ANYONE USE DENITRATOR FILTER UNITS?

[RockHound]

Coil & other type denitrator units are fairly common in salt water reef type aquariums filter systems.

Does anyone here use any type of "denitrator" unit in their fresh water filter system?

The reason I ask is, if you are using a wet-dry type trickle filter.
In effect you have a nitrate "producing" filter.
As that is what they do, I.E., convert ammonia to nitrite, then ultimately into less toxic nitrate.

Why not take your filtration system a step further, and include another inexpensive filter that removes nitrates?

[RockHound]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/anammoxboifiltercopy-1.jpg
Well, I am going to build one.
Or rather, a combination of 3 type filters.
(just to see if it will function)

Certainly not your regular type filter system.
Combination of a noxic degrading to anoxic slow flow bio-filter.
Combined with a high flow trickle bio-filter tower.
Combined with a shower type bio-filter combination degassing tower.

Overall combined flow rate is projected @ 600 GPH.

It is NOT as complex as it appears.
PVC pipe & valves, food grade plastic drums & assorted bio-housing-media.

If you are curious about the principles behind this puppy?

Denitrification is a dissimilatory microbial redox process where nitrogen oxides (NO3−, NO2−) are reduced stepwise to gaseous end products (NO, N2O, N2) which are then gassed off in an agitated or aerated air/water interface.

In the process of denitrification, nitrate, the form of nitrogen that results from the completion of the nitrification process, is converted to nitrogen gas, utilizing facultative heterotrophic bacteria. The process of denitrification occurs under anoxic conditions as follows:

NO3 + Denitrifying Bacteria + Organic Carbon Nitrogen Gas + Water + Alkalinity

There are two steps required to achieve denitrification, i.e. nitrate removal.

Step 1- The nitrification process is reversed, and nitrate (NO3) is converted back to nitrite (NO2).

Step 2- Nitrite is converted to nitric oxide (NO), then nitrous oxide (N2O) and finally to nitrogen gas (N2).

The completion of the denitrification process can be summarized as follows:

NO3 > NO2 > NO > N2O > N2

There are two main requirements for successful denitrification.

1. Anoxic environment
Since facultative heterotrophs prefer to respire using DO, the denitrifiers will continue to respire aerobically as long as DO is available.
It is only when the DO is depleted that denitrifiers begin using nitrate for respiration, which begins the denitrification reaction.

2. Sufficient amount of organic carbon
Without organic carbon as the food supply, facultative heterotrophs cannot continue to grow,multiply and thrive. Organic carbon can be supplied to the denitrification phase of biological treatment using influent water (which contains cBOD), and/or supplemented with either an ethanol, or a sugar solution.

One final point: Biological denitrification converts nitrate to nitrogen gas. Which is typically gassed off in an aerated chamber that follows the denitrification process.

ANAMMOX = http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/bst/034/0174/0340174.pdf

