Help: want to start discus tank but have many specific questions

[cholile]

I've had an african cichlid tank for some time and want to try out a discus tank but am overwhelmed by having to try and learn a whole other body of information. At least with my experience I can be pretty specific about what I want.

Thank you in advance for taking time to answer my questions!

1. Tank Size: What are the dimensions of the smallest tank I can properly house about 6 red melon discus + a group of tetras + one pleco + plants in?

2. PH: As I understand it, there's a place not too far from me, Hans Discus, that breeds discus with a ph of neutral or even above that. Does that make sense?

3. Tetras: If I bought fish which are used to harder water (my preference because water out of the tap is that) can I house neons in that tank?

4. Plecos: Any particular recommendations for plecos? I have BN in my tank and find them very unattractive but I like their size and they do a great job cleaning the tank of algae.

5a. Plants: Is there any good place I can easily search through different plants which could work in a discus tank to see what they look like and learn about them? I'd be interested in those which are not incredibly demanding to take care of.

5b. As an example of a few plants I like, if you look in the "your tanks" section on cichlid forum (http://cichlid-forum.com/tanks/) and do a search for the tank with the title "300 gallon planted South American" you'll see a planted tank (sorry, there's no way to link to it directly) I like the 'grass' on the bottom and the large bush on the left. What are they called and could they work in my tank?

6. Filtration: Is there anything in particular I need to know about filtering a discus tank that's different from a malawi tank? I know the water needs to be very clean and stable.

7. Substrate: Is this eco-complete for planted tanks unquestionably what I want to use for the tank? If not, what else is highly recommended (even if somehow a bare bottom could work with plants, while I know it makes it easier to maintain a discus tank I want some substrate, even if it is very minimal).

8. Anything else? I'll figure out lights later and of course realize I need a heater. What, if anything, else do I need to consider?

[White Worm]

I've had an african cichlid tank for some time and want to try out a discus tank but am overwhelmed by having to try and learn a whole other body of information. At least with my experience I can be pretty specific about what I want.

Thank you in advance for taking time to answer my questions!

1. Tank Size: What are the dimensions of the smallest tank I can properly house about 6 red melon discus + a group of tetras + one pleco + plants in?
55-75g
2. PH: As I understand it, there's a place not too far from me, Hans Discus, that breeds discus with a ph of neutral or even above that. Does that make sense?
YES, he should be able to give you advice on pH
3. Tetras: If I bought fish which are used to harder water (my preference because water out of the tap is that) can I house neons in that tank?
Neons dont do as well at discus temps, go with cardinals

4. Plecos: Any particular recommendations for plecos? I have BN in my tank and find them very unattractive but I like their size and they do a great job cleaning the tank of algae.
BN should do fine
5a. Plants: Is there any good place I can easily search through different plants which could work in a discus tank to see what they look like and learn about them? I'd be interested in those which are not incredibly demanding to take care of.
Planted section here or you could visit some plant forums like plantedtank.net
5b. As an example of a few plants I like, if you look in the "your tanks" section on cichlid forum (http://cichlid-forum.com/tanks/) and do a search for the tank with the title "300 gallon planted South American" you'll see a planted tank (sorry, there's no way to link to it directly) I like the 'grass' on the bottom and the large bush on the left. What are they called and could they work in my tank?
There are many foreground plants to choose from and swords do well in discus tanks in substrate or even pots.
6. Filtration: Is there anything in particular I need to know about filtering a discus tank that's different from a malawi tank? I know the water needs to be very clean and stable.
lots of clean water and a stable ph. I like a canister type filter that is rated 2x my tank.
7. Substrate: Is this eco-complete for planted tanks unquestionably what I want to use for the tank? If not, what else is highly recommended (even if somehow a bare bottom could work with plants, while I know it makes it easier to maintain a discus tank I want some substrate, even if it is very minimal).
With adult discus, you could go planted. Flourite, sand, ADA, etc and others could be used.
8. Anything else? I'll figure out lights later and of course realize I need a heater. What, if anything, else do I need to consider?
Buy all fish from same person, try to get same size and quality and at the same time. Lots of clean water, varied diet of dry, pellet, live and frozen foods and clean water and its not as hard as you might think.

