question about planted tank

[hrgilbe]

I'm gathering all the information needed to start my discus tank. Some told me that if I was planning on having a planted tank to use peat moss as part of the substrate. Is this right? and I was just wondering if it is convenient to add an undergravel filter in planted tanks?

thanks,
Ricky

[judy]

I like peat moss plates, because you can put them just wehre you will be putting the plants and the stuff does not float all over the place. Never use undergravel filters in planted tanks.

[fishgirl1]

Never use undergravel filters in planted tanks.

I have 3 tanks ALL have undergravel filters, one has a canister filter the other two have HOB filters AND ALL are planted. all the fish are happy and healthy. The plants are trying to take over the tanks.

I would have to say Do not use an undergravel filter alone!

[hrgilbe]

Thank you. I was planning on using it in combination with external filters.

Ricky

[judy]

The problem with UG filters is that mulm settles below the plastic grid and you cannot vac it up. Eventually, over time, it builds up and the water quality begins to suffer. Also, the plants will tend to root down through the plastic, so it becomes almost impossible to re-landscape, if you're like me and you like to move things around occasionally.
There's also been discussion over the years about the actual effectiveness of UG filters, and many people suggest if you do use them, you should reverse the powerhead flow so water is forced down through the uptake tube, into the UG filter area and it diffuses upward through the gravel-- supposedly this is better for the plants' roots. But this can result in increased levels of DOCs (dissolved organic compounds) in tank water, and while community tanks may not mind that, discus are fussy about DOCs.
Finally, UG filters are designed for use with coarse gravel only. If you use peat plates, sand, fluorite or eco complete, the UG filter will be unable to function as intended.

[GrillMaster]

I cant believe UG filters are still on the market. The last thing you want is excess food and waste being sucked thru the gravel to just sit on the bottom of the tank where you cant get to it.

tc
Mark

[pcsb23]

I know of one or two people that still use UGF's. As and when you come to remove one, just take a look at the gunge that has collected below it.

[Dissident]

The #1 problem with UG and plants is that after time plants like Swords and crypts (anything that is a primary root feeder) will root into the filter reducing the effectiveness of the filter and is a PITA to move plants without making a mess in the tank.

I'm with Mark 100% on this one:

I cant believe UG filters are still on the market.

If you are not injecting CO2 into the tank HOB filters are fine. I did it for a year or so on my first planted tank, but there is a big difference once you start adding CO2, DIY or pressurized. You will want to go canister at that point.

I personally not a fan of peat moss, it is just messy and after time it will just mix in with the rest of the substrate if you move plants. Just pick a good one-shot substrate and your life will be a lot happier IMO.

I can only imagine peat + UGF = nightmare in any tank.

[vivalajon96]

i justs et up a planted 75g. i used regualar gravel approx 50lbs mixed in with 40lbs of flourite gravel. this flourite gravel is black in color and is cultured with anerobic bacteria similar to that in aragonite sand in salt water tanks. the bacteria acts as a natural fertilizer by breaking down fish by products into nutrients for your plants. this in combination with a good flourescent compact or halide light system should provide enough light and nutrients to make your plants grow like crazy. i was thinking about a c02 system but my lfs said with my light and flourite it was not neccessary, and i have seen nothing but good results.

[scolley]

Some told me that if I was planning on having a planted tank to use peat moss as part of the substrate. Is this right?
Ricky - if you spread a small amount of peat (I'm talking just a tiny thin, thin sprinkling here) under your substrate, it will help it establish a proper bacteriological colony. A little, little bit goes a long way.

Bacteria are apparently good at the rabbit imitation - they multiply. ;) Doesn't take much. Nor is it required. But it can help.

[Darrell Ward]

I know of one or two people that still use UGF's. As and when you come to remove one, just take a look at the gunge that has collected below it.

You're right about that. The only UFG I ever used was on a 55 gal. years ago. When I broke that tank down, what a nasty mess under that thing! It was no wonder I never had great water quality in that tank. I immediately threw those filter plates in the garbage.

[Apistomaster]

I would be more specific about the type of peat moss that is being advocated here. Also regardless of what form of peat, be it fibrous or particulates, it seems like it would be best to use peat in a pot where the substrate can be controlled than to place a layer across the entire bottom of a tank. In the life time of a given aquarium set up, all substrate materials become mixed through the normal actions of fish and aquarium maintenance. I consider using complicated layered substrates are best left to experimental set up rather than a long term discus display tank. More things can go wrong than right in these types of aquariums; where would you rather have problems? In an experimental aquarium or your discus show tank?

A word about UGF. The crud that is seen underneath the plant is an end result of the nitrification cycle. One of the end products are mineralized and largely inert materials. These happen in all filtered aquariums. Those of you who use wet/dry filters easily see the accumulation of the mineralized by products on the bottom of your sumps. It is just easier to remove from there. But regardless of the biological filter design these materials are always formed. It makes up a portion of the stuff pulled from the substrate whenever you hydrovac your substrate.
Undergravel filters are just another version of biological filtration. Perhaps not the best way to filter a tank but it does not negate the fact that it does work but it works best in tanks with lower bio-loads and large rooted plants are best potted so their roots don't grow under the plates although this does no harm. All large plants can grow massive root systems, some can extend to every corner of the tank. If you are the type who like to redecorate once in awhile then pot those show plants.
The ideal gradation of particles for an under gravel is not coarse gravel but a substrate similar to EcoComplete or a mix of gravel/Flourite with a coarse sand. Avoid fine sands or coarse gravels. I am not endorsing UGF filters but only trying to point out that they are a type of biological filter that can do the job they're designed for. They were defintely hyped when they came out and were claimed to do more and do it better than any other design of filter. This was, of course, not true.

[scolley]

Also regardless of what form of peat, be it fibrous or particulates, it seems like it would be best to use peat in a pot where the substrate can be controlled than to place a layer across the entire bottom of a tank.I would agree if this was a "layer" Larry. Maybe I should have been more clear.

I'm talking about a "dusting" so thin you can see through it, and does not cover the glass in most places. We are talking less than a fine sprinkling here.

All it does is a small bacterial seeding. Please don't think "layer". Think "dust".