Also google "CANON reactor" and/or "coil denitrifier".
~~~~~~~~~

Also see:

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[RockHound]

You all may wonder where the idea of a “denitrator“ filter unit came from.
The post below led me to try it out.
(along with a lot of research on the subject)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The basic coil denitrator is a long section of small diameter tubing
with a slow flow of oxygenated water containing ammonia, nitrites and
nitrates, i.e., normal aquarium water. Aerobic bacteria naturally
colonize the insides of the tubing and transform ammonia to nitrite
and nitrite to nitrate. This process uses up the dissolved oxygen in
the front section of the coil and produces anaerobic conditions in the
rest of the length. Anaerobic forms of bacteria grow in this area
and reduce the nitrates and nitrite to gaseous nitrogen.

The trick in the setup is to pick the correct tubing size and length
and proper water flow such that enough bacteria of the right type can
develop and have enough time to complete the denitrification cycle.
Safety and efficiency concerns direct the actual design of such a
system.

The coil is simple to make from readily available materials. A visit
to a hardware store or nursery that carries drip irrigation supplies
will provide you with the basics. Fifteen to twenty-five feet of the
thin-walled black, 1/4" PVC tubing used for drip irrigation is perfect
for this application. Simple connectors are available that allow you
to attach the tubing to a source of water. This will generally
produce too much water flow but an inexpensive 1-4 gallon per hour
(GPH) valve is also available that allows for fine adjustments of the
water flow.

For optimum operation, the water should be mechanically but NOT
biologically filtered before entering the coil. This prevents
water-born particles from clogging the small diameter features of the
coil while supplying the maximum amount of ammonia and nitrite to the
aerobic bacteria. Unfortunately, this is difficult to accomplish in
practice since any mechanical filter media will also become a
substrate for nitrifying bacteria. A good compromise is to use the
water return of a canister or trickle filter as the source of water.
This water is very clean yet has been proven to provide enough "food"
for the bacteria.

For safe operation, the outflow from the coil should be passed through
a biological filter of some kind. At some point during the startup
period of the denitrator, enough bacteria will be present to reduce
nitrate to nitrite but not enough to take it all the way to gaseous
nitrogen. It is also possible that after being established, something
may happen that would disrupt the denitrification cycle and nitrites
could again be generated. You do not want to return this nitrite
laden water directly to the aquarium.

APPLICATION

Two of our large 90 gallon freshwater aquariums are heavily planted
and well stocked with fish. Even with the lush plant growth, we had
to change significant amounts of water to maintain low levels of
nitrates. Prior to implementing the coil denitrators, we were
changing 50% of the water every two weeks. This was time consuming
and quite expensive due to the water conditioning and plant fertilizer
products that we use.

Both of these aquariums have trickle filters which allowed a very
simple coil denitrator system. A hole was punched in the vinyl water
return line to the aquarium with an inexpensive drip irrigation hole
punch designed for this purpose. The water return line passes over
the trickle filter sump at the point the hole was punched so if any
leakage occurs it will harmlessly drip into the filter. A 1/4" right
angle connector pushed into the hole connects one end of the coil to
the return line. The back pressure from the 4 foot head is sufficient
to provide more than enough flow through the coil.

The small 1-4 GPH valve is put at the outlet end of the coil. The
valve clogs easily so it is best to put it on the outlet side of the
coil for easy periodic cleaning. A short piece of 1/4" tube is
attached to the other side of the valve and fits into a small hole
drilled in the filter drip tray cover. The water from the coil thus
passes back through the trickle filter providing insurance against
toxic nitrites. The coil outlet is a loose fit in the cover so it can
be easily removed for cleaning and monitoring water flow and nitrate
concentration.

The coil itself rests on the PVC plumbing coming from the filter pump.
It is not fastened down so it can be easily moved if access to the
plumbing is required.

Once set up, the water flow through the coil can be measured by timing
how long it takes to fill a container of known size. For example, if