[Tropical Haven]

The smallest tank that I would recommend for 6 discus is a 55 gallon, and PH is not a concern at all as long as it is stable. I keep all of my fish in a PH of 8.6

[cholile]

Thanks. So helpful.

So is a 55G for the water volume, or is it a footprint issue? If I had a tank which was 36" long but tall is that ok, or is a 48" length necessary?

If I wanted a pleco other than a BN what would you recommend and why?

[aquagal]

BN plecos are typically recommend because they are great cleaners, stay small, and don't mess w/ the discus slime coat. I know others will keep different types of plecos successfully w/ discus, the BN are just the best in my opinion.

[Harriett]

Thanks. So helpful.

So is a 55G for the water volume, or is it a footprint issue? If I had a tank which was 36" long but tall is that ok, or is a 48" length necessary?

If I wanted a pleco other than a BN what would you recommend and why?

Both water volume AND footprint come into play here. Discus as you can tell from the responses you've gotten so far, do best given at around 10g per adult fish. They seem to do better with more 'cruising room' so a longer tank tends to be more conducive to allowing for that natural behavior. I do think a 36" length would work ok. THere are some other smaller plecos but bristlenose seem to be the most energetic about cleaning the glass of algae. There are the regular brown ones that are actually mottled or patterned tan and brown, an albino form, and long finned of both varieties that are more dramatic looking. In terms of function, they are great; in terms of form, there are certainly other nicer looking dwarf plecos that may not perform as well. Depends what you want them for, I suppose. Do some research on the fish and catfish sites...

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I've had an african cichlid tank for some time and want to try out a discus tank but am overwhelmed by having to try and learn a whole other body of information. "
Permit me this response:
Um, frankly, if you aren't interested and willing to learn this "whole other body of information", discus may NOT be the best fish to buy because they do require specific and unique care to be a successful hobby....I have Africans also and discus take WAY MORE time, committment, and care to raise well and keep healthy. THat's just how it is. Since they are also a relatively expensive investment, you might want to either rethink or be more open to learning the basics. I do NOT want to be disrespectful or snotty I assure you, but I'm being straight up here.
Through some dedicated research on this site you could easily get up to speed to get started and you would have back up if you run into issues. You stand to get more responsive feedback I assume, on simply, if you willing to do the initial work to learn about discus....
Harriett
That's all I got. Best of luck to you!
Harriett



Best regards
Harriett

[RickMay1]

#1. For what you want, 6 discus, tetras, plecos and plants plus soil, the minimum tank size I’d try is 75g. the rule of thumb is 10 gallons per adult discus.

#2,3 PH, everything you’ve herd about discus and ph is garbage, in short, don’t worry about discus and PH, it does not matter. Discus are fine in just about any PH.

#4. BN plecos are the preferred pleco

#5 Plants? Sorry can’t help ya. Other than you need plants that do well in high temps like 82-88f range.

#6 this is the Key point behind successful discus keep and mad scientist approach to sustain life in bad conditions. Discus need clean water, the cleaner the better, and I’m not talking “it looks clean” it needs to be really clean. This is why breeders don’t keep their breeding fish in a planted tank, they are in bare bottom tanks with a sponge filter, and they do lots of water changes. Regardless if you want to breed discus or just keep discus, you have got to change lots of water. Water changes should be your primary form of keeping your water clean.

# 7 cant help ya, I don’t know.

#8 Heaters are prone to fail and they usually fail on, instead of going for one heater with enough wattage to heat the tank, get two heaters at half the wattage needed. That way WHEN one fails you should be able to catch it before you have fish soup.

[happygirl65]

One more suggestion if you plan to go planted is to try planted without discus for a while and decide if you like it or not. It is also a huge body of information to assimilate, control algae etc plus it can make keeping the tank really clean a challenge. Personally I wanted both but decided to get the plant thing down and experimented with it for a year before I felt like I could handle both discus and plants at the same time.

Best of luck to you, it can be done, many do. :) It pays to do your homework far in advance though so good job as it appears that is exactly what you are doing. :)

[calihawker]

I absolutely agree with happygirl. I started out going from reef with almost no prior experience in fresh water and the smartest thing i did by far was getting the planted thing down first. It's been nearly a year since I started and I still don't have discus yet. (soon:D)

Even though the planted thing seems daunting, don't let it scare you off. The rewards in asthetics are well worth it!

