Heckels hideing

[blue acara]

Since adding more wood to the Heckel tank they have become extremely shy and skittish, almost never coming out.

Pic of the tank as of now
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m72/blueacara/j6.jpg

They were shy before but now it is very frustrating as I almost never see them. They are in good health as far as I can tell.
They have been like this for the 2 months since the addition of the wood and show no improvement. I wish Id have left the tank as it was...


Any tips/thoughts on this?

[Tropical Haven]

The only thing I could say is put the tank back the way it was and maybe things will get back to normal.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
Unfortunately by giving them so many places to hide they are using what you gave them... In time...They'll probably come out more... but you may want to change your layout and lighting scheme..

Maybe one central piece of driftwood...and instead of submerged wood.. try using branches that are along the waters surface.

The tanks lighting seems very dim...Is that a small central light? and dark on both sides of the tank? if it is... its doubtful they'll hang in the middle of the light.....maybe a more diffuse general lighting over the tank top.

hth,
al

[Apistomaster]

Just add more lighting. The whole tank should be lit. There should be enough light to grow some plants. Provide about 1 watt per gal.(for lack of a better way to measure) and some floating plants to use that light. Light both the front and back halves. Some algae will grow so include a species of Ancistrus catfish to help control it. Consider Ancistrus sp. L183, a pretty black water pleco species.
Your Heckels will then be always out and about the whole tank even though they have plenty of places to hide. They need to have the cover in order to feel secure.
We sometimes take the biotope thing too far. They have become aquarium specimens so we have to treat them accordingly. There is obviously no point in keeping them if they can't be seen. That is not why we keep discus. Heckels are more shy than other discus by nature. They will have panic attacks and dash for cover for what may seem senseless reasons but they cannot help themselves. They are just doing what comes naturally. It is rewarded by the times they take frozen blood worms out of your fingers. In fact, you can use feeding to your advantage. I have a method that forces them to become used to receiving food in the front of the aquarium. I place frozen blood worms in a open mesh bag and hang it from the top in the front. The bag is from the ceramic biomedia sold for AquaClear filters. I leave one piece of the media in the bag for weight. The discus will congregate around the bag and feed from it. If you continue to do this they will eventually even hang around the empty bag.
That is a hint they would like to be fed.
Another thing that will work is to place a small shallow casserole dish in the front of the tank. Use this dish to feed them pellet foods. Earthworm sticks slowly come apart and the discus may graze for hours in and around the dish. It is also a good way to feed them live black worms. Get them used to you and your hands in their tank by placing the food in dish by hand or baster. All of this is aimed at a way to condition them to associate you with food. It is the shortest best way to tame them.
I would hate to see them have to go back to the more stressful environment of a nearly bare aquarium.
You fellow pleco keepers/breeders have already accepted the fact you will be seeing your fish only occasionally and know it is necessary to get them to breed.

[Moon]

Mine were in a bb tank and used to hide behind the sponge filters. It took a few months for them to get used to the set up. Now they quite happily roam around the tank and take food from my hands.
Heckels need a lot of patience from the owners. I am sure your's will come around.

[aquagal]

My fish have done the EXACT same thing. All I have in the tank is two pieces of driftwood and a sand substrate. They are so skittish ard hide constantly behind the driftwood. I know I could remove, but I feel bad leaving them in such a sparce environment.

I am hopeful they will become more bold as they reach adulthood...they are about 7-8 months now.

[blue acara]

Thanks for the advice all. The light is 11 watts, It is brighter in the tank than the picture shows. I will try slowly increasing it. Using food to tame them is a good idea I need to acquire a open mesh bag of some sort.

My frustration come from the fact that they were doing so well as soon as I got them, then I messed the tank around and made them afraid of me. I don't think removing any of the wood would help at this point, it would just disturb them and confirm that I am a possible danger to them. I need to be seen as the 'food man' again.

Over the last 24 hours I have seen some improvement, as I type I can see 6/7 of them are out.

[Apistomaster]

The Heckels will remain very true to their wild behavior and it does not get a lot better with time. One of the easiest and a proven method is to spend time around them. That is one of the reasons I suggest doing some hand feeding or the other methods I mentioned. It is to give you a reason to spend time around them so that they begin to associate you with good things.
They will be very out going and difficult to spook for awhile and sometimes will have flight reactions for awhile. They will go through these periods no matter what. In many ways, it is the young fish that are the most tame. As they mature they become more cautious.
Not all that much difference than there is between a teenager and an adult human.
Even domestic discus have their bad days.

It really isn't necessary to slowly change the lighting. They will adapt to the new lighting well within 24 hours as much as they ever will. These fish are both delicate and tough. That statement may not make much sense but consider; they made it to your tank through some difficult times since being captured yet we still have to provide them with excellent water and environmental conditions to make them prosper in captivity.

[tacks]

Hi those are two very nce threads by Larry he covered a lot and some great ideas. I have Wilds but greens so they may be different but I was wondering do you have some schooling fish in the tank, such as cardinals? I have read that other fish may calm them down if they seem them out and about. Just an idea and I would certainly increase the lighting as Al stated take care Ed

[blue acara]

'These fish are both delicate and tough', that is a very good description.
I guess the high light will flush them out from their hiding place. I worry about how they reacted to high light before, dashing around the bottom of the tank.
I spend a fair amount of time around the tank when feeding, and they are fine until i move.

[pcsb23]

Is there any covering on the tank floor? A very thin layer of sand or very, very fine gravel (coarse sand) would stop any reflections.

[Apistomaster]

Blue Acara's has an ideal set up for the Heckels; fine white sand and wood work.
High light to me, means more than ~1 watt/gal for Heckels. Just barely enough to grow some plants. Staying true to biotope, the plants may only be floating types. They really like having partial overhead cover of floating plants.

I have kept a variety of fish in with my Heckels over the years. Dwarf Pike Cichlids, Pencilfish, Tetras, SA Dwarf Cichlids, Corydoras, Hypancistrus and Peckoltia species. I only have a pair of Apistogramma iniridae , 1- Ancistrus sp 3 and 5- Hypancistrus zebra with them now.
All of these fish made good tank mates. I just reduced the population as the discus grew larger.

[blue acara]

Yes there is white sand in there, the silver metal strip on the bottom of the tank hides it in the above photo. I have some duckweed growing in another tank I will add a large net full of that when upping the light. It grows easy+ fast and shades the light so it should be ideal.

[Apistomaster]

I really recommend that you choose a plant like Salvinia, watersprite or tropical Hornwort rather than introducing duckweed.

I consider duckweed a pest plant and it tends to make a mess of your tanks.