it takes 6 minutes to fill a 500 ml container, the water flow is 5
liters per hour. Water flow should be checked regularly since
bacteria and their waste products will build up and restrict the coil
and valve. The valve can easily be removed and cleared by blowing
through it but the coil should be left undisturbed. We have found
that the flow through the coil itself is usually not impeded enough to
affect the operation and any attempts to clear the tube will probably
result in a disruption of the denitrification cycle.

The system takes 4-6 weeks for the aerobic and anaerobic bacteria to
completely populate the coil. Prior to this point you may find some
nitrite being formed if you have a sensitive test kit.

Once the coil denitrator is established, the nitrate reduction will
depend on the flow through the coil and what percentage of the coil
contains anaerobic bacteria.

RESULTS

In our set up, we use 15 feet of 3/16" ID tubing and have a water flow
of 3 liters per hour through the coil. The most recent nitrate test
with a Lamotte low range nitrate test kit showed 1.0 ppm
nitrogen-nitrate (4.4 ppm nitrate) on the input and 0.75 ppm (3.3 ppm)
on the output. With a reduction of 1 ppm (1 mg/l) and a flow of 3
l/h, the denitrator is removing 3 mg of nitrate per hour. This is
keeping up with nitrate production since the overall nitrate levels in
the aquariums are staying at around 4-6 ppm. There is no nitrite
coming from the coil as verified by a Lamotte nitrite test kit.

Note that the effects of the denitrator can only be seen if the
nitrate concentration of the inlet water is very low since the
resolution of test kits available to the hobbyist varies with the
nitrate levels. For example, it is simple to tell the difference
between 2 and 3 ppm but almost impossible to tell the difference
between 19 and 20 ppm.

The effectiveness of the coil denitrator has allowed us to reduce the
amount of water we change by two thirds with the attendant reduction
in the cost of water conditioners and stress to the fish. The ten
dollar investment is paying large dividends in both time and money
saved and in overall water quality improvements.


George L. Booth Founding Member, The Colorado Aquarium, Inc
booth-at-hplvec.lvld.hp.com __ Aquatic Gardener's Association
Software Development Engineer / \ /\ Colorado Aquarium Society
Manufacturing Test Division /\/ \/ \ Rainbowfish Study Group
Hewlett-Packard Company / \/\ / \/\ Modern Aquascaping
Loveland, Colorado _________/ \ \/ \ \_____________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rather than utilize a small coil denitrator system, as applied above.

I decided to go with a much larger system, using at first 1 inch PVC pipe (instead of a coil), filled with ¾ inch bio-balls, then 3 inch PVC pipe filled with nylon pot scrubbers, to increase the bio-media surface area & to allow for a larger flow rate, hoping to foster Nitrospira Anommox activity in this branch of the system.

Fearing I may not have enough organic carbon food source in the flow water when it reaches the anoxic filter area (lengths of 3 inch PVC - filled with nylon pot scrubbers), if need be (as I suspect), I cobbled together a 3000ml bag IV type drip feed, that I can accurately & automatically regulate that solution feed flow rateswith, as need be. I plan to use a mix of sucrose & ethanol (inexpensive vodka) as the carbon source.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/IVdripfeed.jpg

The reason there is a UV sterilizer in the anoxic flow line, is to kill any pathogens, should any develop in that flow.

The reason the anoxic flow is directed into the shower tower (aerated by a squirrel cage fan) is to degas the effluent.
As well aerate it with oxygen, prior to returning it, to the tank.

The shower tower should also have some similar benefits of a “bacci shower”.
Bacci shower references:
http://www.keirinponds.com/bakkishower/index.php

http://www.yumekoi.com/articles/bkks_2003.pdf

http://www.koicymru.co.uk/products3.htm

http://www.momotaro-koi.org/english/bakuteria/

Bio-media in the shower tower will be an open cell type, light weight externally porous feather-rock that I have an unlimited FREE supply of.
Which is as good, if not better than the extremely expensive Bacci shower media.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/bio-media1.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/bio-media5.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/bio-media2.jpg

Bio-media in the 1 inch PVC will be bio-balls & in the 3 inch PVC pipe anoxic portion will be nylon monofilament type pot scrubbers.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/Nylonpotscrubberbio-ball-1.jpg


