtration here (Eheim Filters), I rather get and RO filter and even a Diatom Filter than do 50% WC daily. When you would have time for you and your family, common don’t tell me that is the price you have to pay to have Discus. Should be a better way to keep this fish and not become their slave with that kind of work, I think WC twice a week will be reasonable. More comments will be appreciate

Thanks

Gilbert

[two utes]

I'm researching because I want to be successful with Discus.
Gilbert

It all comes down to what you mean by 'successful' I suppose.

I find that l can comfortable do daily water changes during or before sitting down to have dinner with the family on my Bare Bottom Juvinille tank. And also 3 water changes per week on my larger planted tank.
I think it all depends on what you would like to get out of it.
Like you l am a novice, but one thing for sure, you are among some very clever and succesful discus people here. ;)

[Gilcano]

Yes, when I said “successful” I meant that, I don’t want to be a breeder, at least for now I just want to keep some beautiful Discus in a nice environment. That’s all. Why “Bare Bottom tank”? Discus does not like gravel? I see many pictures of planted tanks with beautiful Discus in it? What about UV?

:confused:Gilbert

[andy81]

for filtration i have 2 canister filters and a hang on back filter, but there are some things filters can not remove. thats why so many water changes. and the family remark was a joke. if you have a python water changes are really nothing. but, are you planning on getting juveniles or adults? that is really what is gonna dictate what u need to do. i raise juvies in a lightly planted tank with gravel, and its hard as hell sometimes. if i was gonna do it over again, i would get 10 juvies put them in a BB 55 gal until they were about 5 in or so and then move them into a large planted tank. but again if you want to shell out the money for adults, it will be less work for you. it really depends on what you are looking to get from your fish.

[Gilcano]

Thanks for your comments Andy81. I’m planning to get 12 juveniles, and I have a 55g tank sitting on one room with no use, and I have the heater and an air pump for it I just need to get the sponge filters. Hold, I need to cycle this tank, right?

Gilbert :)

[tonymaccs]

Let me see- 12 juveniles, 55g, planted, gravel substrate, partial water changes twice per week.
Prediction- you will be posting in the disease section looking for advice for sick fish or why they aren't growing fast in the near future.

Also, RO filtration is not relevant to in-tank filtration or the need for water changes, neither will diatom filtration replace water changes to a great extent.

Connie's advice generally reflects the norm, not the extreme.

Tony

[poconogal]

Yes, when I said “successful” I meant that, I don’t want to be a breeder, at least for now I just want to keep some beautiful Discus in a nice environment. That’s all. Why “Bare Bottom tank”? Discus does not like gravel? I see many pictures of planted tanks with beautiful Discus in it? What about UV?

:confused:Gilbert
Gravel traps detritis, no matter how well or often is it vacuumed and with the frequent feedings for Discus, that gravel bed can cause lots of problems. It is also much quicker and easier to keep the tank clean without gravel, especially if you have juvies. Many grow out their juvies and then add substrate etc.

[Gilcano]

Ok, Ok, Hold your horses’ people! When said I’ll put 12 juvis’ in a 55g tank never said that this specific tank will have gravel and plants; the 150g tank is the one that have gravel and the plants.

The 55g tank will have the juvis (Bare Bottom and sponge filters). Now I’m a little confused here; how do you cycle this tank? Just add water?

Gilbert

[ed8t]

I'm a fan of fishless cycling using clear Household Ammonia. You start off with a clean slate, no pathogens or bugs from other fish to possibly spread their nastys to your new fish.

Here's a reference from the library:

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/water_chemistry/general/pre_cycling.shtml

[GrillMaster]

Hi ya Gilbert! Welcome to SD!

I started with 10 juvies in a BB 55G. They out grew the tank very fast and I had to cull 4 of them. If you want to use a 55G to grow out juvies I wouldn't do more than 6. Maybe 8 to cull a couple of em after a few months. They need room to grow.

tc
Mark

[Gilcano]

Thanks Mark, but aproximately how many months from juvies to adults?
Thanks

[GrillMaster]

Thanks Mark, but aproximately how many months from juvies to adults?
Thanks

Around a year or so. That was case for mine anyway.

tc
Mark

[deanne]

Hi there,
Another newbie here looking to learn. I too am trying to decide how discus fit into my life and to what extremes to go in terms of my free time to keep them. I am changing some of my practices because I've had trouble with disease, but I will never be willing to do daily wc so I conclude that I need to keep fewer fish. I had 11 in my 55 gallon tank at one time, and only a few of them have grown in 6 months; mostly they have either remained the same size or gotten sick. I'm settled on doing weekly 75% wc and have 7, mostly juvies- an emaciated one will most likely die soon and I will then stay at 6. I've abandoned the live plants and taken out most of the gravel, down to a thin layer, and plan to convert to sand.

Now here's my question regarding cycling- what do people think about that live bacteria innoculant that you buy from the LFS- the one that is refridgerated and there are different products for salt and fresh water, called Bio-Spira? I'm convinced that any product that claims to instantly cycle your tank and isn't refridgerated or says that it's good for both salt and fresh water, like StressZyme and Cycle is a big hoax, but I believe that the refridgerated products are genuine. Bio-Spira is about $20 for a single packet, and you use the whole thing. This might help our friend here get his 55 gallon going faster, no? I have used it when adding fish to a partially cycled tank and I believe it has helped as I have monitored Ammonia and Nitrite and I've never seen a spike.

d

[Seecher]

Greetings Dianne,

An opinion, if you don't mind.

I believe to properly raise discus a person has to know about
what the environment that they lived in. It's the single most
important thing. WATER... try and learn everything you can
about it. Purchase some type of water testing kit and learn
how to interpret the readings and adjust your water accordingly.

The book below answers a lot of technical questions about water
in an easy-to-read format

ECOLOGY of the PLANTED AQUARIUM
A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise
for the Home Aquarist

by Diana Walstad

(I use Cycle, on a regular basis and find it an excellent product)

[GrillMaster]

Sorry Gilcano for stealin yer thread!!

Hi ya Deanne...Trying to raise discus requires dedication an time! If this cant fit into your life style then you are doomed to fail I am afraid. Especially with juvies. Its just part of the hobby.

Now on the other hand if you decide to dedicate some time to this hobby you can be very successful!

So it's up to you now. How much do you like Discus? ;)

tc
Mark

[GrillMaster]

Good luck Gilcano!! Please dont hesitate to ask any questions during yer quest!

tc
Mark

[poconogal]

Hi there,
Now here's my question regarding cycling- what do people think about that live bacteria innoculant that you buy from the LFS- the one that is refridgerated and there are different products for salt and fresh water, called Bio-Spira? I'm convinced that any product that claims to instantly cycle your tank and isn't refridgerated or says that it's good for both salt and fresh water, like StressZyme and Cycle is a big hoax, but I believe that the refridgerated products are genuine. Bio-Spira is about $20 for a single packet, and you use the whole thing. This might help our friend here get his 55 gallon going faster, no? I have used it when adding fish to a partially cycled tank and I believe it has helped as I have monitored Ammonia and Nitrite and I've never seen a spike.

d
There've been threads on other forums regarding Bio Spira. People actually kept track and posted daily results. All of the results were very good, with no one reporting any ammonia or nitrite spikes, so long as the product was used exactly as directed.