What's "bio-spira" true successor? Tetra safestart or Dr Tim's "One and Only"?

[waters10]

Hello all.

My first post to this board with this account! I "tried" to set up a discus back in 2002, but my fishless cycle didn't work out and frustration plus external factors made me deactivate my 90 gallon tank, without ever having a fish on it. I posted on this board with a different account by then. And for the record, I kept discus almost 10 years ago, but not very succesfully ...

Now I'm getting ready to try it again. But instead of going the regular fishless cycle route, I wanted to try something similar to bio-spira. I guess my timing is bad, cause bio-spira has been just discontinued and the new products that are replacing it, are not battle tested and very few user experiences around.

So, has anyone tried either the new Tetra Safestart? This is the product that Marineland is replacing bio-spira with. It's tetra safestart for freshwater and instant-ocean bio-spira for salt water.

What about DrTim's "One and Only"? This is the product that Dr Tim Hovanec, the creator of biospira, is releasing to the market after leaving marineland and starting his own company. Drsfostersmith carries this product.

My plan is to use one of these products, feed ammonia for about a week or so, and add 4-8 juvies (2.5 to 3.5 inches) from the same source (Cary Grant, which is local to me). Since my bioload is rather small for a 80 gallon tank, I could even try to put one of these products and fish immediately, but I'll take the safe road and wait a week, feeding pure ammonia to the bacteria.

The tank will be bare bottom, with 2-3 driftwood pieces.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[sophie68]

Hello,

I know that Bio Spira, albeit expensive, really does work. I have used it many times. I can still find it at my local supplier (elmersaquarium.com). I hope that it is not being replaced by something else. I have heard of The One and Only product. It might be OK, I don't know. For some reason, I am not crazy about Tetra products in general. So....But I could be wrong here...
You might want to try to get Bio Spira, as that will work. It has always worked for me, provided it was kept in a cold environment and you refrigerate it as soon as you get it. Mind you, I have also heard that stores keep it on a shelf...So one has to wonder....?????? Make sure you turn your UV off, in case you have one, as it will deactivate the BS.

Good luck!!!
Sophie

[waters10]

Well, the tetra product is the "official" successor. A lot of people sent emails to marineland and they said the succesor is tetra safestart, since marineland and tetra are owned by the same company. They are saying that safestart doesn't have to be refrigerated (well, neither bio-spira, apparently. Putting in the fridge only extended its life).

I'll try to find the old bio-spira in my area. Good idea.

[sophie68]

Good luck!!!!

Sophie

[johnm]

sophie, are you from pittsburgh? I am familiar with elmers

[waters10]

I just receveid a "one and only" package from Drs Foster and Smith. I'll only use it after 4th of July. I'll post here my results.

Thanks

[RockHound]

You all are going to think I am crazy.

And, this is not available to all.

But, when I want to cycle a new tank & bio-filter system.

(and do not have cycled sponge filters, to jump start it with)

I stop by the local cattle feed lot.

And, push a 2 inch pvc pipe into the muck in the feed lot drainage ditch.
(taking the same as a small core sample)

Which I thump out & empty into a quart jar.

I them dump that sludge straight into the filter system sump.
(wet/dry trickle filter & sump w/500 gallon an hour tank exchange rate)

Once the system clears up, I feed it 5 ppm ammonia for a few weeks.

Feed lot drainage sludge has about every sort of hard core ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/fecal/urine eating bacteria in the world in it.

Not to mention Annomox bacteria.

Works like a champ, at least for me. :p

[Graham]

''...You all are going to think I am crazy....''

Yup

[RockHound]

''...You all are going to think I am crazy....''

Yup

That & things like it is what was used to jump start seed thousands of water & sewage treatment plants biofilter systems all over the world for going on 50 years, before they started using lab cultured bacteria.

[sophie68]

sophie, are you from pittsburgh? I am familiar with elmers

Hi,
I am from Aix-en-Provence (France) but I currently live in Philly, which is not far from Pittsburgh!!!

Sophie

[Don Trinko]

call me old fashioned but I put some small fish in the tank and feed them until the tank is cycled. I then remove them and add discus. I watch the amonia, nitrites closely and I have some Amaquel+ that I use if I get an amonia/nitrite spike. Don T.

[Apistomaster]

Hi rockhound,
I happen to think your method is as good or better than many others I've heard of.
I don't know where and how others think the OTC preparations were derived, but you obviously do.