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/biomediasurfaceareacopy.jpg
Reference Credit T. A. Hovanec

Hovanec is the author of:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/64/1/258?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&titleabstract=bacteria+sonication&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=90&resourcetype=HWCIT
Which led me to this article:
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/AEM.00156-07v1

Interesting stuff…..LOL

[RockHound]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/oxictoanoxicfilter.jpg
Finally got time to build the oxic to anoxic filter portion.
50 ft of 1 inch PVC pipe, filled with bio-balls.
16 ft of 3 inch PVC filled with monofiliment pot scrubbers.
(giving that portion about 1200 ft of bio-surface area)

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/drums.jpg
Next is to configure these drums.
1 set as a fast flow shower tower.
1 set as a medium flow trickle tower.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/squirrelcagefansmall.jpg
This Papst (19 watt draw) sql cage fan is what will push counter/flow air current in the shower tower.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/handygadgets.jpg
Found this 4 valve manifold @ a garden supply store $12.

A work in progress.......:D

[discuskeeper08]

wow. complicated. what size tank are putting this filter on?

[RockHound]

wow. complicated. what size tank are putting this filter on?

Initially, it is going to cycle through a 100G tall tank.
Once up & running, there will probably be around a 125 gallons in the whole system.
If it functions well, it will then go on a 220G tank.

Actually, it is not that complicated. It just appears that way, because it is a hybrid system. .
It is all over-flow & gravity feed, through the bio-filters, then to the sump.
From there, water is pumped back to the tank.
Once running, it will be almost fully automated.

Schematic doesn’t show 2 other drums.
1 for ageing-conditioning water for fresh water changes.
The other as a measuring/holding drum, for water drained out of the system.

Object being, turn a valve & flow 20 gallons of old water out.
Turn another valve & flow in 20 gallons of fresh conditioned water.
Which, (If all goes well), should make water changes, very simple/easy.

No doubt, everyone eyeballing this thread is thinking, IT’S OVER-KILL.
(so, humor me)

Wet/dry trickle towers, WORK.
Fast flow degassing/aerating towers work.

Only question is, to see if I can get the anoxic section to convert nitrAte, to nitrogen gas.
If that works? The degassing tower should blow it out, at the same time aerating the water.
The system should (hopefully) remove nitrAtes, to the degree, fewer water changes will be needed.
Only way to tell, is to get it running & see what happens, over several months.

I have decided to test it fishless, for awhile.
Once, I think it’s fairly well cycled.
I can dose it with larger & larger amounts of ammonia.
To see if it will work at all, and if so, how well.

If the denitator portion doesn’t function well.
I will simply remove it & continue running the other 2.
Which, I KNOW function very well.

I have run a small aerated drum bio-filter alone on a 100 gallon tank, with a extremely high stocking load.
And, it functioned perfectly.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/6drumfull.jpg
3 inch perforated/corrugated flexible drain field pipe .
Filled with monofilament type nylon pot scrubbers, as bio-media.
Shower effect via a counter/flow nozzle, in the lid.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/nozzle.jpg

Just trying to one/up that & see if I can get this hybrid system to also rid itself of considerable nitAtes.
That, an effective wet/dry trickle system produces.

Edit to add links below that are a good read, on bio-filters.

http://biofilters.com/webfilt.htm

http://biofilters.com/TrickFilter2.htm

http://biofilters.com/websize.htm

[RockHound]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/filterparts.jpg
With a few modifications;
Most parts are pretty much togather (unglued).
(r/o - hma units, sump, storage/conditioning drum, etc not pictured)

Footprint (so far) is less than 36 inchs wide & 24 inch depth.

Now, I have to move the freezer in the garage.
As, the space it now occupies, is where this filter has to go.

Having done drum type DIY bio-filters before.
I learned, NEVER glue the joints.
Until you have it set up, exactly where you want it.
(to insure everything fits)
Plus, use UNIONS, so (if need be), you can take it apart.
Without having to cut pipes. :angry:

It's going to be interesting, getting this puppy running.

[salth20]