Steve

[cholile]

Thanks for all the helpful replies:

Harriet: I appreciate your response a lot. If I find out it really is as daunting as many describe I probably will back off of it. I've been under the impression that it really isn't as challenging as people make it sound, especially if you have some sense of how to care for fish generally (I do given all the months I've spent learning about african cichlids).

I plan to have an automatic water changer so that between 20-100% is changed daily, proper filtration, and buy all six from a reputable breeder so that I am getting quality and healthy discus. no inappropriate tankmates and the right temperature. My impression was that if you keep the water crystal clear, you filtrate properly, and you buy healthy discus from the start it really is not that challenging.

If this is wrong then I would definitely reconsider getting discus (by the way, no plans on starting a tank any time soon. just in the very early planning stages right now).


Happy Girl and Calihawker: what is it that makes it so challenging to deal with plants and discus at the same time?

[happygirl65]

Great question! :)
In my experience the challenge is in learning both at the same time. It is kind of hard to describe but basically in the beginning of every planted tank there are algae issues no matter whether you go low tech or high tech and you have to get the balance just right with lighting levels, time, fertilizers, frequency of water changes, temp etc. There can be a lot of rearranging of plants which icks up the water etc. Adding CO2 and other fertilizers and playing around with everything is a bit like running a science experiment with things changing contantly until you strike the right balance.

Discus are also large waste producers so adding them in the beginning of a plant tank that is not already balanced is asking for a large algae outbreak. It can be difficult to get all the food vaccuumed up after a feeding if you overfeed and that is just what I can think of off the top of my head.

You certainly can do it, I just feel from my own experience that there was so much to learn in order to get the planted tank settled out at the start that I was glad I didnt have to worry about doing daily water changes and stressing my fish with the constantly changing conditions.

If you want to do them both at the same time, you can plant your main tank and grow out some smaller discus in a barebottom tank until they are 4 inches. :) Otherwise I recommend planting the tank first (not suggesting you wait for a year but you will see what I mean when you get started) then wait until everything is balanced and the majority of your algae is gone. :)

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Hi cholile :D

You have gotten some excellent advice, although would like to put my opinion & experience in;

IMO Discus are a chellenge, although, people talk about them as though they are stressing. Settle down, sit back, relax & sock up some fresh air.

You can have great quality Discus/Plants, with the right type of setup.

Wether it be drip, over head, cannister, sponge etc...filtration. Planning is awesome, I highly recommend it. Good water quality is highly recommended, although is also overly exagerated if you aren't entering any competition any time soon & breeding or already large discus. I do w/c once a week 30-50%

Plants, Im not an expert, although will give you some of my exp. with Discus, easy to care for plants are the way, no need for CO2 units & extras-as will get sufficent feed from waste. I have found Anubias(can get large), Val, Crypts(in pots-dug in), Amazon Swords(Dwarf prob.better for small tanks) & Im sure there are many other hardy ones. Some of the plants mentioned are seseptible to algea-Anubias,Amazon although with low level light this can be sustained.

What others have said with plants is excellent & if you are thinking like a plant freak, heated bottom-soil sub-fine sub-fierts-Co2 etc...I would take there opinions into account.

Occupants such as BN are good too control algea, although I preffer the Royal Whiptail but it does take its time. Cory's are another fish that can help with uneaten food & just looks different. I keep albinos in my tanks.

Heater is upto your preferance, I would place 2 in anything bigger than a 3fter, same size 1 at either end for even distribution, & so not to counter each other. I can't afford the more expensive 1's & go for the cheaper although these tend not to be fully submersible, although do a fantastic job. I would recommend excellent 1's though if you can.

Hope the journey goes well. Ask & keep asking & you shal not go wrong!

Regards Armandi ;)

[happygirl65]

Armandi makes a good point. It doesn't have to be as complicated as we like to make it sometimes. (I always make thing harder than they need to be on myself)

If you go with low light/lowtech and plants you can do very well without a lot of fuss, just some root tabs on the root feeders just make sure you keep your lighting to 1.7 or less. I would still recommend planting it and getting it settled before adding discus though, give it about 3 months or so.

Planning is everything! I am sure you will do fine. :) Besides you have a great resource such as this board for help. and the best thing is that you can listen to a variety of opinions, take what works for you and leave what doesn't. ;)

Best of luck to you.