Not sure if this is a silly question...

[grahamu]

Hi all,

I've started purchasing the equipment for my first discus tank. The 90 gal aquarium/base/canopy are on order and I should have them in a few weeks. However, I already have alot of the equipment including my Eheim filter and heaters.

Rather than wait until I have the full set-up to start a fishless cycle of the filter is there any reason that I couldn't hook up the heaters and filters to a plastic container and start cycling with that?

The plastic container might only be 20-30 gals rather than my aquarium's 90 gal but it should at least give the filter media a chance to start to devlop some bacteria. Then I can move it across to the proper aquarium when it arrives.

Thoughts/comments?

Thanks,
Graham

[dishpanhands]

sounds like a great idea..

[kaceyo]

That'll work. I used to cycle trickle filters by running the water out of the bottom (sump) and back into the top (trickle tower) with a total of about 10gals of water. Add enough ammonia (clear ammonia from grocery store) to bring it up to 5ppm, then monitor the ammonia. As soon as it drops to 0, start feeding the filter ammonia daily and monitor nitrites. Once they rise and then drop to 0, your filter is fully cycled and will handle a fairly large population of fish. Takes from 3 to 6 weeks to fully cycle.

Kacey

[grahamu]

Thanks Kacey.

On the subject of fishless cycling, there seems to be several (conflicting?) approaches.

One is as you outlined Kacey i.e. add sufficient ammonia to get to 5ppm and then don't add more until the level starts to drop.

The other approach is to record how much you need to add to get to 5ppm and then add that again every day until the nitrite appears and then cut back to half the amount every day.

I would have thought the second approach is going to push the ammonia level sky high since there is going to be a week or more before it starts to get converted to nitrite. Couldn't that mean the ammonia level could peak at 30+ ppm?

Thanks,
Graham

[kaceyo]

Graham,
I don't see any benifit to adding ammonia every day before the filter is cycled. Once it's cycled and the ammo level starts to drop, yes, to keep the bacteria from dying off before fish go into the system.
It can take alot longer than a week for the ammonia level to start dropping and I agree that adding it daily would push the level way too high.

Kacey

[RockHound]

Bacteria known as “Nitrifiers” need free or dissolved oxygen to perform their work.
It requires approximately 4.6 pounds of oxygen for every pound of ammonia converted to nitrate.

Secondly, those bacteria need a large surface area to colonize, within the water-flow.

Thirdly, besides oxygen, they require “food” I.,E., Ammonia, etc.

Fourth, Water temperature affects the rate of nitrification.
Comfortable room temperatures work fine.
Nitrification reaches maximum rates at temperatures between 86oF and 95oF.

At temperatures of 104oF and higher, nitrification rates fall to near zero.
The same holds true for water @ very cold temperatures.

Bacteria populations start small, dependent on their conditions.
Populations increase, based on what you provide them with.

To “cycle” stored water, you need to provide bacteria.
With what they need to grow & thrive.

Think big SPONGE FILTER.

Or, a WET/DRY TRICKLE FILTER
(or, both)

But, do not overfeed them.
As, bio-filters are in fact NITRATE factories.
No sense producing nitrates in fresh water.
You intend to add to a new aquarium system.

NOW, THE IMPORTANT PART:

Seed your new system filters:
With that used sponge filter, and/or bio-media.
(or, both)
Which, will give you a huge head start.
Getting your new aquarium & filters fully cycled.

[grahamu]

Many thanks Kacey and RockHound for your advice. I have managed a small amount of gravel from an established aquarium to help kick start the cycling and will make sure I don't let the ammonia get to more than 5ppm.

Graham

[kaceyo]

To “cycle” stored water, you need to provide bacteria.
With what they need to grow & thrive..

Actually you don't cycle stored water, only the filter. The water used to cycle the filter should be dumped out and replaced with fresh aged water. All you need to do to stored water is age it for 24hrs while circulating it with a pump or air stone in order to de-gass, oxygenate, and bring it to the proper temp. Also add a chlorine/chloramine detoxifier if needed.

Kacey

[Graham]

Graham as Kacey mentioned you wouldn't keep adding NH3...if the levels start to get too high then it actaully hinders the bio-film and will slow the rate of colonization

Graham

[grahamu]

Thanks Kacey, yes, once my aquarium arrives in a week or two I will be simply shifting the (hopefuly partially cycled) filter across and putting completely new water into the aqurium (plus amonia to keep the cycling going).

Thanks Graham - I have just started the cycling this afternoon. I am right now adding ammonia bit at a time until I get to 5ppm (and will then be keeping it there).

Graham

[RockHound]

Actually you don't cycle stored water, only the filter. The water used to cycle the filter should be dumped out and replaced with fresh aged water. All you need to do to stored water is age it for 24hrs while circulating it with a pump or air stone in order to de-gass, oxygenate, and bring it to the proper temp. Also add a chlorine/chloramine detoxifier if needed.

Kacey

LOL, agree 100%

I did not state it very well.;)
Certainly, you do not want nitrate laden water.:(
You want the cycled filter material.