Fairly complicated there Rock, but no doubt efficient when you get it running and fed. Mine is a simple coil unit I built. A 25 foot coil of yellow air tubing from Harbor Freight externally wrapped around a
24" tall piece of 3" PVC. 3" FxS coupling on the bottom. A 3" plug is inserted upside down in the adapter after filling the unit. Some teflon tape, and a 3/4" open end clamped in a vise enable me to tighten the plug far enough in so the bottom is flat. 3"x1.5 reducer glued on top. 1.5x 1/2" reducer (threaded) with a 1/2 MxS adapter threaded in the bottom with a 22" standpipe through the main chamber and a 1/2x1/4 barb on top. I filled the unit with pall rings, but have used DIY "bio bale" before from shaving PVC pipe on a lathe. I make an external 1/2" standpipe with a 1/2x1/4 barb on each end, and glue it on the outside of the unit, over the coil. Water enters the top of the external standpipe, down, into the coil, and up through it, into the top of the unit, down over the media, and up through the internal standpipe. The unit needs to be filled with water before installing it to eliminate the air bubble at the top.
When I had this unit running on my marine tank, it kept nitrate at a very steady 5 ppm for the 3 years it was set up. Drip rate is controlled by a gate valve off the main return line at about 120 drops per minute, and the water is returned to the top of the trickle column. I have set others up with a return line to the overflow in the tank via a simple pvc tube up and over the back of the tank.
At this point, I have just finished cycling my tank (fishless) and am reading 25 ppm of nitrate. I had the unit running wide open to seed it for the time it took to cycle the tank. 2 days ago, I cut the flow back to my comfort level of about 120 drops per minute. I'll be watching the nitrate level, to see if the unit will be as effective in fresh as it was in salt water. My only caveat, some of the anaerobic bacteria strains can be non-friendly. One of them is a strain of Staphylococci confirmed by lovely nurse wife at doctors office from a sample of the slime when I broke the salt tank down. While I never got sick from keeping fish, or playing in about a million gallons of water over the years, YMMV.
One last thing... quoting you "Object being, turn a valve & flow 20 gallons of old water out.
Turn another valve & flow in 20 gallons of fresh conditioned water.
Which, (If all goes well), should make water changes, very simple/easy."
Even easier, if you can, is another bulkhead in your wet dry sump that is plumbed to waste. Pour in the 20 gallons, and the level in the sump will rise... overflowing to waste. Same principle applies to flowthrough systems off of RO units. Constant supply in, constant supply out to waste.

[salth20]

Maybe a pic would help.

[RockHound]

I am going to place a 30W UV at the end of that anoxic line, to kill any nasty bacteria that it may emit.

Still researching design factors, for kinks.

It is not really complex. It just appears that way.

1 part is a wet/dry trickle/shower tower.
Which, are proven effective @ converting ammonia to nitrite, then nitrate.

Another part is a degassing, combination aerating tower.
Which, I added a tiny squirrel cage to, to improve it’s performance.
Those principles have been proven effective.

The kink is the denitrification portion.
There is not much reliable data on small scale denitrators.

The theory is sound.
But, in practice, they seen to be finicky.

There is a huge amount of data out there on denitrification.
Just google ‘denitrifying bacteria”, and page after page of links/data appear.
Sadly, most of the info is not oriented towards aquaculture water filtration.

There is a lot of good info on deep sand beds, the Berlin method & others systems that employ anoxic denitrification of 1 sort or another.
But, most are oriented towards salt water marine tanks, rather than fresh water systems.

LOL, our atmosphere would not be about 78% N2, if denitrification wasn’t taking place on a massive global scale.

Kink is getting it to work on an inexpensive manageable mini-scale, that is reasonably effective.
I would be satisfied with anything over 40% efficiency.
More would be better, but I am not shooting at the moon.

I have visited several water & sewage treatment plants, picking the brains of those with hands on experience.
Several even offered bio-film samples from the anoxic portions of there systems, to seed this with.
And, I plan to take them up on it.

Basic premise is the same as a “coil” denitrator.

Except, I configured it, “long flow”, through 50 ft of 1 inch PVC pipe, completely filled with bio-balls, from 1 end to the other, instead of a small bore coil tube, which will then flow through 16 ft of 3 inch PVC, filled with another type bio-media. The object being to increase the water volume flow rate through that portion of the system. I can/will control the flow rate via a ball valve @ the inlet head of the system.