[Graham]

Nothing like dumping organic pollution into your system to get it up and running...or how about butter milk and yeast, dead shrimp or fish, ....... you know you can pee in it also ...you can start all the sewage treatment plants you want by dumping crap in it...not much has to live in it afterward


Then we'll do 90% daily water changes to keep it clear of organics after we've polluted the **** out of it:bandana::rolleyes:


Ever hear ''if you build it, they'll come'' ...it applies to bacteria also

G

[MSD]

Okay, I'll admit it, I am a big fan of Graham's posts for their informational value. But I like the sarcastic retorts almost as much, Graham, you are a great poster!! :D

[Apistomaster]

Good natured sarcasm keeps things from becoming dull.
The very organic method of using feed lot run off isn't my first choice of method but it just points to the facts that there are numerable ways to hasten establishing a nitrogen cycle.
I never used fishless cycling. Usually just an already established filter and very few discus or less valuable fish are added to keep the process moving forward.

[waters10]

This is a late follow up.

I got the "One and Only" and started fishless cycle sometime in late July. Short answer: it didn't work.

Long answer:

I added to my 85 gallon after water was sitting for 3 days, with filter circulating water. I let the product setlle for about 6-8 hours and then added 4ppm of ammonia. Ammonia levels didn't go down at all, nitrite didn't go up and never got nitrates.

Ammonia went down after more than a month ... so I think it's safe to say the product had no effect then.

I didn't follow the instructions to the letter, since instructions tell you to add fish right away. So it might work if you're brave enough to do that and I spent some time trying to figure out If I did something wrong. The only thing might be the ammonia concentration I added in the beggining was too high.

So that's my experience with this product. If you want more details, let me know.

[waters10]

Oh, my cycle was completed and I finally got my first discus this week. It just took a lot longer than I wanted. But it was better than my previous experience with fishless cycle, which was basically 2 months with a static level of ammonia.

[trebor69]

I recently tried Seachem's 'Stability' LINKY (http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Stability.html)


My experience is that it didn't do much of anything. I started a new tank on Aug 1st and as of today I am still in the tail end of the 'nitrite spike'. So I am comin up on 7 weeks after using a product that claims you only need to use it for 7 days.

Seachem's Prime seems to be a great product but IMO Stability is a waste of money.

[Valik]

I think biospira was the only thing that actually truly ever worked. Everything other commercial cycling product is pretty much useless.

[Ed13]

Aren't these products dormant bacteria at best needing ammonia to feed them in order to work?
So they should not be used alone like bio-spira?

[waters10]

I think biospira was the only thing that actually truly ever worked. Everything other commercial cycling product is pretty much useless.
Honestly, I read a lot of reports for all kinds of products and I don't think there's a clear cut answer like certain product works and others don't. There's a lot of variables like the way people used, if it was refrigerated, etc.

In my case, I tried to follow best practices I gathered from different forums, but my result was not good. That doesn't mean the product cannot work on certain conditions. Maybe I should've added ammonia before adding the product. Maybe the ammonia concentration I added (4ppm) was too high. Maybe I should've waited more (or less), before adding ammonia ...

All I know is that fishless cycle is not something I want to try again soon.

[mikel]

Just use Bio-spira with 6-8 good rummy noses in a tank...then wait three days, and add all your discus. It always worked like a charm for me. I loved the stuff. mike

[Darrell Ward]

You all are going to think I am crazy.

And, this is not available to all.

But, when I want to cycle a new tank & bio-filter system.

(and do not have cycled sponge filters, to jump start it with)

I stop by the local cattle feed lot.

And, push a 2 inch pvc pipe into the muck in the feed lot drainage ditch.
(taking the same as a small core sample)

Which I thump out & empty into a quart jar.

I them dump that sludge straight into the filter system sump.
(wet/dry trickle filter & sump w/500 gallon an hour tank exchange rate)

Once the system clears up, I feed it 5 ppm ammonia for a few weeks.

Feed lot drainage sludge has about every sort of hard core ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/fecal/urine eating bacteria in the world in it.

Not to mention Annomox bacteria.

Works like a champ, at least for me. :p

I always just use bacteria from one of my own tanks. However, if you didn't have any other tanks to get it from, I think this idea would work fine. Ammonia eating bacteria is ammonia eating bacteria.:D By the way, I've driven past some of those feed lots out west, the smell is incredible. You can smell it for great distances. The people who work there must truly have cast iron stomachs!