The other kink was, if there is not enough organic carbon in the inflow, as food/fuel for the anoxic bacteria reaction process. Since data confirms, it is a critical factor, that if feeding is required, it must be done in a very accurate, constant manner. How to do that without using an expensive dosing pump.

After some thought on that, I MacGyver’ed together a drip feed system out of medical IV supplies, that is proven safe/effective in administering/dosing accurately measured small amounts of liquids, long term. That looks complex, but in reality is very simple. The trick was just getting the parts, without spending an arm/leg. There, acquaintances in the medical profession & eBay came through, like a champ. LOL, So much so, I have an extra 49 (3000ml) IV bags & drip line sets.

No doubt, this is going to be an exercise in patience, tinkering/tuning this thing.

[RockHound]

Maybe a pic would help.


LOL, was typing reply to you.
While you were adding more posts.
Cyber lag........:D

Cool unit you built.
Glad to see someone has 1 running.
Also good idea on R/O water change configuration.

All is a work in progess.

EDIT TO ADD:
Did you FEED your denitrator unit.
Appears you did not.

[scolley]

I'm not even pretend I've got a clue what's going on here. But I'm posting just to show a bit of moral support, and to get myself subscribed so I can watch the progress on this! Good luck!

[tcyiu]

This Papst (19 watt draw) sql cage fan is what will push counter/flow air current in the shower tower.

Awesome. Someday, I might be able to do what you're doing.

Just a question re: the squirrel cage. By pushing that much air past the trickle filter, isn't there going to be a lot of evaporation??

I don't mean to overcomplicate things, but what do you think of integrating a condensation tower to capture some of the moisture?

Tim

[salth20]

Rock, I believe the theory is sound. I also think you will have a very efficient denitrator when you are done, and your results should be excellent with the vodka feedings. Happy bacteria work harder :D!
I never fed my denitrator directly, but I understand that the bacteria don't require the sugar input, it just makes them more efficient.
Scolley, IIRC, plants like to take up NH4 as a source of food. There is a relationship between NH4 and CO2. An increase in one requires an increase in the other. With your plants taking up waste directly, vs. the bacteria in the nitrogen cycle converting it to NO3, I would think your levels of nitrate would be fairly low. Plants will utilize NO3, but prefer NH4 because of the work required to metabolize it.
Sometimes I wish I would have studied harder in Biology and Chemistry classes! :p

[RockHound]

I'm not even pretend I've got a clue what's going on here. But I'm posting just to show a bit of moral support, and to get myself subscribed so I can watch the progress on this! Good luck!

Scolley, you are way way way to modest.;)
You don't design/build/filter/stock optimal tanks like yours.
As in this thread by you:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58151
Without knowing whats "going on".:p

Your "moral" support is much appreciated.:D

[RockHound]

Awesome. Someday, I might be able to do what you're doing. Just a question re: the squirrel cage. By pushing that much air past the trickle filter, isn't there going to be a lot of evaporation?? I don't mean to overcomplicate things, but what do you think of integrating a condensation tower to capture some of the moisture? Tim


It will be interesting to see how much water is driven/evaporates out, daily.
If it is a significant amount.
I will simply trickle in an equal amount of fresh water, a day.
Rather than try to catch/recycle condensation.

[RockHound]

Rock, I believe the theory is sound. I also think you will have a very efficient denitrator when you are done, and your results should be excellent with the vodka feedings. Happy bacteria work harder :D!

Methanol, ethanol, acetic or citric acid are the most inexpensive chemical carbon sources.
Sewage plant peaple tell me the highest growth rate is found when using methanol, ethanol, or acetic acid.

Methanol (wood alcohol):(
Acetic acid (white vinegar):(
Ethanol (vodka);)

That way, I can have a sip, to.:D

[salth20]

Scolley, you are way way way to modest.;)
You don't design/build/filter/stock optimal tanks like yours.
As in this thread by you:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58151
Without knowing whats "going on".:p

Your "moral" support is much appreciated.:D
As usual, I have opened mouth and exchanged feet. Rock, thanks for posting that thread. Keep us posted on your Denitra beta 1.0 Scolley, You ARE way too modest. A beautiful tank. I can only hope to have a tank as nice as that someday. Abosolutely incredible!

[salth20]

Rock, scolley, others,
I'm 11 days into having the denitrator turned down to about 120 drops per minute. I started at 25ppm on nitrate. Today, the test did not even show a hint of color. It has been steadily declining over the last few days. I've got 4 corys, a BN, and 6 rummy nose in there now, so the load is light. I'm finding the same effect on fresh water I saw when keeping marines: denitrators do have an effect on the water quality, and it seems to be a positive one. The tank was set up 2-1, and I started cycling it 2-8. I ran the denitrator wide open the whole time it was cycling to feed it, and cut the flow on 3-2, after I began to show nitrate. I'm going to keep monitoring the water quality closely, but this compares to my notes from years ago when I tried a Thiel-Aqua-Tech denitrator for the first time on my then GF tank. It was a very simple 3" acrylic tube, a coil inside (and not very long) no media, and two barbs on top. It did bring nitrates down some... my notes show from a fairly steady 100ppm to 50ppm with no change to the maintenance schedule or bio load. (In retrospect, that is a primary reason we didn't make it... I'm real detail oriented, she isn't, thus the high nitrate reading in her tank, and the denitrator tryout. At least the fish made it!) That was the seed for the idea to make a larger unit with media, and a longer transit time through the unit... plus my version could still be built today for about 35.00.

[dandestroy]

This is really interesting.

I've look into this a while ago, but never came up with the full idea like this.

I believe that the reason why people don't use these in the discus world is because these units can achieve at best 5ppm of nitrate, while regular water change on a BB tank can bring it down near 0 way more easily.

If one system was to be made to produce 0 ppm, I would definitively look into it.

I will watch this tread closely to get your full report on all this.

[RockHound]

It's all setting in the garage, not togather yet.
But, it will get done.
Then, we will see what it does.

LOL, I discovered, when you retire.
You become a day care center for grandchildren.:p
Not to mention, a jack of all trades.

Because your children assume you have time to gladly:
Help out framing in the kids new garage.
Fix their leaky plumbing.
Help install the kids new hot tub.
Help put in the kids new lawn.
The list is near endless from that perspective alone.:o

Then, there is the HoneyDo list to deal with.
(because she isn't retired yet & I am)
Install new kitchen counter tops.
Install new dishwasher & a trash compactor.
Tear out the old wooden decking.
Pour a concrete patio.
Etc, Etc....................:o

I'm GLAD trout season opens soon.
I need a 2 week vacation.

[balha]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/anammoxboifiltercopy-1.jpg


what is the trickle tower?

it is e little confusing because on the net degassing tower = trickle tower

[Graham]

Hi The nitrifying bacteria that we rely on to oxidize the ammonia that our fish produce from eating and just living for that matter to Nitrite and then the other nitrifers that oxidize the nitrite/NO2 to Nitrate/NO3 all use large amounts of O2 to do that job.

A Trickle Tower, or bio-wheels allows water to trickle down over biomedia in a thin film...this gives the water a chance to gain maxinium amount of O2 levels. The bacteria work better.

A TT is just basically a chamber, the bigger the better, to house bio-media and allow water to trickle over it. Sumps are a great place to build one.

De-nitrification unit do just the opposite and strip O2

G

[balha]

what is the difference between degassing tower and the trickle tower (in the picture ) ?

my understanding is that the degassing filter is a like bakki filter (used in pond). example : http://thegab.org/Articles/images/FilterSump.jpg

the trickle filtre ??? how it's made ?

[Graham]

A TT generally has a lower flow rate, providing a longer dwell time with the bio-media. This will off gas CO2 and heavily aerate the water. A very large pond TT will look after nitrate....aquarium ones are nitrate factories


A Bakki, the way Momotaro designed it, uses massive water flow, probably 3 to 4 times what would be put through a TT and a highly porous ceramic media called ''bacteria house'' going through 3 or 4 trays. This water shear affect and extreme high O2 does seem to off gas nitrogen, lets alone aerate the water. They also cycle very quickly.